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Digitized by the Internet Archive
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ROMAN
TRADITION
EXAMINED,
As it is urged as
INFALLIBLE
AGAINST
All Mens Senses, Reason, the Holy Scrip-
ture, the Tradition and Prefent Judg-
ment of the far greateft part of the
Univerial Church,
IN THE POINT OF
7RANSVBSTANTIATI0N.
In Anfwer to a Book called
A Rational Vifcourfe of Tranfubstantiation.
Printed in the Year, \6j6.
•■'
J J /
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I
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•'
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CO
^OMAJsC T%AT>1T10 3^
EXAMINED, be.
AMong many Books that lately came forth, of
fomewhat the like tendency , there is one cal-
led [ A Rational Difcourfe concerning Tranfub-
flantiation , in a Letter to a Perfon of Honour ,
from a Mafter of Arts of the Univerfity of Cambridge.]
Alas, for the unhappinefs of thofe Perfons of Honour that
have fuch Teachers and Counfellors as this i Could they
have no better? or would they not ? If they chofe them
their mifery is j uh\
The Title Paraphrafed is [ A Rational Difcourfe againfi
Senfe.^ But the ftrain of this, and abundance Written,
by Men of the like ingeny, tell us convincingly, that
while they difrruft all their Senfes, and would have all the
Worjd diitruft them, and deny them, they are lb con-
fident of their Thinking, Inventing, and Talking Faculties,
that they dare fet them in Battel againfb the Senfes of all
M inkind,andcheri(h ibme hopes to get the Victory. And
verily, it is a wonderful victory that fuch Mens Tongues
have got already, if all the Princes, Lords, Doctors, and
all other People that go for Papifts, do really believe
Tranfubftantiation . and if ibme be not in the right, who
think that there is not one heart)' and compleat Papift in
the World, unlets implicite Believers-may be called fuch,
who believe as the Church doth, though they know not
A 2 wh at j
(»)
what ; but that the Matters of the Game are but the Ma-
kers or Predicants of a Faith for others., which never
was their own, and that they generate but their like, e-
ven worldly diifemblers, and convert only Mens Tongues
by the power of the Sword, and not their Hearts by all
their Oratory. And Imuft confefs, that when I have
heard a prophane Swearer, Curler, Railer, Drunkard,
Whoremonger, plead for Tranfubftantiation, I have
thought of peaceable Melancthons words [ You Italians
maintain that Chrift is in the Sacrament ■> when you believe
not that he is in Heaven.^
But the devout words and confidence of this Mafler of
Arts maketh me think that he believeth himfelf, and
that diffembling is not the Art that he is Matter of ; but
though he be as he faith £ Non ignara mail ] yet he may
be Ipnarus mali^ ignorant of his Error and of the Mifchief
which he would do. Indeed if Men will needs believe
that Night is Day, and Day is Night, we might fatisfie
our felves with our companion for their weaknefs, with-
out any importunate publick contradiction $ but our cafe
with fuch Men as this, is fuch as prohibiteth fuch patient
filence : For, the fame Religion which teacheth them to
deny the Senses of Mankind, doth teach them to Extermi-
nate^ Bum, Excommunicate, and Damn all thofe that will
not do as they do, but will believe their Senfes $ andalfo
to depofe thofe Temporal Lords that will not extermi-
nate fuch from their Dominions.
Two things yet I rauft note, that make me doubt whe-
ther the Author befo honeft in his dealing as I could wifh
him, and as a Man that talketh of God and Jejw chrift
fhould be. i . That he fo blindly, or fraudulently ttateth
the Queftion. 2. That he taketh fo little notice of the
Books and Arguments that are Written againtthis Caufe,
as
(3)
as if they needed no Anfwer, when we fuppofe that they
have put the Error of Tranfubfhntiation fd far pad all ra-
tional doubt, that it is fcarce pofllble for a Man that hath
underftandingly, and ferioufly read them, to believe it :
It is but lately that a fmall Book, on that Subjeft, was
published by R. Baxter, Dedicated to the Duke of Lauder-
dale, called, £ Full andeajie fatisf action, which is the true
Religion, ~] \\ hich all the Papifts in the World can never
give a rational Anfwer to • and therefore this Man dare
fcarce take notice of fuch, left it fhould bring them to the
notice of his Reader. But doth he think that we muft
not know that his Book is Anfwered before it was Writ-
ten, becaufe he will take no notice of it ? or muft we
therefore repeat the fame things again ?
The Roman Article of Faith is, that £ There is a
change made of the whole finance of the Bread into the
Body of Chri'f, and of the whole fuhfiance of wine into his
Blood"] ib that our Controverfie with them hath two
parts, i. Whether after Confecration there be no lon-
ger Bread or wine ? 2 . Whether that which was Bread
and wine is then turned into the very Flejh and Blood of
Chriftt Now this Rational Difcourfer confoundeth thefe
together, and in his progress dealeth ib little with the
flrftpart, as if he were afraid that it lhould be taken no-
tice of.
The Reader muft farther note. 1 . That it is none of
our Controverfie \_whether the whole [ub (lance of the
Bread and wine he Relatively changed into the Reprefenta-
tive Flejh and Blood of Chrijl which he once had, and offer-
ed in Sacrifice for us on the Crofs, as the Lamb of Gid that
taleth away the fms of the world • For, this is our Do-
ctrine: ] But it is, whether there be a phyjical change of the
jrwjfance of the Bread and nine into the natural JubjUnce
'I
(A)
of the F/eJl) and Blood of Chrifi which is now glorified. «
2. That the Controverfie is not at all of the Real pre-
(eme of chrifts glorified Body, whether it be in this or that
place , or not ? but whether the B read and wine be chan-
ged into it?. For, many Protectants (Lutherans, and o-
thersj do prof efs that we have no certain clear Concepti-
on of the nature of a glorified Body 5 and confequently
as they cannot judge of the Locality and Prefence of a Spi-
rit, fo neither of the Locality and Prefence of a spiritual
Body: They know not whether the now prevailing
Phylolbphy be not true, that Light is a Body, and Solar
Light is the emanant fubftance of the Sun it felf, whofe
Center is in the Heavens : And if its very fubftance be (b
extenfive as to fill all the Air betwixt Heaven and Earth,
( and more, ) and if the Light of an hundred Candles can
be all together in one Room, they are uncertain what are
the Limits of Chrifts Spiritual Body, or whether it be
either of a more ignoble nature than the Sun, or of lcfs
extent : And moft of the Greek Fathers thought Spiritual
Bodies ( if not Spirits themfelves ) were Fire. And as
our Senfe or Reafon cannot tell us whether or no there be
now an Angel in this Room, fo neither can either of
them tell us whether Chrifts Spiritual Body be here : This
therefore they leave to God that knoweth it, and will
have to be no no part of the Controverfie.
1 . For the firft part, whether there be true Bread and
wine after Confecration^ as many others have fully proved
the affirmative, fo particularly the forefaid Author brief-
ly hath proved it pan: all rational denyal. 1. From the
S&nfes of all Mankind • an Argument fortified by twen-
ty lubordinate convincing Arguments againft the deny-
■ers of Senfe •, where the Papifts Anfwers are refuted.
•2. He hath proved the Contradictions of the Dodrine of
Tran-
Tranfubftantiation. 3. He hath fhewed that the Do-
ctrine of Tranfubftantiation afierteth one and thirty Mi-
racles, w'xxh twenty miraculous aggr av;i 'ions . and hath
fully proved from Scripture that thefe Miracles are fictiti-
ous. 4. He hath proved from many exprefs Texts of
Scripture, that it is Bread after the Conjecration. 5 . And
alio that the Scripture it ielf doth fully teach us to ex-
pound This is my Body, as we do, and not as the Papifts
do. 6. He proveth that the very nature of a Sicrament,
even as Aquinas defineth it, is inconfiftcnt with Tran-
fubftantiation. 7. And Laftly, he proveth the Novelty
ofyourDoftrine, and that the antient Writers werea-
gainftit; which Albertin'ts^Pet. Molina de Novil.Pa-
pifmi, the late Morning Leffures of the Nonconformists *•
gainft Popery, and many others have proved at large.
But thefe things our Difcourfer Rationally difjembleth, left
if he Ihould antwer them it would appear to be no Ratio-
nal Difiourfe. But let us hear what the Rationality is which
he pretendeth to. [
His Difcourfe confifteth of three Atfertions, and their
pretended Proof, and a fliort Anfwer to fome Scraps of
Objection.
Hisnrft Atfertionis, that [It is pofflle to the Omnipo-
tent Power of God, to change the fubfance of Bread and
wine into the fubflance of our blefjed Saviour's Body and
Blood.] And he faith,that [ This his Adverfaries generally
errant.] And yet, if he know what they fay, he knoweth
that they maintain that Tranfubftantiation is a Do&rine
of Contradictions, and that God cannot make two Con-
tradictories true. They eafily grant him that God can do
every thing which belongeth to Power to do : Though
we are not fond of his phrafe [ Omnipotent Powers ] no
more than of [ wife mfdom] or l/lrong Strength] or
art At
freat
< 6)
great Greatnefs,'] yet taking his meaning) we grant that
Omnipotency is never {tailed with difficulties : Though
God cannot lye, nor cannot hate goodnefs, nor love fin,
nor make Contradictions true^ that is not for want of Pow-
er, but becaufe he is perfect : He cannot be ignorant) or
evil • and he cannot chufe but be God.
I iuppofe that he taketh not Chrift's Body, though fpi-
ritual, to be meerly, or properly Spirit, or ( as they
/peak) immaterial h and fo that it is none of his meaning,
that God can turn Bread into immaterial spirit ; which
yet I would not have faid that he cannot do : But it is
turning one Body into another which he calleth Poffible.
And that God can do this by Appofition, or Union , adding
one Body to another, I cannot deny : But thefe follow-
ing Contradictions we take not for Poflibilities.
i . For one Bod) to be turned into another pre* exiftent, by
appofition, ( the Form of the changed Body ceafing, but
not the Matter; ) and yet that the pre- existent Body mould
not be increafed by the apportion, this is a Contradicti-
on. As in Numbers, for two to be added to ten, and yet
the Number be (till but ten, is a Contradiction : So for
all the Bread that is Confecrated to lofe only its Form,
and the Matter to be changed into the Body of Cktijt\ by
appofition, and yet Chrifts Body to be no bigge r,is a Con-
tradiction • unlefs fome pre-exiftent part of Chriits Body
vanilh, and it be diminiflied by lofs, as much as it receiv-
eth by appofition.
You fay, that h ConcoBion we our [elves turn Bread and
wine into Flejb and Blood daily: But note,that the Form
only of the Bread and wine ceafeth, and the Matter re-
ceiveth a new Form in us, and by appofition increafeth
our Fleih and Blood ; and that our bulk increafeth not al-
wa.y, is becaufe fome parts vanifh, as others are added ;
and
C7)
and being in a continual Flux or Mutation, we have lit-
tle, if any,of the fame Flefh and Blood this Year, that we
had the lair, or a few Years ago. And doth ChrirVs Bo-
dy thus change,and receive addition and diminution ? or,
doth it grow bigger at the pleafureof the Pried ?
2. If you fay that this is not your ordinary belief, but
that the very Matter , as well as Form of the Bread and
wine ceafeth $ I add, that it is a Contradiction, that the
very Matter fhould ceafe to be, and yet be changed into a-
nother Body. The ceaftng of Matter is Annihilation:
And to fay that it is annihilated, and yet changed into .<-
nother thing, is a Contradiction : As Matter is denomi-
nated from the Form, when the Form ceafeth, the Mat-
ter ceafeth to be the Matter of that Form $ but unlefs
annihilated it is ftill the Matter of another Form. For
one Body to be annihilated, and another to take its place,
is not for the one to be changed into the other. Anni-
hilating andTranfubftantiating are Contradictory.
j. It is a Contradiction for Bread and Wine to be
turned into ChrihVs Flelh and Blood, and made his Body,
whofe Body is not FleJhyQx Blood ; unlefs he have two Bo-
dies, or one confifting of marvelous diflimilar and hete-
rogeneal parts. That Chrilt's Body in Heaven is not
Flefh and Blood at all,muft be-confeft by all true Expofi-
tors of 1 Cor. 15.50. Flefl) and Blood cannot enter into the
Kingdom of Cod. The Context flieweth that it is not Sin y
but natural proper Flefh and B'ood that is there meant :
And who will believe that glorified Bodies are Fle/h and
Blood, whoever well considered, 1. what Flefh and
Bloodily and for whatufe? 2. In what Region glorified
Bodies du'ell ; and that the Inhabitants are every where
Connatural to their Region. 3. That the Text faith
The y are Spiritual Bodies.
B And
(8)
And if ChrifYs Body in Heaven be no Flefi or Blood,
and his Bodv on Earth be both . then either he hath two
Bodies, or very heterogeneous parts or one.
4. It is a Contradiction to lay that there are Accidents,
\\ hich are northe Accidents of any Subfbnce, (either of
Breads C unit's Body, or any thing elfe : ) For, Accidentis
ejje eft in efje, it is relative : The forefaid Author f. 96.
hath told you, 1 . For Quantity a Pound, or Inch of no-
thing • a long, or broad, or thick nothing • a Pint, or
Quart of nothing, are Contradictions. 2. For the Num-
ber of Wafers, or Cups of Wine,to put twenty, or forty,
or an hundred nothings, is a Contradiction. 3. For Fi-
gure, a round, or fyuare nothing, is a Contradiction. 4.
A fweet nothing • a fiarp, or auftere nothing, inftead of
Wine, is a Contradiction. So an odoriferous nothing -
a rough, or (mooth nothing ; a red, or a white nothing . a
nothing feated on the Altar more than another place, &c,
all thele are Contradictions.
5 .And he hath there fhewed you that it is a Contradicti-
on for nothing to have real effects: for nothing really to
nonrijhy and become Flefy and Blood in him that eateth it :
yea, for nothing to be eaten 5 for nothing to turn to real
excrements • for nothing to make a Man drunk, as Wine
doth: God can do all that are works of Power, but to
verifie thefe Contradictories, is no work of Power.
6. God cannot lye, faith the Apoftle, and Nature it
felf-, elfe Faith had no certainty at all, the formal Ob-
ject failing. To lye, is to give falfe deceiving figns of the
Matter, and ofthe Authors mind : And if Gods Natural
Revelation to Senfe it felf be falfe, r yea to all Mens Sen-
fes ; doth not that make a lye as well as a falfe Word,
Prophefle, or Vifion ? God's Natural Revelations are
known by all Men certainly to be his own, and fo are
ft not
not the Prophetical: All know that God made Mans
Senje to be the Natural pcrceiver of Qenjible Objects, that
as ienfcdj they might be perceived naturally by the Intel-
lect : And fuppofing the Objetf, Sc*fe y Intellect^ and Me-
dium duly qualified, if new we be deceived,/; -rural Reve-
lation raileth, or is fjlle, and we have no remedy: So that
to make God's Natural Revelation to Scnfe, and by Senfe
to the Intellect, to be falfe to all the found Senfesin the
World, is to make God, blafphemoufly, the greateft
Lyar in the World • and this God cannot be, becaufc he
is God.
And now, I pray you what doth the Dsclrine of Rare-
faclion and Condensation make againft any of this that I
have faid ? Apply it to any one of thefe Contradictions,
and try whether it will prove them no Contradictions?
Though your definitions of them are ridiculous, ( xif-c,
that Hare foci ion is a little ALitter under a great Quantity,
and Condensation is % great deal of Matter under a little
Quantity • and this you fay is the ancient and commonly re-
ceived Definition ) yet this, were it fo, is nothing to our
bulineis. Rarefaction maketh the Quantity of Matter no
more^ but only more diffufed^ or extenfizr as to Space ;
and Space and Quantity are not all one : And Cjndsnfati-
on maketh not the Matter to be pf/f/i Quantity, but on-
ly to poflefs lefs Space : You mew how great a Philofo-
pher you are. But dpth Rarefaction make Occidents
without a Subject, or Effects without a real Can/ 5 or Mu-
ter lobe, sdded to Matter without augmenting it; or
the lame Matter to be changed into other .Matter, and
yet ceafeto.be the lame Matter it was - y or any of the reft.
And what if a Spirit, which is circumfcriptivcly .in no
pb.ee, may- be faid to be d?.fiuitiir ! y,^r p{rMi,%gliLin m>
ny pi Ices at once ? Will you lay the fame of a Bod}', a/In
B 2
Co make Body and Spirit to be the fame I A Spirit is indi-
•vifible, and ib is not Miner • but yet I make not this
the Controverfie. I know not how near ChrirVs Body
is to a Spirit, which is called fpiritual $ but if it be ma-
terial, and yet in many places at once, it mull be by
Parts • one Part in one place, and another part in another
place. For a material Body not to pollefs its proper
place according to its Quantity and Parts, is a Contra-
diction : And whatever you will fay of C firings Heaven-
ly Body, fure you will not fay that his fuppofed Flefh and
Blood is not material, or a true Body : And therefore ei-
ther Chrift hath as many Bodies , or elfe as many Pieces,
or Parts of one Body, as there are Confecrated pieces of
Bread, perhaps many Thoufand Miles diftant from each
other. Yet I will confefs to you , that as if a Thoufand
vifible Apples could grow on one fpiritual, or invifible
Tree, they would be all Parts of that one Tree 5 fo if
you could prove, that a Thoufand material vifible Hofts
are united by appofition to one fpiritual invifible Body of
Chrift as Parts, they would all be Parts of that one Body •
but marveloufly heterogeneal. But what's all this to
the forefaid Contradictions ?
But you have recourfe to the Miracle of Chrift's incar-
nation, to falve the Objection fctcht from senfe: But
what mean you by that ? Did you think that it is Mira-
cles that we object againft l or that every Miracle is a
Contradiction, or contrary to well-qualified Senfe ? What
is there in Chrift's Incarnation, Conception, or Birth,
which is a Contradiction, or againft Senje, or Reafon ?
There is indeed much that is above the reach of Reafon
without Revelation 5 but nothing that is againft Senfe,or
informed Reafon : For, what fhould it be ? Is it impofli-
ble for God to impregnate a Virgin, any more than to
• make
CO
make Eve ? Or is it impoflible for God to take a humane
Nature into Union with the Divine • when as all things
are Co neerly dependant on him, that he is, as they dy, i*-
timior intimo mftro ? and it is harder to confute that Pla-
tonift,who taketh God to be the Soul oftheUniverle,
and all things to be as it were his Body and Accidents,
than to prove it impoflible for him to be united too>;c
What elle meant your Fanuicks, Fryar Benedicl. *4*gh
in Regit! a perfect, to make it Mans perfection to believe
that there is nothing but God ?
And for the Doctrine of the Trinity, it is no more a
Contradiction, than to hold that the Mental Nature or
Spirit is informed by a Fertue or Faculty, which is One
eQenttifly, and "three refpecJively, as to the Acts and o£-
jetfs, viz. The F&cult.u-vitalis-atfiva r Intelleftiva & J'o-
Iitiva • or, that the [enfitive Soul hath a formal Faculty,
which is One and Three, viz,. Attiva y Perce^tiva, Appeti-
tiva • or., that Fire hath a Trin-une power, Motive, il-
luminative, ejr Calefactive, When Trinity in Vnity is
imprinted on all Active Natures, will you find out a
Contradiction in .it ? If it were Three Efjences, and yet
hnt One Efjence • or Three Pcrjons, and yet but One Per-
fon t in the fame fenfe and refpect, it were a Contradi-
ction. And is here any deception of our well difpofed
Senfes, or any Lye? Becaufe God hath many Works
which furpafs the power of natural fecond Cauies, in
their ordinary way of working •, and becaufe he hath ma-
ny which we cannot know without fupernatural Revela-
tion, will you thence infer that he may be the great De-
ceiver of the World, and may deliver Contradictions as
his Truth ? As if Miracles were all Lyes and Contradicti-
ons*
You fay that Chrijl appeared to S. Mary in the fiape of a
Gardner,,
(12)
Gardner. And what of that ? Either diflana, or want
of tight, or observation did hinder her from difcerning
his proper Vifage, and then its nothing to our Cale • or
eife he really ajjumcd a rifage different from that which
1 he had formerly feen : And if lb, here was no decepti-
on of Senfe, any more than in the apparition of an An-
gel . nor no more than a Masked perfon doth deceive
anothers Senfe,, becauie he would not be known . nor
any more than when one knoweth not his old Friend,
when Age or Sicknefs hath changed him.
Pag. 4. You did with a neceffary craft pafs over your
Victors Explications of the Myftery, as knowing that
they do but detecl the Contradictions.
You here tell us of £ [ome of the learnedeft of the En-
g/ijb Clergie (or Church) that confers the holy Euchari^ af-
ter Confccration, to be really and truly our Saviours Body,
and therefore fall down before it, and adore it 5 and for this
caufe difown the New Rubrick of the Common-Prajer Book,
which faith } our Lords Body is in Heave n, and not on the
Altar. The fe Doctors will tell you that they aeknowledge
the thin?, only they dare not be fo bold as the Romanics to
determine the manner. And one of the learnedeft of them,
Mr. Thorndike, asks, why cannot onr Saviour appear to us
in what jhape he pleafeth, in the jhape of a Gardner, or if
it fo pleafe him, in the [k ape of Bread and wine ? ]
To which I anfwer, 1 . That New Rubrick is but the
Old reftored : So you call our Religion New. 2. Thole
may well pafs with you for the mo ft learned, who pleafe
you belt, while you confer Degrees. 3. Such as you
teach men to refute Kneeling at the Receiving of the Sa-
crament, (as one oi you that is mentioned in the Life of
Biihop Hall) by thus perfwading men, that the Englifli
Clergv believe Tranliibftamiation, and adore according-
ly. 4. Either you (peak true or falfe of the le.vncr-
the Engl/jh derate : liftlje, it is an ill ihelter for j
other Falihoods : If true > what regard ihou Id we have
of the judgment of fuch Clergy-men, as declare their
Ajjent and Consent to all things contained in and prefcri-
bed by the Book of Common-Prayer) and Articles of Reli-
gion, and yet dtfown the Rubrick, and believe Trxnfuh-
ftantiation, and adore the Eucharifl as chrijis Body ? Why
do you not call fuch the Roman Clergie, rather than the
EngL\h clergie, if they differ from you but only in a
want" of boldness to determine the manner, while they ac-
knowledge the thing 1 What if a Bilhop Bramhall will
have the Pope to be Principium U nit at is . and take Gro-
t'ws to be of the mind of the Church of England, (who
would have Rome to be the Miftrels Church, and the
Pope the Univerfal Governour, according to the Canons
of Councils^even the Council of Trent h ) muft we there-
fore itoop to fuch mens judgment? Or might you not
as well tell us, that CaJJander, or Milctcrim, yea or
Bellarmine } were of your mind ? And whats that to us ?
Your lecond AfTertion is [_lf our Saviour would have
left us his facred Body and Blood, in^ead of all the Sacri-
fices of Sheep andOxen^ under the Mofaical Di r pe nati-
on s, to be offered up by Ghriftian Priejfs, and to bf fed up-
on by the Chriflian People, it would have been a favour
worthy of his exceffive love to mankind, by reafon of the in-
numerable benefits) &c.
An\w. 1. If he had only left us his Body and Blood, he
had not deceived all mens Senfes, nor impofed any Con-
tradictions on our Faith.
2. If he had done fo, his choice would have taught
us to take it for a benefit, becaule his Wildom is fitted
todifcern, and to denominate it.
2. To
(H)
j. To leave us that Body which was true fie ft and
Bloody capable of breakings jhedding, fain, and death, is
one thing ; and to give us his glorified Body y is another
tiling : This is not capable of breaking, fhedding, pain, or
death, being a (piritual, immortal, incorruptible Body.
Therefore indeed, the Eucharift is chrift s Body and Blood
reprefentative, but not of fuch a Body as he hath now
glorified, but fuch as was truly Flelh and Blood, which
he once offered •, the benefits of which Sacrifice are real-
ly given us in and by the Eucharift. But to have left us
a Body to be broken and flain, which cannot be flain,
and Fleft and Jflood which is not Fleih and Blood, but fpi-
ritual, is a Contradiction. But if Chrift have two Bo-
dies, or one confifting of parts fpiritual, glorified, and
of real Flefli and Blood, then indeed one part of this may
be ftill a Sacrifice.
4. But taking it ( as you here do ) abftra&edly from
Gods Will, and as in it felf confidered • what reafbn can
you give us, why Chrifi's true offering of himfelf in Sa-
crifice once for all, fhould not be as great a Benefit and
Love-Token, as our offering him daily t The holy Scrip-
ture (ffeb. 10. 14. telleth us, that \^by one offering he
hath perfected for ever them that are janffified~\ and v.
10, ii, 12. that by the mil of God we are fanclified
through the once offering of the Body of Jefus Chrift : and
every Priefl ftandeth daily miniftring^ and offering often-
times the fame Sacrifices, which can never take away fins;
but this Man after he had offered one Sacrifice for fins, for
ever fate down on the right-hand of God."] But you will
tell us what a benefit it would be to offer Chrift often ?
Doyou really break, wound, hurt, and kill him in your
offering, or do you not? If not, how is it a Sacrifice?
and how is he the flain Lamb of God that taketh away
the
the fins of the World ? And what Sacrificing, or fatis-
fti&ory life can it have, to be offered without breaking,
hurt, or death? Is it a livings ox dead Body of Chrift
that you offer? If 'a living Body unhurt^ it is none of 'the
Sacrifice the Scripture mentioneth of Chriil: And how
is it propitiatory for fin ? If it. be a dead Body y was it ever
alive? If not, 'tis not Chrift 's : If yea, who kille tb him I
And if it be his living, glorified, impaffible Body that you
offer, how unlike is that to Chrift 's offering ? And why
calleth he the Bread and wine, his Bodj and Blood, which
a glorified Body is not ? It's molt evident that Chrift
fpeaketh of his Offering Body^ and not of bis glorified Body
that cannot fuffer : And if lb, lliall we tell God what a
benefit it would be to /*•, if every Pried may become as
the Jews, the killer of Jefus Chrift ; that he may break
his real Fleih, and let out his real Blood ? Chrift did not
this himlelf. He contented to be killed, but he killed
not himlelf. And what Man of Senfe can doubt but he
fpeaketh of a Reprefentative Body, and Blood at his laft
Supper, when his real Body was not broken, nor flain,
nor his Blood, till after ; unlefs Chrift had two Bodies,
one firft killed by himfelf, and eaten by his Difciples -,
and the other killed after by the Jews.
I marvel whether any Papift believe in his Confcience,
that Pe ter y and John, and the reft,did believe at that Sup-
per, that they did eat Chrift's real Pleih, and drink
his Blood ? What, they that did not underftand before
his Refurreclion that'-he w r as to dye as a Sacrifice for fin,
and rife again, though he oft told it them ? For fo ex-
prefiy faith the Text, John 12. 16. Luke 18. 31,51,
33,34. and 24. 20, u. If it had been believed by them,
why is there no mention of any of their wonder at iiich
a Miftery, as that their Saviour lhould at once be in their
C Belly,
EcMy, and in tfteir- fight ? I caw- fcarce believe that Mar*
that faith hebelievctfh thnt they believed that then they
did eat Chrift's very Flefli and Blood. But perhaps fome
of you will take up a late ftart Conceit, that Chrift at
his Iaft Supper did not ce,'ebr.--ie,but only institute that
Sacrament : which I am afhamed to (lay to anfwer.
For our parts, we take it for- a greater mercy that
Chrift doth reconcile us to God, and- put away our fins,
by once offering himfelf in Sacrifice, inftead of the old
Sacrifices that muft be often repeated, than if he had bid
us kill, or break, or offer his real Body and Blood often.
And we take it for a greater mercy that we may d uly
offer this Reprefentative Body and Blood, and Commemo-
rative Sacramental Sacrifice, than to have broken the
real Body of Chrift our felves daily, and med his Blood.
But I wonder not that they that can believe, or take on
them to do it in fpite of all Mens Senses, can do it al fo in
fpight of Scripture, Reafon, and Conscience t
Iconfefs there is fomething in what you fay, p.j. It
would have been an incentive to munificence in adorning
Churches with the richefl Gold and pretious S tones ? and
whatever elfe that*s rare and fplendid- 7 and alio to en-
rich and magnifie the /V/W/.thatcan inftrumen tally make
God of Bread, and Sacrifice him when he hath done h or
fet him on the Altar, or keep him in a Box. But
to the entertaining of Chrift into the heart by Faith and
Love, a Reprefentative Sacrifice feemeth more meet for
us to exercife : And Chrift faid to Thomas, hlefjed are
they that have not fee n, and have believed.
Your third Affertion is, that [ The Bread and wine in
the holy Ettckarift, are by the Omnipotent Power of God actu-
ally, and indeed changed into the Body and Blood of our blef-
•ed SavhurJefmCbri fi.
Anfw>
Ci7)
Anfw. This is to the ptirpofe if it be' but proved.
But, alas, where is the Proof? Why you give us iuch as
you have, and we can expect no better from you. You
fay {_ This mas the Univerjal Belief of -the chri'fun world
in the ninth Century."] How prove you that ? Very eaft*
ly in your own conceit 5 ziz. lay you £ It . • evident fy the
Tejiiwom of nil the Writings of that 5*g<.,| and by the Uni-
verjal Tejlimony of the tenth Age • nor do oar A.iverJ-trics
deny it."]
A;;Jn\ 1. All thefe three are falfe: Neither all the
Writings of the ninth Age, nor the Univerfal Tcltimo-
ny of the tenth, faith it 5 and your Adverfaries do de-
ny it.
2. But was there not fome lorry neceflfity that put you
to begin your Proof lb low as nine, or ten hundred Years
after Chrilt? Methinks you Ihould have feared , lelt this
yiflxLb have opened all the deceit.
3. Your Adverlaries challenge you to nunc one Book
that ever fo much as named Tranlubltantiation, before
one Stephanie fcduenfis after the Year, nco, which
was neither in the ninth, nor tenth Century, and vet you
have not done it to this day* and yet go on to talk at
this rate. And they challenge you to name one General
Council that ever determined for. either Narks or Tin,
(that the Bread and Win:; are changed into the very
Body and Blood of Chrift, and are no. longer true Bread
and Wine j before the Council at the I+at-erane m^ome^
under Inncc.^. Anno^ 121 5. which furew as neither the
ninth, nor tenth Century. Can you givers no earlier
proof that ever any Conncil mentioned it ( when Coun-
cils are your Religion ) and yet deceitfully talk with con-
fidence as you do ?
4. But fupnor e the twelfth Century^ or thirteenth, had
C 2 been
cm
been the tenth . let us hear your Inference; You fay,
£ Then it mufi necefjarilj be taught in the firfi Age by the
Apoftles } to their firfi Converts over all the world ^ andcon-
fequently be mofi certainly true : For it cannot be doubted
but that tne firfi Converts did under fl and what was taught
them, believe and efleem it as highly nece[j..ry to them and
their Children^ — Then none can doubt tut that they
could and would and did teach the very fame Doctrine which
they fo highly esteemed^ eye.
Anfw. Thus- iome over- wife Pcrfonscan fit in their
Clofets ? and tell from moir real Caufes, what^nc doubt 9 \vas
done in all Ages of the World : And why can you not
as infallibly prophefie from fuch Caufes, what will be
done, and fo get the reputation of a wife Man indeed ?
As one that would infallibly foretel that his Party fhould
conquer in a certain Battel, becaufe they were, Men that
loved themfel ves and their Country, and therefore would
not wilfully deltroy, or defert both $ and therefore would
not run away -r For they know that more are killed when
they fiye, than when they ftand to it ; and if they do not
run, the Enemy will, as ordinary Experience fheweth ;
ergo they rauft needs conquer. But when he. was asked
why all the fame things might not be faid of theEne-
mies,and when he fhortly heard, defaclo^ that the Enemy
had got the day, his great Argument was i unanfwerably
confuted; But let us come to the tryal.
i . I will better argue from your Medium^againft you :
The far greater!: part of Ohriftians in the World are a-
gainft Tranfubftantiation at this day ^ therefore fo were
their Fore-fathers, and their Fore-fathers, till you come
up to the Apoftles. .
That it is fo at this day requireth no better Proof than
to have more knowledge in theftate of the World,, or
more
C«$0
more lion efty in reporting it than you have. Pag. if.
you fay Q Tie whole World formerly^ in a manner^ Pa
except a handful of Jews is now become Chr/(lian.~] Hol-
der, Is this Man like to tell you what all the ChriiHan
World held, in former Ages, from fuch a Medium as their
latter Belief, that can no better tell what the Chriitian
World is ? Look over the Globe, or Map of the World,
and let this Man tell you which be the Countries that are
Chriftian • and then take the Mcafure there of their Pro-
portion your ft If. Or to lave you the labour, read any
credible Author that reporteth it. Brienxood in his Eur
quirics, one of the beit, tells us, after the naming of the
leveral Countries of each Religion, that if you divide
die Known World into Thirty Parts, nineteen are Pagan
Idolaters , fix are Mahometans, and rive arc Christians
of all forts : But this Man is not afliamed to fay, that,
exceft a h.vjdftd of 'Jews, the wbo'e jvorld w a manner P>-~
gan, is new bee: ?n: Christian. All the Pagans of A t rica y
and America^ and Afia^ and all the Mahometans are no-
thing to him ; even rive fixth parts of the Known World.
And, alas, how little probability is there that the term
incegnits, the vaft unknown Regions, mould be Chriiti-
an: fure if they were governed by the Pope, he would
know them. He that can Tranfubftanniate all the Pa-
gans, and Mahometans on Earth, into Chrihhans ?, and
make Men believe that five parts of fix of Mankind are
now of a Religion which they partly know not, and part-
ly abhor, may not difpair hence to prove Tranluftanti-
ation* But how many of this fixth part of the World
are Papijls ? A Biihop Bromhall faith, that about the fifth
part of the Chriftians of the World are Papifts : Others
think about a fourth part, not meafuring by the large-
nefs of their Dominions (for few in the King of Spain's
Weft-
("20)
weft-Indies are Chriftians ) but by the Number of Pro
feflors. But the moft that ever I knew any underftand-
ing impartial reckoner allow them, is to be the third part
of Chriftians ; comparing them with the AbaJines,Cop-
ties, Syrians, Armenians, Gregorians, the Greek-church,
and Muscovites, and all the Protectants, &c. And when
the Empire of Abaft ia was greater by many Kingdoms,
and the Kingdom of Nubia was not revolted, and many
great Countries of the Greek Religion were not yet turned
Mahometans, the Papifts were proportionably much lefs
a part than now. And though moft of thefe will fay, as
we do,thatthe Bread and Wine are Chrift's Fleih & Blood
(not which is in Glory, but which iv.rs Sacrificed for us on
Earth ) yet few, if any, of all thefe do hold real Traniub-
ftantiation. If he fay the contrary of them, Travellers,
and Authors enow of their own can confute him : (How
ihamefully they have changed the Mthiopick Liturgie, as
to their (enfe 3 by the altering of one word Biihop Ufier hath
(hewed from the true Copies $ and by fuch tricks they
can, by a Printer, make all the World Papifts : and I
would the Pope had no other fort of Subjects to uphold
his Monarchy, than fuch as are fo made.)
I appeal now to any impartial reafon, whether I may
not better argue againft Tranfubftantiation, becaufe two
or three parts of the Chriftian W r orld are againft it, than
he can argue for it, becaufe a third ox fourth part are now
for it, or were fo in the twelfth, or the tenth Century.
But perhaps he will fay, that tley are of the fame Reli-
gion that they ever vcere, but Jo are not the Proteflants. . I
aniwer, i . The Proteftants will not undertake that none
of their Anceftors from the beginning were in this, or
other points, erroneous : If the Papifts will, it is fuitabJe
to their other undertakings : But that we are of the fame
Reli-
Religion which all true Chriftians were of from the be-
ginning, the [iime B.ipt/Jm, the fame Creeds the Cam :.. . .' -
Prayer and Decalogue, and the fame Scriptures, owned,
fliew : and the Lords-Supper Adminiftred in the fame
words as Chrift and his Apoftles and the ancient Chur-
ches did. 2. But if the Proteftants had not been of the
fime Faith with their Anceftors^ what's that to the reft
that are more than all the Panifts ? It's notable to read in
their Godhnw ae rebm Ai^fjiinerum^ how an old Woman
( the Emperors Mother ) eonfuted,or baffled the Learned
papift that came with Oiic.w to pervert them to the
Pope; by pleading the Tradition of their Fore-fat'
that had delivered them their Religion, and never told
them of the Pope. And how tenacious the Greeks are
of their Religion as received from their Fathers, their
very ftitfnefs againft the Roman Infertion of [_Fiuoq h ] in-
to the Creed, fiifficiently iheweth. 3. hut that really
the Papifts are Innovators, and have changed the old Reli-
gion in this Point,as \\ e have oft fully proved out of Anti-
quity^ io we need no other Proof than the exprefs words
of'Scripture • which ( to pal's by the reft ) in one Chap-
ter in the three next Verfes 1 Cor. 11. 26, 27, 28, ) doth
three times call it Q Bread ] after Confecration. And I
never met with a Writer fo impudent as dare deny but
their leaving out the Cup to the Laity in the Lords-
Supper is a change from the antient Practice of the
Church. And yet will this Medium ferve our Rational
Difcourfer ; The prefect church 'caret h out the Cup*, ergo
fo did their Fore-fathers^ and fo did the Apoftles ? And
let him tell me, with the Face of a Man, if he can, whe-
ther he think in his Confcience that our Anceftors, or
the firft Converts of the Apoftles, were not more likely
to underhand and remember vphether the Bread and Cup
were
were both delivered by the Apoftles, or the Bread alone,
than to underfland and remember in what fenfe it was
that the Bread and Wine was called Chrift's Body and
Blood.
In fum, i. We believe that all true Chriftians have
the fame Religion which was firft received from the Apo-
ftles. 2 . We are fure that they kept not all the fame Pu-
rity, and Integrity of that Religion- As fome fell quite
away to Paganifm, and Mahumatanifm, and fome to
Arrianifme, and other Herefies 5 fo fome that fell not fo
far, fell to lefler Errors. 3. And we do undertake to
prove, contrary to this Difcourfer, that the generality of
the Churches for many Ages, and the maft of the Chri-
ftian World to this day, held not, and hold not Traniub-
ftantiation.
II. I farther ufe his own Argument againft him; At
this day, the greateft part of the Churchy by far, and in
the fourth Century, that which they themfelves call the
Universal Churchy denyed the Pope's Primacy ( much more
his Soveraignty ) to be of Divine Inftitution : Therefore
fo did the firft Converts of the Apoftles. If the Conie-
quence be good in your Cafe, it is much more in this.
1 . You falfty feign all the Church to have been for Tran-
fubftantiation, but I (hall undeniably prove what I urge
them for, as being againft the Divine Inftitution of the
Romm Primacy. 2. And this is a Point likelier to be com-
monly underftood and remembred, than the meaning of
the words [ Body and Blood,] I prove the Antecedent.
1 . That moft Chriftians now are againft it, is a mat-
ter of Fad commonly known : Two or three parts of the
Chriftian World being no Subjects of the Pope at all,
viz. Thofe before mentioned. 2. That in the fourth
and fifth Century the Church was of this judgment, ap-
peareth
peareth by the raoft exprefs words of one of the four
Great General Councils, even that at C&lcedon, which
faith, C Definitions [anctorum Patrum [eqnentes ubiq^ &
Regulam, & que nunc relecia font 150 Deo amxntijfimo-
rum Epifcoporum, qui Congregate \11nt fub pit memori* Im-
peratore majore Tkcodofio in Regit Civitate Conftantmop,
nova Roma, Cognefcentes & nos eadem dcfintvimus de pri-
vilegio ejufdem fanc/ijj. Conjlantinop, Ecclefi.e, nov* Romx:
Etenim fedi Jeniwis Rom.e.propter Imperium frvitatis iUim ,
Patres confequenter privilegia reddiderunt : ejr eadem in-
tent ione promoti 150 Deo amantiff. Epifcopi *qua fani'tif-
ftm* fedi nov£ Rom* pnvilegia tribuerunt, rationahtliter
judic antes Imperio cjr fenatu urbem or n at am aqu/s fenioris
Regit Rom£ privileges frui7\ that is [_ " We following
" alway the definitions of the holy Fathers and the Ca-
" non, and knowing thofe things which now have been
" read of the 1 5 o Bilhops moft beloved of God, that were
u Congregated under the Emperour, of pious memory,
" Tbeodo/ius, the greater, in the Royal City, Conflantino-
<c pie, New Roweyhwe our felves alio defined the fame
" things concerning the Priviledges of the fame moft ho-
" ly Church of Confiantinoplc^ New Rome : For, to the
lc Seat of Old Rome, becaufe of the Empire of that City,
"the Fathers confequently gave the Priviledges: And
"the 1 50 Bilhops moft beloved of God, being moved
" with the fame intention, have given equal Priviledges
u to the moft holy Seat of New Rome . reafonably judg-
" ing that the City, adorned with the Empire and Sen ite,
" (lull enjoy equal Priviledges with Old Regal Rome ]
Here you fee, 1 . That two of the four greatelt Gene-
ral Councils concur. 2. That they profefs herein to
follow the old Definitions, and Rule. 3. That they con-
clude that Romes priviledges were given it by the Fathers.
D 4. And
4. And that becaufe of the Imperial Seat. 5. And there-
tore they give equal priviledges to Conjhntinofle.
The Teitimony is fuch as nothing but impudent vio-
lence can put by: either they (peak true^or not: If not^then
how come two of the greateft General Counoils fo quick-
ly to falfifie the Tradition of the Apoftles ? Did they not
understand what their Fathers had delivered to them ?
or did they difefteem it, or forget it ?
Ifthey'fpake truth, (as they did J you fee that Rome
hath no priviledges, or primacy, from God's tnftitution,
but (like Canterbury} in our Empire by the Princes
and Fathers Gift.
Which is ib fure, that he muft put off common Inge-
nuity ,that confiderately will deny it-, having not only this
Testimony of two Grand Councils.) but the continued
opinion of all the Greek-Churchy even before their divifi-
on from the Roman : For, let any Man rationally Anfwer
me this Argument. {The whole Greek-Church knew
that a Divine Invitation wis to be preferred before a Hu-
mane : The whole Greek-Church knew thAt Constantino-
ple was not by Divine , but by Humane Institution^ m.ide
Patriarchal or equal with Rome, and yet were for its
Patriarchate and equality , if not priority : Therefore the
whole Greek-Church j'tdged Romes Patriarchate and Pri-
macy to be of Humane^ and not of Divine Injtitution. I
havelarglier proved this elfewhere.
IIT. I give you another Argument with your own
Medium. [ The Universal church in the time of theCoun-
cils o/Conftance and Bafil, judged that a Pope might be a
wicked Heretick, and as fuch be deposed • and that it is de
fide, that Con-nils have power fo fo do : ErgOythis was the
Doctrine of toe Apo[lles to their Convert s7\ And yet the
Councils at the Liter a /rf- under Leo the Tenth, and Flo-
rence^
(25)
re nee ,deter mine that the Pope is above a Council. What
Self-contradiftors now do you make the Apoftles to be ?
How could the Councils of Bafil and Cvnftance believe
that Councils are above the Pope, and that he may be a
fallible wicked Heretick, unlets they had received it down
from the Apoftles? And how could the Councils at the
Litter ane^ and Florence, judge the contrary, unlels they
had received it down from the Apoftles ? Will neither
Reafon nor Experience make you amamed of cheating
the World by fuch filly Inferences?
IV. But yet I will come nearer you ; The fame Gene-
ral Council at the Ltter/we, fab Innoc. :. which tirft
decreed for the Belief of Tranfubftanti.uion, did in the
very next Canon and words, decree, That all Temporal
Lords mould exterminate from their Dominions all iiich,
as Hereticks, that denyed this Tranfubftantiation h and
if they did not exterminate them, lliould be excommuni-
cate by the Pope ; and if yet they did it not, the Pope
lliould depofe them,, and ablblve their Vaflals from their
Allegiance, and give their Dominions to another. Now
either they had this by Tradition from their Anceftors,
and lb from the Apoftles, or not : If not, whv mould you
dream that the Council had the fecond Canon from the
Apoftles j, and not the third? If yea: Then, i. We fee
what we muft expect from your Religion : The King
muft exterminate all Protectants (and other Decrees far,
Burn them) or elle be depoicd himfelf. To extermi-
nate us ail, will bealmoftto depofe himfelf. Kind Sir,
whither Hiall we all go? or who mall burn fa many ? It
will be a greater Incendinm than that of London \ or South-
vcark : And who ihall be the Kings Subjects ? Who mall
Plant England anew? The French, Spaniards, or //. tit-
ans ? But wliat if in this fortunate Ifland the) a![o mould
D 2 awa-
C 2<* )
awaken and turn Proteftants $ mufi; the King be to feek
for new Planters to be his Subjects ?
As Bene diet us spixo[a r who affaulted the Scripture,
did at once alfo affault all Civil Government • and taught
men, that he that could get the Crown had beft right to
it i, and that a Man may kill any that ftand in the way of
his defires, and break any Vows when they are againlt.
thofe defires ( which are his Intereft, ) God mercifully
ib ordering it, that he that will depefe Chrift, mall with
him be permitted to depofe all Kings and Governours •
Even foGod in mercy to preferve Princes, in theirwits,
from turning Papifts, hath permitted the fame Men that
firft by Council, condemned common Senfe, and made
God the deceiver of Senfe, and of the Worlds and new
brought Tranfubftantiation into the Faith, to make a
Decree alfo ( fuch as never Turks, or Canniballs made )
That all Men that will not renounce all their Senfes (that
isj> their animality, and their humanity) (hall be extermi-
nated -, and all Princes depo fed that will have fuch (as
renounce not humanity) for their Subjects.
Several things are faid to this, by Men that think that
if they do but open their Mouths, and fpeak, though
it it be to prove that Murder is Mercy and Piety, they
have conquered.
i. Say fome, Tou fee the King of France^ nd others , do
not [o. Anfw. i. \ithey may be good Cxtbo'icksthzx. re-
bell againft the Pope and a General Council, why may
not we ? 2.1 fpeak not of what any of you do, but what
your very Religion bindeth you to do : Are not Councils your
objective Religion? By the fame Lavp And Religion then,
that Tranfubftantiation was firft. decreed, if it rule in
England, we are all in Law exterminated, or dead Men
( except the Papifts ) or clfe the King muft be no King.
Can
(27)
Can you fay in Confcience that your Anceftors had this
from the Apoftles ? If you will, let Kings, that love your
Tradition, take it.
a.Butfome fay,thatthefe were no Decrees of the Coun-
cil, becaule they were but propofed in haite by Pope
Innoc. and not patted by the Council. This help
Bilhop Taylor, Bilhop Gunning, and Bilhop Pi-rfon ^ in
kindneis, would give the Papifts ; but unthankful Men
will not accept it : And therefore the Anfwerers to Bilhop
Gunning and Bi&QP ficrfan prove the contrary, as Mr.
Dodwem hath unanfwerably done lately at large:And what
ever it was in it felf, it was a General Council to the Pa-
pifts, and is part of their Religion, who number it with
the approved ones. And Math. Pans faith but this, that
Q many Decrees were propofed, or brought in by the Pope,
which fome Hied, andfome dijliked~] and yet the Major
Vote might pals them: See alio Nancler,Gcn 41. an.
1 2 I 5 . G ode f rid ad An. 121}. P latin, in Vit. Innoc. f .
3. Others fay, that thefe were but Decrees of Practice
and Difcipline, and not de fide • and therefore the Pope
is not here Infallible, nor his Council neither. But Men
that will not take a found of Words for their Eftates,
Lives, and Souls, may foon anfwer this. 1. That
though there be many things to be believed, that are not
to be done - yet there is nothing to be done but what we
mult firft believe that it may, or mufi be done. When it
is laid, Thou (halt love God and thy Neighbour 5 it is in-
cluded, that, Thou muft believe it thy Duty to love God
and thy Neighbour : So he that faith |" Hereticks mail be
exterminated, and Temporal Lords that will not do it
ihall be depofed, and their Dominions given to others ]
doth include, that [ To do fo is a Duty, or Lawful at leaft.~\
Sure it is not confeffedly decreed that the Pope ihall fin,
or
("28)
ot 4 that Temporal Lords lhall be dcpoled by him for any-
thing but fin, in their Affertion.
2. If you grant that a Pope and General Council are
Fallible about Duty and Sin, even in depofing Princes,
and diffolving their Subjects Oaths of fidelity, how lhall
we know that they are Infallible in matters of Faith ? He
that is deceived in faying, Thou muftobey the Ten Com-
mandments, may be deceived in faying, Thou flialt be-
lieve the Creed : If we cannot be fure by the Churches
Propofal that God is to be loved • how fliall we that way
be fure that he is to be Lelicved, and that the Scripture is
bis word. And if the Pope may excommunicate and de-
pofe Princes,and change Dominions by errour h how can
I be fure that he may not lay by errour, that this Bread is
no Bread, and this Wine is no Wine.
3. Is it only matter of Faith, and not matter of Fact
that you have by fure Tradition ? Is not matter of Fact (as
ChrifiVs Birth, Death, Refurre&ion, and Afcention) al-
io matter cf Faith ? And is not this in quertion a matter
of Fact, viz. Whether, de facto, the Apojrles told the firjl
Converts^ that Bread after Confecration was no Bread,
and that this was the meaning of ChriiVs words [ This
is my Body ] which you aflfert ? And it's matter of Pratt ice
that Men mull receive it in this ihnie. But if the Coun-
cil may be deceived in this, and make (uch Laws for ru-
ining Princes and Nations, which yet they were never
taught by their Fore-fathers- why may not the fame
Men lay [ Bre td is no Bread ] without being taught it by
their Fore-fathers.
4. Will you give it us under your hand, that this
Council and Pope did err in this, and are not to be obey-
ed, that Princes may have fo much notice of your trufti-
ncis ? But what Council hath ever fince declared that
this
this Pope and Council erred in this j name it me if you
can? No, they will be guilty of no fuch Contradictions
as (hall fignifie repentance and amendment.
5. In the mean time, is not the Pope and bis C
by this Decree, declared Enemies to all Proteftant Princes,
and People \ What can any proclaimed Hoftility do
more^, than thus by your higheit pow er to Decree Exter-
mination of all the Peopleyind Depofition of their Lords'
And is not he to be taken and uled as* a Publick ProfeiTed
Enemy, who foprofeflfethhimfelf? Are you not all vir-
tually in continual Arms -igainJt us, who make the De-
crees of fuch Councils your Religion ?
V. And why might not an Arnan have argued as you
do, when they had their General Councils, and the
World groaned to find it {elf turned Arrian y faith a Fa-
ther? Might they not at Ariwinum and Ftrmium have
laid;, How can we believe it y unless our Fathers had it
from trie Apojlles ? And I fuppofe you know ( elfe Sondi-
us will tell you ) that the Arruns pretend as confidently.
to Tradition as the Papifts do. And your own Dionrf.
Petaviw hath cited lb great a Number of the antienteft
Fathers and Writers, who fpeak words too plainly fa-
vouring of, or fivouring Arrianifm, as will tell any
Man that their pretenfe is not without iuch a colour of
proof, as is as plaufible as any you can bring for the Tra-
dition of Tranfubftantiation at the lead.
VI. I pray you tell us which way was Traniubftanti-
ation delivered down from the Apoftles ? By writing,
or without-book^ ly word alone ? If by Writing, are not
thole writings yet extant ? And cannot we read them as
well as you? You tell us that all the Writings of the
ninth, or tenth Age (hew it ( which is falfe.) But if the
Writings of the firft eight hundred years (hewed not the
lame .
(3°)
fame thing to them^ how did they know it ? If by bare
words^ can you make your (elf believe that b*re yvords^
and Memory , will as furely convey down from Age to
Age, the Myfteries of Faith, as written Records will do ?
Do you not daily find, that if Men are but to repeat a Ser-
mon, yea a few Sentences^ how apt they are to alter, or
omit, or add fome words which alter the whole fenie ?
I feldom hear a Sermon reported, but fomewhat of it is
mif-reported ! yea, we can fcarce have a matter of Facl;
reported without great diverfity and mif-reports • which
makes the common reports of Perfons, and Things, in
City and Country;, to be fo full of falihood, and uncer-
tainty. Mens Memories are flippery, and the alteration
of a word, may make the matter another thing. Send
but your Servant to do a meflage, or bufinefs for you , by
bare word and memory • and at another time Write him
down all that he mall fay, or do 5 end try which way will
occafion more miftake i Why do you keep your Bonds,
Bills, Covenants, Leaies, Deeds, and Teftaments in
Writing elfe, and do not truft them to Mens Memories ?
Why are our Laws Written, and Court Records kept, if
Memory will keep them better? Had we no Books, or
Records, one Lawyer would fay one thing, and another,
another things and there would be nothing but uncer-
tainty and confufion. Why do fo many Preachers ufe
Sermon Notes ? Why do you caufe all your Mafs, even
the Hoc e(l Corpus meum to be read out of a Book, and
truft not your Mafs -Priefts to repeat them by Memory ?
Befides, that, Men Write more deliberately, and accurate-
ly ,than ufually they fpeak-, and their fenfe is eafilier tryed,
and reviewed. Where Mens Life and Death lyeth on it,
Phyficians will hardly truft their Memories with all their
Remedies h nor fend one to the Apothecaries without
a writ-
a written Bill, left the miftake of a word, or Dofij
prove Death.
VII. And I ask you farther, Is all the reft of your Reli-
gion delivered, only, ormofi certainly >hy word of Month and
Memory, or rather by Books ? Are not the Decrees of
allyjur approved General Co/tnc ils for Faith and Practice
your Religion \ And are not thefe written in Books ?
Have Caranza, Cra 1 , Surius, Nicotines, Binius, the great
and many Volumns of the French Edition, and ill the
reft, been all written in vain? Do all your Lay-Papifts,
or all your Priefts, or any of them carry all thefe in their
Memories to a word ? Or are they there as lure as in your
Books ? Doth Verbal Tradition now deliver down your
Religion ? Nay, do you not Write your very Confcfions
and Creeds ? If all your Books were burnt, would not
your Religion be greatly changed, while much of the
Decrees of Councils would be forgotten? and O what
contention and confufion about them would there be?
VIII. But if all your Religion was lo currantly deli-
vered by word of Mouth by Fathers to their Children,
what made the ancient Doctors pals by the fame things in
their Writings?, when their Writings were purpofely to
tell their Readers what was the Chriftian Religion, and
the reafons of it •, would they leave out that in their de-
liberate Writings, which every Child was taught by his
Parents?
iX.But what mean you to talk of all Parents delivering
it to their Children? Do you mean all Priefts, or all Lay-
men ? U Priefts had children, it's like they were Married 5
And had you then the Celibate of Priefls by Tradition
from the Apoftles ? If you mean Laymen, would you
make Men believe any Story you tell them, contrary to
the experienc of their daily Convcrfe ? Do we not fee
E that
that the far greater! part of Men, both among Papifts,
Greeks, and Proteftants, have too lktle f;nie, or under-
ftanding of Religion, to be accurate keepers of the lenle
of Scripture ? Try your own followers in Ireland^ Spain,
Italy, yea, or France, whether the generality of the
Common People teach their Children, or understand
themlelves, what a Sacrament is •, though your Induftry
may teach them to Cant out inch words as you would
have them lay in oppofition to the Proteftants. When
we have much ado to get moft of the Vulgar to endure
to be Catechited themfelves, and to understand the very
Creed, and Principles of Christianity ^ do you fuppofe
them competent preiervers of the myfterious lenle of fuch
words as we are Controverting ?
X. And if Tradition without Writing be fo fure, how
cometh Tradition to be lb contrary ? The Millenaries
pretended to Tradition from St. John 7 . Moft of the Wri-
ters of the firft 300 Years feem for them. Yet I think
you will fcarce confefs that this was indeed the Doctrine .
of any Apoftles.
XI. How long did the Opinion and Practice of Infants
Communion prevail in the Church? Doth it follow
therefore that they had it from the Apoftles? Why then
do you difufe it ?
XII. The Practice of not adoring, kneeling on any
Lords-day in the Year, or any Week-day between Epfter
and whit^ontUe, was indeed called the Practice of the
Univerfal Church, and an Apoftolical Tradition 5 and
was Decreed in the firft General Council at N 'ice , Can,
20. If they had not this from the Apoftles, how prove
you that your Tranfubftantiation is from them ? Iftjiey
had, why have you changed an Apoftolical Univerfal
Practice ?
XUL And
(33)
XIII. And if it was the Common Belief of the Church,
why did never General Council mention it till 12 15
Years after Chrift's Birth ? Was it becaufe it was com-
monly known ? So were the Articles of Faith which the*
do mention : And lure it is the Common Faith which
they are to preferve and deliver. Unlels the}' were neg-
ligent or forgetful, it was becauie no fuch thing was
then believed.
XIV. The ancient Churches profefled that their Creed
contained all the necetfary Articles of the Chriftian Faith:
And when Hereticks obfeured fome of them, they put
the Expofition of them into their after Creeds. If Tran-
fubitantiation then was a necetfary Article of Faith, how
came it to be left out of all the Creeds ?
XV. The fecond Council at Nice held Angels to be
Corporeal, and that Images were not to be worshipped
with Latrix: Yet Aqmnas^ md many others of you, as
to the Image of Chrijt and the Crofs, dillent from them in
the latter •, and the generality in the former : Had they
thefe then from the Apoftles, or not ?
XVI. Doth one of your General Councils, ( e.g. that
at Ti •»;,) fignifie all the Chriftian World? 1. When
they are oft but a few Men (not fifty fometimes ) and
when one County or Diocets with us hath more Learn-
ed Men. 2 . When they are a Fadion packt by the Pope,
and his Agents. 3. When we know that it is ufually
the Pope, Prince, or Arch-Bilhop, or Men of Power, that
chufe the Members, though molt of the Clergy be oft
for others, or have no choice. 4. When all the Papifts
that lend to your Councils are not part the third part of
Chriftians, and the far greateft part have no Delegates
there. 5. When we know that a few Mens Intereft,
and Speeches in fuch Aflemblies ufe to carry away the
E 2 moft.
C ; 4>
moft. 6. When we know that they Life to differ among
thcmfclves, and fometime carry a Caule but by a few
Votes : And how fhall we be fure that if ninety fay one
thing, and one hundred lay the contrary , that the ninety
did not as well underftand the Tradition of their Fore-
fathers as the hundred? 7. And when we, know that.
Men are oft in Council bnrn down by fears, or hopes, or
fair words, and repent when they come home, as the.
Creeks did after the Council at Florence. 8. Yea, when .
we know that they fometime fall into inhumane Fewds,,
yea^ and fight it out to Blood • as the Cafe of Diofcortu
againft Flavians proveth. And is this a certain* Tradi^
tion of what w r as delivered by the Apoftles ?
Indeed Baptifm, the Creed, Lords-Prayer, Decalogue, ,
and the Eucharift have been delivered down by certain
Tradition • But fo hath not every Controverne about,
them, nor in particular^ .the Doclrine of Tranfubftan-
tiation.
XVII.' Read but Pet. MoUham de Nov it ate Papifmi^.
or but the N on-con f or mifts late Morning Lectures on that .
Point ; and you will fee how the Papifts have innovated
in Religion^ and all their Errours proved Novelties : And
fhall we think that fuch changers have kept Tranfubftan-
tiation as from the Apoftles, that,could not keep one half
the sacrament it fe If which they delivered them ?
XVIII. How fhall the ignorant know whether this
Vim fay true? that moft Books^ and moft Men were for.
Tranfubftantiation in the. ninth and tenth Centuries?
The time is paft, and the Men are dead : Muft he know it.
by the Books of thofe Ages, or by the Teftimony of
this Age ? If by their Books, 1 . How fhall he that hath
read their Index expngatorim y and known their corrup-
ting of Authors, be fure that thofe are not corrupted ? or
many
(35)
monV of them as very Forgeries, as Merc at or s Decretals,
and abundance of Spurious Writings ? fo proved by
Cook, Blonde!!, Rivet, Ujher, and many more. Is it necefla-
ry to Salvation that the Vulgar (yea, or the PrieftsJ
have Co much skill in Hiftory as to know which way
moil Men went for fo many Ages paftj in the Expofition
of fuch a Text of Scripture ? What Man can tell now
what mind molt of the World are of in feveral Myfteries,
and Contrqyerfies between you and us? Who can tell
how to take their Votes ? Much le's can every illiterate
Man know what mind moft Men were of in former Ages -,
and leaftof all to be able critically to judge of the Evi-
dence, and what Authors are fpurious and corrupted, and
what found. 2. Nay, whoever put lb much Cofmo-
graphy into the Creed before you, or made it neceilary
to Salvation,toknow that there is fuch a Place as Rome
in the World ? 3. If Books muft decide that Cafe for the
ninth and tenth Century, why not for the former alto ?
And have not we all thofe Books as well as you? And
yet we are confident that they are againft you. 4. But if
it mull be by the Teftimony of the prefent Generation,
whole Teftimony mud: it be that muft tell us what our
Bore-Fathers held ? Muft it be by the Teftimony of a
Council? 1. There is no General to enquire of, nor hath
been long-, nor know we whether ever there will be?
2. If it muft be by the Ufi Council, 1. How ihall the
Vulgar know that it was a true General Council, any
more than that of Epbef. 2. Bajil, Confiance^ ejre. 2. How
know they what they did Decree ? They never faw, or
heard them. If it muft be by the Printed Books,
1. They cannot read them. 2. They know not
whether they are forged , or falfified. 3. They
know not the meaning of them. If it muft be by
Reports^ by whofe Report ? Father Paul Servita maketh
them a pack of Fellows that abufe the World, under the
fhew of a General Council : He was a Papift. We can-
not look for another Council to tell us what this Coun-
cil faid. Muft men take the word of particular men ?
Some accufe that Conncil- fomeownit: Whom fhall
we believe ? muft it be every fin^e Priefl ? Then Father
Paul mull: be believed againft them : And fome that turn
from the Pope lay more againft them than he : And how
fhall the People know that the Prieft faith true ? Perhaps
he knoweth the Prieft to be a common Lyar, or perjured •
at leaft, he knoweth him not to be infallible. If the Pope
be infallible, none of you faith that each Priefl \$ (o: And
we never faw or heard the Pope. If you fay that we
muft believe the Priefts where they all confent : How
(hall ordinary men know that, 'who never fee a Council,
nor mxny of them ? If the major Vote muft be believed :
who mall gather the Votes, and how {hall the People
know them? In a word, I fee no way that you have to
give men any aflurance what to believe to falvation, (for
the generality that cannot travel over the World, nor
get skill in Hiftory and Cofmography) but only to be-
lieve that Prieft that fpeaketh to him • when perhaps he
knoweth him to be a man that hath forfeited belief ; or
at leaft is neither the Pope, Council^ Churchy nor pre-
tendeth to infallibility.
But fuppofe that the perfon be fo learned, as to be ver-
fed in the Councils, How fhall he know by them what
the former Ages held ? i . What Councils be they that
he muft believe, and how fhall he be fure of it ? Is it the
Councils aforefaid of Ephef. 2 . Bafil, Conflance, and fuch
other? Thefe you reject, and many more. 2. Do any
Councils tell him by Decrees, which former Councils
were
C37>
were currant, and wliich not ? Sure they do not ; no,
not the laft at Trent : So that it is not, de fide, with } T our
felves, which are the true Councils, and which not.
3, How doth a later Council know which former Coun-
cils v\ ere true ? Not becaufc they find (o themfelves ; for
then all would be true : If it be by any Characters, what
be they, and why may we not know them ? 4. How do
Councils know w hich way mod Writers went, or what
they wrote? As it cannot be expected that theBi/hops
that met at Trent lliould r v. member by Tradition what all
the Chriitians in the world [aid or thought in every Age ;
Co neither were all Writers words known to them without
Book, by verbal Tradition. I pray you tell me trujy,
whether ever any General Council took that way to
prove what J#fti# 9 Tcrtuliixn, Cyprian, BaH, Gregories,
Hit rem, A'lgrtfiine , Chry\o\kom, <y-c. laid and held, by
mewing that they had it by Tradition from other Coun-
cils Decrees, or their Fathers telling them lb, rather
than by looking into the Writings of the Authors them-
felves ? And your own Doctors commonly tell us what
the Fathers held, by citing the Fathers words, and not by
telling us, that either Councils, or their Fathers, or Mo-
thers, or Nurfes told them whatthev ibid or held, [ex-
cept in the common Effentials of Chriltiurity, the Sacra-
mental Covenant, Creed, Lords-Prayer, Decalogue, and
that the Scripture is Gods Word] which all Chriftians
acknowledge are delivered tons, as by two hands, vir,,
by verbal and practical Tradition, and by the Scripture
it felf.
But if it be the Prefent church real, (that is, the -con-
fent of Chriftians) which mud tell us what was held in
the former Ages (which for ought I find is it that you
flye to -, ) though the ignorant cannot try this,all know-
ing
ing men can tell that this way you are utterly condemn-
ed: For at this day, as is faid before, at leaft two third
parts of the Chriftian World are againft your very Pa-
pacy it (elf- and believe the ancient Churches to have
been againft it: So that Tradition doth depofe the Pope.
So that you have no way left, but to fay, 7/ is our own
judgment or Tradition alone that we will jiand to.
So much to your dull cheat, about your pretended
Univerfal Tradition.
Pag. n. You notably fay, \_Suppo[e a Book fully written
as to all points to be believed by Chri'Hans, by the jirft
Teachers of Chrij 1 ianity : Lst them together with this Book
give charge to their Jjrjl Convert /, not to add to it, or di-
minish it^ and to believe as in their Consciences they /half
think that Book fhall teach them. Though Generation af-
ter Generation be never fo faithful to fuch a Charge, yet
th?y may in after Ages come to !ofe or change their Faith,
becaufe the Book may jcem to one Generation to bear one
fenfe, and to another Generation to bear another As
theie words, This is my Body*, may fern to one Age to bear
this fenfe, This is the sign of my Body, &c7\
1 . But you mult fuppofe alfo, that they that will learn
this Book mult have Teachers: 'Elfe how will they fb
much as read it ? We are for Teachers as well as you,
though not for Judges that may judge in partem utramli-
het. The Paftors may teach the People that there is a
God, a Chrift, a Life to come 5 but cannot judge that
there is none. And Teachers make known that fame Evi-
dence of Truth to the Learner, by which they received it
themfelves •, but do not fay, you muft believe that there
is a God, a Chrift, a Heaven, meerly becaufe wefay fo.
2. And you muft put into your Suppofkion, that (as
is faid) the Effentials are delivered both ways, by wri-
ting and by word of mouth, 3 . And
Ch9>
3. And now fuppofe, that the Apoftles had put the
lame expofitory words of {This u my Bcd<~\ into a Book,
which they fpake by word of mouth? Had that been the
lefs intelligible becaufe they were in the Book? Or the
harder to beremembred? Or could that Age have deli-
vered to the next any more, as from the Apoftles, than
what they received ? And if that be the* fame written as
fpoken, furc writing maketh it not the lefs or worle ? If
it do, all your Religion is in danger, now it is written in
your Volumns of Councils. Have you wore yetthats
neceflary, befides all thofc Volumns, which you whif-
pcr or deliver by word of mouth? If not, you profefs
your Religion unfafe, becaufe you have written it.
4. And indeed you here profefs, that the fidelity of
fucceflive Generation cannot preferve Religion, by pre-
ferving and delivering any Bouks.. And if io, then your
prefcrvation of Fathers, and written Councils, and De-
cretals, is no fufficicnt Tradition of the lenle of [This is
my Bity.~] Could you ihew us your fenfe in them, it is
an infufficieot Tradition •, for one may take your Coun-
cils in one fenfe, and another in another.
5. But do you indeed think that any Perfon or Coun-
try is fecured from changing their Religion by your ver-
bal way ? Why then did the Reformers when they were
of your way forfake it ? Why did the Greek Churches dif-
own you ? Nay, why did lb many ancient Churches
apoitatize to Mahometanifm ? Was it for want of Verbal
Tradition ? Hid they not the fame as you ? Sure no Law
will fecure it lelf from being broken by miners, and no -
Tradition is enough to prevent Apoftafie. But why the
fame words fhould be lefs fufficicnt written bv the Apo-
ftles, than/jM'-"# by them 5 or why Gods Writings mould
not be as lure and clear in things of ncccifity, as your
V Conn-
(4°)
Councils 5 or why your Councils ihould be infufficient,
becaufe written ^ no impartial man can tell.
But you fay further, [But no ten Families who have
been taught by their parents* either to leliere that our Sa-
viours Body is in the Eucbarift, or that it is not there ^ (you
mould have (aid, in what fenfc it is there) can pojfbly
miftake^ &cP±
Dreams may feem fomething to men that are afleep :
If God had written the fame words that my Mother
fpake to me, why could not I have as well understood
them ? Doth my Mother, or Father, or Prieft fpeak fo
much more wifely than God? Sure not, if the words
were the fame. But alas, can you keep us from know-
ing, that you and we have ten thoufand and ten thou-
fand Families near together, where the Parents never
talk much to their Children about any fuch matters, nor
catechize them, nor themfelves underitand them : When
we ask many of the ignorant Papifts, whether they be-
lieve that there is no true Bread and wine at all after con-
fecration, they tell us that they do hold that there is,
though yet Chrifts Body and Blood be there 5 which is
but the Lutherans Coniubftantiation : And do you not
know what Durandm taught in this ? and yet they that
chide him excufe him from Herefie. And had Durandm
never heard what ten Parents teach their Children ?
You prefently ftab your Papacy to the heart, when you .
fay [Seeing God Almighty is rejolved not to teach every Age
by immediate infallible Mif/ionants from him j "elf , but to
fend infpircd Ambafiadors to one particular generation only,
wd to leave thut generation to teach their Children fuccef-
fivelj till the day of judgement jvh at they learnt^&c. Thus
muchisjuft the Proteftant Religion. But then what's
iieeonie of thv infpired Infallibility of your Church? who
though -
(40
though they underftood not the matter when they came
to the Council, ( or though the Pope were an unlearn-
ed Lad) yet prefently can infallibly expound Scripture^
and defide Controverfies. As you praile Mr. Thorndike^
you might have accepted of the kindnefs of one Mr. war-
ley of Cam' 'ridge , in a Book lately dedicated to the Lord
Chancellor, called, The Nstnral Fanatic:-, w ho will al-
low the Church and Councils a higher way of certain
determination, than by Reafa • and will tell you how
doubtful its left to Realbn, whether there be a God, or the
Soul be immortal^ and will curb men th.it will let their
Realbn againft Councils or the Church. But to remem-
ber and rehearfe only the words that the Apoftles deli-
vered, is a work that Realbn may perform, without any
infpired infallihiity.
But if Tradition by immediate Parents, yea and Pa-
tters be fo lure, the Aha$nes^ the Greeks, and many
others, are fure that the Papacy is an Ufurpation : And
fo were tlie old Britain* , and the Scots -, a little before
Be da's time, who would neither conform to the Church
of Rome^ nor fo much as eat with them.
Pag. 42. You fay [if God Almighty will oblige me to
believe what wxs taught 1600 years before I iv.:s born^
how [hould be expect I j hould come to the knowledge of this,
but by fuch Books m were written in thofe times, and near
thofe times, and by the tejiimony of all Chriilian Countries,
what h&tb beat immcmoriallj believed by them, ever fincc
they were C ? - ■•''•]
Anfw. Well contradicted : This is our very Religion.:
We fhnd to Fincent. Lcmienf. Rule, Qvodfempsr, ubique ,
ab . But, 1. Here then Books be not made
ib unferviceable as before. 2. God, Almighty obligcth
us firft to believe his or before any others : And
F 2 how
C44).
how {lull we more certainly know what Chriit did and
commanded, than by thole that purpofely Wrote lb ma-
ny Gofpels, orHiftorics of it, that we might believe and
have Life by his Name. Sure the four Evangdiits and
the Apoftlcs Wrote what they Wrote (even to the ig-
iioraat ) to be understood and read. 3. We alio know
by the Books written near thofe times what then was re-
ceived by the Churches. And your Councils cannot
know it ( nor your Pope neither ) by any other means
than are known to others : for their extraordinary Inspi-
ration we never fa >v caufe to believe. 4. And I remem-
ber no one thing at all, which I do not receive, which
hath the Testimony of all Christian Countries that it hath
imm?mcrial'y been believed, by them ever ft nee they were
ChriftUns ; nor lhall I reject fuch when you prove it.
But that is, becaufe, de facto, I think there is no errour
that hath fuch a kind of Teftimony ; and not becaufe I
think it imfofftble : For as your part of the World is de-
ceived, e.g. to think that the Roman Supremacy was infti-
tutedbyGod, contrary to the judgment of alt the Greek
church, andofthetwaforementioned General Councils
at Conjlantinof.e and Cake don • fo I know not but it had
been poflible to have brought all Countries to the lame
deceit, or to have believed that chrift's Blood might be
denyed the People in the Sacrament, as a thing received
by Tradition.
We believe that the true Church infallibly believeth
what ever it believeth upon true Divine Revelation^and
that it can never fall from the Effentials of ChrifUanity ;
that is, that chriit- will (till have a true Church in the
World till the end. But we know that in many things
we offend all, and if every Mans will and Life is imper-
fect, and culpable, then fo is every Mans judgment -
and
. .C43)
and there is no Man living without many errours, who
hath the Exercife of Reafon • and the Church is Compel-
led of fuch erring Individuals : And why it is not potfi-
ble for them all to have thought that fome of their er-
rours came down from the Apoftles (as the Millineries
thought) I cannot tell. But whatever is truly proved
to be delivered by the Apoitles as the Will of Chrilt, by
Writing, or word, v.e will readily receive : And the Ei-
fentials of chriili anity we believe, and can prove to have
been both ways lb delivered . and fome things more,
(, as the Lords-day, &c) t
But you fav, pdg, 15. cc Can any imagine that
c< they who exfofed their Lives for their Religion, would,
{C if they could, Agrex together, [o notoriously to change it,
iC as to m/lke them\elves mot grofs idolaters, ly ado
cc Bread and wine, as the true Body and Blood of their C- c..»
" tor, and God 7 .'] Anftv, No, bun wemiy well imagine
tint good- Fathers may have bad Children, and that
Children are not born with a. Chureh-hiftorv*, or Coun-
cils v. ritten in their minds • and that worldly Clergy-
men may deceive^ and be deceived ; and tint even pious
Men might concur in the deceit: that is, Th.it the name
ofchrifSs Body and Blood being juftlyfrom the begin-
ning applyed to the Euchariir, as the Clergy grew for-
mal, ceremonious, felfilh, and worldly, they neglected
the explication of the fenfe andfpiritual part of the Sa-
crament , and grew to over-magnifie the external figns
in a way that tended to that advantage and honour to
themlelves, which for want of Learning and Grace they
could not by their worth attain : That the ninth and
tenth Ages which you chufe for infhmce were as a
Night of darknefs, having few Learned Men, in which
he that was but skilled in Greek and Helrov was t\kcn
for
C44)
for a Conjurer, or a Heretick^ other of your own Writers
befides Bellarmine do acquaint you. That the Popes were
ibme Boys, many Murderers, Simonifts, and moil horrid,
wicked, and ignorant Men, many by one Woman
brought in, and poyfoned after $ and that for forty Years
there were divers Popes at once contending for their fe-
veral Titles, almoft all Hiftories agree • That hence the
World was filled with Treafcns, Rebellions, Perjuries,
and all wickedneis, how many Hifbrians teftiiie . when
the Pope hath been judged by a Council for a Heretick,
and Adulterer, deflowering Women at his Doors. And
is it incredible that fuch Men mould degenerate from their
fore-fathers ? Or (hall a Fryar now come out of a Cell,
and tell the World, that becaufe the firft Biihops oiRome
were holy Martyrs, it was not poffibic for Pope John to
be fuch a blafphemous filthy Villain 5 nor for Pope Euge-
tiius to be damned as a Heretick and wicked Man by a
^General Council, and yet continue Pope after depofiti-
on: Gt fox Setgim to ule For mo fas as\\G did? Ifpeak not
of rarities^ or doubtful things : The Popes gfeateft flat-
terers lament them. Baroniits ad an. 912 faith \^*what
" then was the Face of the holy Roman Church ? How ex-
cc ceeding filthy when the mofl potent , and yet the mojlfor-
u did whores did Rule at Rome ? by whofe pleasure Sees
cc were changed^ Si/hops were given , and which is a thing
cc horrid to be heard, and not to be fpoken^ their Lovers
6Q (or Mates) were thruji into Peter's Chair^ being falfe
u Popes , who are not to be written in the Catalogue of the
cc Roman Popes, but only for the marking out of [itch
cc times : And what kind of Cardinals^ Pricfts and Beacons
cc think you we mufl imagine thefe Monjlers did chufe,
" when nothing is fo rooted in Nature^ as for everything
cc to beget his Ijh ? ] i ,1s not here a Succdfion fit to prove
the
C 45)
the Church of Rome to be the true Church? O happy
Succdfion ! 2 . And is it impoflible that iuch Men as thefe
iliould err ? and iuch Bifliops,Priefts, and Deacons fliould
change one word that was delivered orally from their Fa-
thers? Is not here a fure Foundation for a Man to build
his Faith and Salvation on ?
Gcnebrard mother: furious Papift (//'. 4. Seel. 10.) faith
£ <c In this one thing this Age was unhappy^ that for near
M an hundred and fifty Tears, about fifty Popes did wholly
"fall away from the iertue of their Ance/lors, being ra-
c< " ther irregular and Apolitical, than Apofiolic rl,~] Apo-
ftates makean Apoftolical Succefllon of Infallible wick-
ed Men. Reader, did not our Rational Difcourfer wife-
ly chufe the ninth and tenth Ages for his ground- work ?
Thefe are the very Ages whofeTeftimony he appealeth to.
Pope Adrian ( after ) himfelf, ( de Sacram. Confirm.
Art.q. faith, that there have many Popes of Rome been
Hereticks. And as I faid, Pope John 1 3 alixi 1 2 was in
Council Coniic! of Raiifhing Maids, wives, andwiddows.
at the Apoftolick Doors, and of committing man) Murders,
and he drank a health to the D.'vil ; and at Dice called for
help to Jupiter and Venus, and at lafl was killed in the
Act of Adultery,
Saith their Platina Q He w.ts from his Youth a Man con-
taminated with all d/jhonefy, and ftlthinefs 5 and if he bid
any time to [pare from his Lvfls, he [pent it in hunting^and
not in praying. — He faith, he wxs a mo ft wicked man, 0?
rather a Monger. — And faith, \_ that the Life of this
wicked Man being judged in a Council of Italian Bijhops,
ftr fear of them he fed, and lived like a wild Beast in the
woods7\
Pope John 23 Was accufed and depofed by die Gene-
ral Council at Conftance^ upon about feventy Articles^
which
C40
which you may fee in Binnws in about thirteen Columns,
viz. of Murders, Adulteries, Witchcraft, Simony, a
Heretick, obftinately maintained that there is no Life
after this 5 called commonly, The Devil incarnate . fafd
the Soul w.rs extinH with the Body, & a Beafis • dcnyed
the Rejur reel ion, &c. And for thefe the Council depo-
fed him.
So the great Council at £.</?/ depofed Eugezns the 4?^
as \_ a Rebel againjl the holy Canons, a notorious diftm ber
and fcandalizer of the peaee and Unity of the Church • a
Simonijf ; a perjured wretch • incorigible ; a Schifmatick,
and an ohflinate Heretick"] Yet is their Churches Succef-
iion continued from this condemned Heretick, w ho ftaid
in fpight of the Council that depofed him.
But you'll fay, Though the Pope may fo erre, yet Ge-
neral Councils cannot. A/ifiv. Thele very Councils
that condemned him,are now rejected by you, as is Ephef.
2. and many others : yea accufed as being mother
Church $ faith the Learned Cardinal Cajetan in his Ora-
tion at the Council at the Later ane [ub. Leon. 10. ( Bin. p.
552.) [This Novelty of Pifa (Mark Councils are No-
velists) fyrung up at Conftance, and vanished : At Bafil it
fpyung up again, and is exploded. And if you he Men it
will now alfo be reprejfed as it was under Eugen.4. f or
it cometh not from Heaven, nor doth it embrace the Princi-
pality of that One who is in the church-Triumphant , and
preferveth the Church-Militant • and which the Synod of
Pifa ought to embrace if it came from Heaven, and not as
it doth to rely on the Government of a Multitude. The
Church of the Pifans therefore doth far differ from this
Church of Chrifi : For one is the Church of Believers y the
other of Cavillers • One of the Houjho/d of God, the other
of the Erroneous : One ofchrijlian-men, the other offuch
AS
C47)
as fear not to tear the Coat of Cbrifl 5 and divide the Aty-
pical Members of chri\\ from bis Mvflical Body,
See here to what Novelty and • Apoftacy, even to be
another church: You think that General Councils have
fallen, as thofe Councils lay the Pope hath done. O but
thefe Men can corrupt nothing, becaufe the Martyrs
Avould not have corrupted it ! And yet even good Mens
pious credulity, believing ignorant Mens Dreams and
Vifions ( fuch as Gregorics Dialogues and BeH.t ihewto
any rational Man ) may do much to introduce Changes.
But if Changes be lb impofiible,becau{e Fore-rathers
were pious Men and of another mind, how come the
Greek-Churches to be Apoftatized ib far to Mahometa-
nifme ? and why do you accufe the Proteftants,or Greeks
of changing, If it was impolTible ( for ten Families ) to
do it? Sure then the jAbaffiHis^ Syrians, Armenians,
Greeks y eye, have their old Faith itiil unchanged, if it be
impofltble. Sure never fuch Viliany was charged on their
Bilhops as on your Popes. If .they may change, notwith-
standing their Fore-fathers Piety, why qot you ?
In the laft place I ihould fpeak to your Teftimonics
out of fome Ancients. But r. Why Ihould we put it to
the tryal of Fathers^whcn you dare not ftand to it,but fly
to the Authority and Judgment of your prefentChurch ;
that is, your Pope. 2. Can any Fathers fpeak plainer
than St. Paul himfelf doth, who caileth it Bread after
Confecration thrice in the three next Verfes ? Or did
the Fathers contradict him? If they delivered what they
received, we fee what that was. Is oral Tradition con-
trarv to the Scripture ? Is hot this a certain Argument?
Pvd\n 1 Cor. 11. faith oft that it is Bread after Confe-
cration ; t'^^that Speaker, or Writer is deceived, or a
G Decei-
C 4 8)
Deceiver,\\ ho faith, that he or any other Apoftle deliver
ed the contrary by word of Mouth.
y. Doth this Difcourfer mean fincerly in talking of
Tradition and the Fathers Testimonies, and yet never
once attempt any anfwer to all thole Teftimonies to the
contrary, out of their plain words, which our Writers
have copioufly and often cited. How many, and many
more, plain Teftimonies of the Fathers againftTranfub-
ftantiation doth one Edmundus Albert in m give you ? to
whichinltead of anfwers^a few meer words,or cavils are
returned : But all thele are overlooked by this Difcourfer.
But come, let us briefly try all his great proof of the
Tradition of the Fathers.
I. He begins with excellent Augufline ( who in a Car-
thage Council did help to quell the Pope's Ufurpation )
And out of many great Volumns he hath found, i. That
AtiXiin faid, that £ now it is no longer called Bread, . but the
Body of chrifl : ] The fame will the Presbyterians fay :
Do they not in their Directory fay, [ Take, eat, this is
the Body of chrift ] when they deliver the Sacrament f
Are they therefore for Tranlubftantiation ? Is it all one to
fay, [_It is not called Bread, and, It is not Bread?. J if the
Kings Statue be made in Marble or Brafs, you may well
fay. This is not now to be called Marble and Brajs, but
the King.
2, That Atflin faid [that Chrift gave us his very Flefl)
to be eaten to our Salvation 5 but no body eateth that Flejh^
unlefs he have firfl adored it.'] Anfvv. Any Proteftant will
fay the fame. For Chrift himielf hath faid, Except ye
eat the Flefi of the Son of Man, and drink his Blood, ye
have no life in you. Do not your own facrilegious Popes
and Clergy expound this of fomething elfe than the
Eucharift ? when they deny the Cup to the People ? If it
C4?)
be that wine Confecrated that is here meant, what
bloody wretches are you to damn all your Peoples Souls,
by denying them all that Blood of Chrift, without drink-
ing which they have no life ? But it's certain by i Cor.i 5.
that Chrift hath not Fleih and Blood in Heaven, and
therefore it is not the Heavenly Body, that,as iuch,is here
meant •, but the true fenfe of Chrift and Aufm is, that
as the Sacrifices are eaten by fuch, by, and for whom they
are offered •, fo his Fleih and Blood offered on the Crols
is the true Sacrifice for Sin, which mull be eaten in its
Commemorative Reprefentation orally in the Sacrament.,
and really in it felf by Faith, that the benciiirs of that Sa-
crifice may be ours. And who doth not adore that Chrift
\\ horn w e thus eat and live upon ? This is the fum of
all that the Fathers fay.
But let the Reader judge of Aujlins mind by plainer
Words, De Doclr. Chrijl. cap. 7. £ Le t no Man look to
what they arc ( mentioning the Bread and wine ) but to
r$hat they fignifc : For our Lord w.ts p 'leafed to fay, This is
my Body when he gave the fign of his Body.~]
And Cont. Max. I. 3 . cap. 22. £ we note in the Sacra-
ments, not whit they are, but what they jhevp ; For they are
ft?ns, which are one things and'fignific anotl er7\
And Epi/l. 23. ad Btnif. [if Sacraments had not frn.c
likenefs (or relemblance) to thofe things whereof they
arc Sacraments, they could not be Sacraments at all. From
this likenefs ( or relemblance ) they often take the names
of what they represent: Therefore as the Sacrament of
Chr:(l*s Bfldy is in fomc fort his Body, fo the Sacrawcnt of
Faith is Faith alfo.~]
You need no more than this of Auflin to Interpret other
Fathers, that call the Sacrament chnffs Body.
II. His next is Ambroje 7 \\ho faith thut^That when Con-
G z (ecrztion
fetration hath been made </' Bread, it is made the Flefh of
chrift~\ and [Chrift mJkffi 'this Sacra?vent~] and [the
Body of Chrift w.zs not bejore Confccration, but after, &c.]
Anfw. i. All thi^ the Presbyterians fay. Even as we lay,
It is not a Law till the King give the /U% or it is not his
Coin till his Authority and Stamp fo make it $ And are
they therefore of your mind? 2. Ambrose exprefly ex-
pounds his negation of ordinary Bread h no doubt it is not
ordinary Bread. 3. You would deceive the Reader by
hiding Ambrofe , who faith there, de Sacram, I. 4. c. 4.
[ This we afjerty how that which is Bread ( mark that )
can yet be the Body of chrift ] — [_ And if chrift 3 s Speech
hadfo much that it made that to begin to be which was not •
how much more is it operative that the things that were, both
Be-y and be changed into Something clfc -- ] And [As thou
hafi drunk the jlmilitude of Death, fo thou drinkeji the ft-
mtlitude of precious Bloody So Ambrofe, and fo the Pro-
teftants.
III. His next is Hierome » out of many Volumns he.
hath gathered thus much, that Priefts \_make the Body of
cWift with their jacred Mouth and Prayers.'} Anfw,
And any Proteflant will fay the like : He that faith [This
is the Bodj of cbrif] that' is, Sacramentally, will fay
that, under Chrift, his Minifter maketh it fuch. And is
this the Tradition ?
2. Let Hierome fpeak for himfelf, Contr. Jovin.i. 2.
[The Lord as a Type {or Figure ) of his Blood, offered not
water, but wine.~] Are not thefe words plain, till' the
Pope expound them?
IV. His next is Cyprian, de Coena Vom. And, 1 . Let the
Reader note, that even Belh.ywine de fcript. Eccl. in Cy-
prian faith, that the Book which this Man citeth as St.
Cyprians, [ was neither Cyprians, nor any Learned Mans ~
* and
CsO
and had neither words nor sentences worthy a framed
7Aan, Out fo$Ujh and ricvcu o tk Narations, and. Fables."}
2. The words cited out of it are [ Pant's ijkt quem P<>-
minus di[ci\uhs forrigebat, non efpue fed nat/^a mutatus^
omnipotent™ verb i \fA:vm eft Car J] But by \_Natura~} the
Author plainly meaneth \jhc Relative Nature'} and not
the Subfance. And it was not for nothing that Bellar-
tniae contcmneth him, who ever he was 5 for he is down-
right againft Tranliib/tantiation. Cap 2. He maketh the
difference between this and common Meat to be, that,
Corpora! is [mi c ret mens (pecie?n, fed zr-- tut is divinx
tnvifibili cfficientia probans ad efje pr.efentiam : It is but
the pretence of Divide virtue that he affirms to be with
the Speeds of corporeal [ttbjlmce. And plainer, cap, 3.
\_ when the Lord had [aid, Do this in my remembrance,
This is my Bod), and this my Blood~] as oft as by thef'e words
and this faith it is done , that fuperfnbjlantial Bread and
Cup, by \olemn bleffing hallowed^ profiteth to the life and
health of the whole Man 5 being both a Medicine and a Sa-
crifice, to heal our infirmities and purge our iniquities.
And lhewing the difference between the Common part
of Chrift's laft Supper, and this Spiritual Food, he addeth,
that, [_whcn the ferfideou-s mind of Judas touched this holy
Meaty and the fanflified Bread entred his wicked Mouthy
&c7S So that he calleth it fanclifed Bread after the Con-
fecration.
And Cap. — telling why Chrift calleth the fame both
Bread,B ! ood,Flejh, and his Body, he imh,[_Panis eft cfca,8cc.
Bread is Meat, Blood is Life, Flefh is Substance, his Body
the Church. And cap. 4. This Sacrament Chrifi calleth
fometime" his Body, fometime Flejb and Wood, fometime
Bread • a Portion of Life eternally, which he Communi-
cate th according t« thefe vtfthle thinfs Jo corporal Nature,
That
f52)
That common Bread being turned into Fief) and Blood, pro*
cureth Life and increase to bodies ( that is, our common
Conco&ion turneth common Bread into our Flcfh arid
"Blood • ) Therefore the Infirmity of our Faith being helped
by the ufual efjecl of things^ iy a [enable Argument is
tanohty that the effed of Life eternal is in Vifible Sacra-
ments • and thtit we are united to chrif, non tarn Corpora-
liquam fpirituali tranfitione,notJo much by a Corporal as by
a spiritual Tranftion, And cap. 6. His CoxjuneJion and
curs neither mingle th Person ^ nor unite th Subflances ; but
Confociateth Affettions^ and Confederateth Wills,
And the fame Author, or another,' in Cyprian's Works,
de Unci tone chryfm. cap, 7. Saith Q Our Lord at the Table
where he lajl feafled with his Dijciples, gave them with bis
own hands, Bread and ivine • but on the Crojs he gave his
Body to be wounded by the hands of Soulaiers, that the fin-
cere truth, and true fincerity, fecretly imprinted in the
Apoflles^ might expound to the Nations how the wine and
Bread w&s Flefl) and Blood • and by what Reasons the C li-
fe s agreed to the Ejects, and divers Names and Species
were reduced to one Efjence . and the Things figmfying,
and the things figni fed were called by the fame Names, (or
known by the fame Words ) By thefe p r iv Hedges of fu-
pernatural Grace, by the eating ef fanc~lificdBread,Leing
refrefhed, wafted, and anointed, &c,~\ Reader, here you
fee what Tradition faith.
Next out of 'Cyprian de Lap (is, he citeth words againft
them, that \_wilh defied hands and mouths receive the
Body, and drink the Blood of the Lord.~] Words which
Proteftants have more frequently than Cyprian ., and are
they on your fide too ?
Butj fhall Cyprian have leave to fpeak indeed ?• Epifl,
adMagn, cap, 4, \_wben our Lord catleth bis Body Bread,
con-
CS3)
we (ted by the adunation of man) Grains, he fleweth the
Union of the People whom he bare : and when he called his
blood wine, exprefjed tut of man) bunches of Grapes and
Kernels, and made up into one, he fgnifed one Flock unt-
ted,8ccr\ '
And Etijl. 63 M C Milium de sacram. Proving that the
Sacrament fhould not have iviter alone without Wine, he
faiths 2. [_That the Cup which is offered in commcmo-
ration of him le o']ered mist with Wine, For when
Chrift (aith, I am the true Vine, his blood is not water, but^
wine. Nor c m his blood, by which we are redeemed ana
Unci) fed, be feen to be in the cup, if wine be not in the
cup, by which Chnfrs blood is ftewed, &c.
And c. 6. we find the cup mist which Chrift offered, and
that it was wine which he called his blood, whence it is
apparent that the blood of Chrift is not offered, if wine be
wanting to the cup 3 nor is the Lords Sacrifice celebrated
faduefanclification, unlefs our Oblation and Sacrifice an*
fwerhisPaffien.
And cap 9. In the wine is (hewed the blood of Chrijr,
as in the water is underflood the People. (Is the water turn-
ed into the People?)
And cap. 10, So the cup of the Lord is not water alone,
nor wine alone, but mu(l both be mixed - even as the bod)
of the L»rd cannot be meal {or flower ) alone, or water
alone, but both muft be united, conjoined, and be bread by
compofition folidated.
And cap. 12. C As oft as we offer the cup in commemora-
tion of the Lord and his Paffion, let us do that which is
m wife (I the Lord did.~] So much of Cyprian. ;
V. The next cited by him is Tertullian, faying, L™'
fejh is fed with the body and blood of Chril}, that the Soul •
'may be made fat with Godr\
C 54 >
Anf». i . The fame we all lay, even when we Admi-
nister the Sacrament : See the like in the English Litur-
gy, and the Directory : Are we therefore for Traniub-
itantiation? 2. Jtisthe Reprefentathe body of chrifi, and
not real flefh and blood: For he faith, that he t hat cat-
cth fat fie Jh^ and dnnketh his bloody hath eternal life • and
dwelleth >n Chrifl and Chrifl in him^ John 6. 54, 56* But
the wicked ,that eat the body of Chriit Representative,
have not eternal life, nor dwell in Chriit.
Another citation {tomTertu'l/an is lib.de idololat. [To
touch the bod) of our Lord with thofe hands which give bo-
dies ts Devils -> &c]
An[rv. Here is no more than we commonly fay: This
Man fure would prove that the Liturgy and Directory
are both for his opinion. Is this the Proof of Univerfal
Tradition ?
Reader, Tertufiian calls it The body of chrifl, and fo
do we. Will you hear him fpeaking his own Senfe,
which this Man concealeth ?
Cont. Marriott) I. 3. c. 19. [ Sic enim Bens in Evange/io
quoq^ veftro revelavit, panem corpus fuum appellans, ut ejr
nine jam earn intelligas corporis fm fgurr.m pani dedtfjcj
c/ijvs retro corpus in panem Prophet es figuravit, ipfo Domino
hie fixer amentum poflea interpret aturo.~] That is £ For fo
God even in your Go/pel revealed, calling bread his body^
that jo hence yon may under fil and, that he gave to bread the
figure of his body • whofe body the Prophet formerly figured
into breads the Lord himfef being afterward to interpret
this Sacrament. 2 Here it is oft called bread, and this bread
is called Chrift's body, and the figure of the Body given
to bread it felf, as was prefigured by the Prophets before
Chrifl: had a body.
And Cont, Marc, l % 1,14. [Net panem (reprobavit)
quo
(55)
qu» ipfum corpus [uum reprefentatf] [ He reprobated net
bread, by which he represented bis oven very body.'] Pame-
lius hath no fhift, but to iay, that by repref ntmg he mean-
eth making prefent, iuch deceit will feem to prove to
them Univerfal Tradition : And he citeth many other
places, as for him, out otTertullian, which have no more
but his naming the Sacrament Chriji's lody and blood jus we
all do.
Co fit. Marc. 1. 4. c. 40. He is yet plainer, faying Q The
bread which be took and cliff ribnted to bis Difciples, that be
made his body, faying, This is my body • that is, the F \ GUR.g
of my body : But it had not been tbe Figure of it, if he had
not had a true Bods. For an empty thing which is a pban-
tafm, can ha+c no Figure • or if -he therefore feigned (or
made) bresd to be his body, becaufe he wanted (crhad
not ) a true body, then it was bread that ke mu(l deliver
up for us: It made for Marciorw Vanity that bread jhoiild he
Crucified. (All this is to prove againit Alarcion that
Chrift had a true body.) But why doth he call bread bis
body, and not a Pumpion, which Marcion hath inffeadof a
heart , not under flanding that this was the old figure of
Chritfs lody, (N.B. had Chrift fkfh then ? ) who [aid by
Jeremy X They have devifed a Device againfl me, f tying,
Come , let us caft wood upon his bread- that is, tbe Crofs
upon his body fo aljo making bis Te (lament in the men-
tion of the Cupy &c. And th.it you may know the old figure
of his blood in wine, Elaias faith, 6cc. fo now be confecra-
ted his blood in wine , who then figured wine in blood."]
Let any thing but ignorance and impudence judge,
whether here be not over and over, bread and wine r iter
Confederation, being the reprefentative and figurative b*
dy and blood of Chrift, or reprefenting and figuring them
fullier, as the Prophets had partly, or darkly done before.
H But
Hut notliing will convince fome that rage, and art
confident.
I repeat Tertu'uians reproof of" the denyers of the
certainty ofSenfe,Z,/'£ de Annim. c,iy. [The; (fere if Cau-
ses are freed from the infamy ( of fallacy ) how much more
Scxfe, which Caufes freely go lefore, &c. what doft thou
procacious Accademick ? T/jo/t overturneH the whole St Ate
of Life . thou trouble jl the whole Order of Nature • thou
blindeft the Providence of God him[elf, as if he had made
deceitful and lying Senjes the Ijords of all h s works, as
they are to be known, inhabited) difperfed, and enjoyed.-—
Jt is not lawful for us to call thofe fenfes into dou t, left in
ChriH we deliberate of the belief of them • Left perhaps
it be faid that he falfly (aw Satan cajl down from Heaven,
or falfly heard his Fathers Voice teflifying of him ; or w.s; de-
ceived when he touched Peter'/ Mother-in-Lawyr after felt
fome other Spirit of the Ointment, which he received as to
his Burial • and fome other relilh of the wine which he
Consecrated for the Memorial (or to be the Me-
morial ) of his bloody So much for Tertullian.
VI. He next citeth cbryfoflorne, faying that Chrift
[ makes us his Body, not only in belief, lut in very deed •
and that we eat and touch his Body.'] Anfw. And doth
he not fee how in citing thefe, he confutcth himfelf.
i . Chrift doth really make Us his Body ; that is, his Po-
litical and Miftical Body: But is it we that this Man
wcukl prove Tranfubftantiate into Chrift's Body? I
thought it had been the Bread, and not Us.
2. If we touch chrift 9 s Bod) it muft be his Reprefenta-
tive Body • for the Papifts hold that we touch not the real
Flefh'and Blood of chrif, but only certain Accidents, which
now are nottrje Accidents of Chrift s Body, nor of any
other Subftmce.
It
C57)
It would be tedious to cite out of Chryfoflome all that,
makes againft them. Let thefe plain words lerve to
notifie his mind [ Eptft. ad Cefar. The Bread is made wor-
thy to be honoured with the Name of the Flejh of Chriflfa
the Priejl's Consecration • yet the Plefo retains the proper-
ties of its incorruptible Nature-, as the Bread doth its Na-
tural Subflance, Before the Bread is fxuCllfied we call it
Bread • hut when it is Consecrated by the Divine Grace, it
deferveth to be called the Lords Body, thou h the Sub fiance
' of the Bread ft ill rcmaineth^]
Reader, This is the Tradition of the Church.
As to fome Mens Cavil, that this E iftle is Spurious,
it is fully confuted by Learned Men from fuflicient
Teftimony.
VII. The next cited is a word that feemeth, in found,
to be for them, in Cyril ( or lbmc think John ) of Jeru-
fale'ms Catechiime. Read the words Tranflated by him-
felfj It is that Sentence which above all in the Ancients
they mod boalt of, [yiz>. Do not look on it as b.ve bre.:d,and
bare wine 5 for it is the body and blood of Chrift : — For
though thy Senje fuggefl this to thee, yet let Faith confirm
thee : Do not judge of the thing by the tafie, but rather
from Faith hold for certain, fo that thou haf no doubt that
the b$dy and blood are given thee • knowing -and accounting
for certain y that this bread which is feen by us, is not bread,
though our tafte judge it to be bread • but that it is the body
of Chrif : And the wine which is feen by us is not wine,
hut the blood of ChrrlK']
Anfw. Here Idefire the Reader to note, i. That this
one Sentence is all that hath any words that found likehls
Sentence (that there is no true bread and wine) of all that
he bringeth to prove Univerfal Tradition* 2. That this
Book called Cyril's Cat, Myfiagog. is queftioned. 3 . That
H 2 the
C5»)
the Auther plainly declarcth himfelf againft Tranfub-
ftantiation.
Which I prove, i. The Aflfertion which he ftateth i%
that the bread and urine ( for fo he calleth them ) are not
[bare, or meer bread and w/»*]_but Chrift's body and
blooA ; which we all aflert •: As the King's Statue in Brafs
is not bare Brafs. 2. He next bids us not judge by our
tafle, that it is bare bread. And after when he faith it is
not bread and vpine,. and appealeth to Faith from Senfe,
it is but his repeating cf what he before aflerted • mean-
ing that though Senfe perceives nothing but bare bread
and wine,- yet Faith perceiveth Chrift's body and bloody
and io it is not to be called bread and wine, for all proper
denomination, is from the Form 5 and the Form of a Sa-
crament is Relative, (as of a Statue, Image, symbol,
Sign, &c.) and it is Relatively Chrift's body and blood,
So that it is but, that it's bare bread, that he denyeth •, as
we do.
3, Moft fully, he tells us his mind. Cat. 3. p. 235.
[For as the bread of the Eueharift after the Invocation of
the Holy Ghoft, is no more Common bread, but is the
body of Chrifl -, jo alfo this holy Oyntmsnt is no more meer
Ointment, nor ( if any one had rather fo [peak ) Common,
novo it is Confecratedr, but it is a Grace {or Gift ) which
caufeth the pre fence of Chriji^ and the Holy Ghofi ; that is 9
of his Divinity:'] So that if you take him to aflert the
Tran fubftantiation of bread^ you muft fay that he takes
Ojl alfo to be Tranfitbfantiate into Grace, or the Holy
Ghoft. For he faith, that one is fo as the other is changed.
That is, they are no more meer or common bread, or
Ojl,
VIII. His laft is out of Juftin Martyr y who faith
[_ We do not tafo thefe things as . Common md ordinary
bread, &c. An[ve>
C5P)
An\w. i. There is not one word in J 'uft in Martyr
here that we do not own, and fay ; ( nor do we defire to
worlhip God by any other Liturgy, or Order of Worfliip,
than that which he defcribeth as then the Practice
of the Chriftian Church. O that we might all unite in
that defcribed Order !
2. And if any may be yet unsatisfied what Tradition
faith, hear J uft in farther, A.oi, 2. (Truly the (veil)
[ivhen the Pre fide nt hath given thanks y and all the people
acclaimed, theje that with us are called Deacons, dijlri)ute
to every one present Bread and Wine and water,
and bring them to thofe that are abfentf] It is bread and
wine whendiftributcd.
And Dial. Cum Tnph. [ The Offering of Flower deli-
vered to be offered for them that were cleanfed of the Le-
profe, was a Type of the Bread of the Eucbarift, which
our Lord Jefus Chri[\ commanded us to make in re mem*
b ranee of his Paffionf\
Thus you fee to what his boaft of Univerfal Tradition
is come.
Read but Da/Uus de Cult it Latinorum, and you will
fee that there Universal Tradition was againft them.
The forefaid Author of the Dialogue, called, [Full and
eafie fatisfaclion which is the true Religion,'] to thefe fore-
mentioned addeth more, which you may rcid,pag. 140,
&c, viz. Iren.tii-s laying, [For .ts the bread which is of
the Earthy receiving the Divine Invocation, is not now
common bread, but the Eucharifl, con fifing of two things,
the Terrene and the Coelejlial, &c. Lib, 4. ^.34.
Origin in Mat. 25. calling it [Bread, and a typical and
fymbolical body y which profteth none but the worthy Recei-
vers, and that according to the proportion of their .Faith ;
which no wicked man eateth, &c t
Eufeb.
(6o)
Eufeb.Gefar. Demonftr. Evang. I; i.e. 10. [Celebra-
ting duly the Memorial, of the body and blood of cbnjl —
Seeing we receive the Memorial of this sacrifice, to be per-
fected on the Table i by the Symbols of his bodi and moft pre.
thus blood—UbS. He delivered us to ufe bread as the Sym-
bol of his own body,
Ephr. (in Bibiioth Photii, p. 4 1 *- Ed.Auguih) The
body of Chrift which Believers receive, lofeth not his fenji-
ble fubftance, and is not feparated from the intelligible
(rrace.
o
And ad eos qui filii Dei, &c [ Take notice diligently,
how takin* bread in his hands he blefledit, and brake it,
/.^Figure of his immolate Body . and he Ue[\ed
the Cup, and gave it to his Difcifles, as a Figure of his
fretious blood.
Theodoret in Dialog, de Immutab. againft an Eutycbian,
who pleaded, that Bread in the Euchanft was turned in-
to Chrifts Body, faith, [The Lord who called that meat
and bread, which naturally was his body, and who again
called himfelf a Vine, did honour the Viftble Signs with
the Names of his Body and Blood \ not having changed their
Nature, but added Grace to Nature,'] Can any Proteftant
fpeak plainer than this ? .
And Dial. i. [The Divine Myftenes are Signs of the
true Body. . . .
And further, anfwering the Eutychian, he iaith, [By the
Net which thou m made art thou, taken : For even after
the Cmfccration tie myflical Sig^s change not their -Na-
ture, for they remain in all their fir'ji SUBS TA Nl t,
Figure, 4nd Form, andarevifible, and to be handle* M
before?, This is not plain enough for aPapift.
Nor Gelafim cont. Neflor.& Butuh. [Verily the Sacra-
ment of the body and blood of Chrift which we take ts a
, J J Divine
C60
Divine things for wh^cb and by which we are made parta-
kers of the Divine Nature ; and. yet it ceafeth not to be
the SUBSTANCE ^NATURE ofbreadand
wine : And certainly the Image and fmitit tide of the Body
and Blood of chrifl are celebrated, in the action of the My-
pries.*] O dark layings !
£ Cyr:l,A'ex. in /< ?*$• c > 14- U^'c' 11 ^ t0 Hi W^*W&
Vijci'jfes jragr,;j/,ti of tread, JayiHgjTakc, cai y this is
my body.]
Facundus is there cited as from Molinxus (!.o. c. 5.*.
404. though I have not the Author) laying \_ire c.U!
that the body and blood of Chrij}, which is the Sacrament of
his body in the Consecrated bread and cup. Not that the
bread is prop'rly his body, and the cup his blood, but because
they contain the My fiery of his body and blood.']
To thefe I might add plain Teltimonies out of moll of
the Ancients, who write on this fubjed: Such, e.g. as
thefe words of Gregor. Nyjjen Or at. de B apt if. As the Al-
tar natura r ,y is but common Stone, but being consecrated be*
cometh a holy Table, an unfpotted Altar ; fo the bread of the
En chart ft is At fir ft ordinary, but being myjlerioujly facrificed >
it is, and is called, The body of Chrifl : , and is effectual
to great things : And as the Trie ft who was yeflerday
a Lay-wan, by the blcffing of Ordination is made a Teacher
'*f Godlinefs, *nd a Steward of the Myflcries, and though
not changed in b:dy or jhape, yet is changed and made better
as to his foul, by an invifible power and grace . fo alfo by
the fame consequence water, being nothing but Water of it
felf y yet bleH by the heavenly grace, reneweth man by
working in him the fpiritual regeneration.
Is Stone in the Altar, or the Priefl ordained, or miter
in Baptifm tranfubftantiated ?
If Charles the Grcar was a Hereticfc, the Pope is great-
ly
(62)
ly beholden to a Heretick. In his Epift. to Alcunius he
faith, [Chrifi at his Suffer did break the Bread to his Difi
rifles, and likemfe gave them the Cup, in Figure of his
body and blood • and [o left to us this great Sacrament for
cuf benefit!] This was his Tradition.
Amalarius Praef. de Offic. Ecclef. [/ am [wayed in all
that I write by the judgment of holy men and godly Fa-
thers ; yet what I judge my [elf I [peak : Tho[e things
which are done in the celebration of Divine Service^ are
done in the Sacrament of the Paffion of our Lord, .ts he
him[eif commanded. Therefore the Priest offering the bread
with the wine and water in the Sacrament, doth it in the
fie ad of chrifi 5 and the bread and wine and water in the
Sacrament represent the fiefi and blood of Chrijh For Sa-
craments are [omewhat to rejemble tho[e things whereof
they are Sacraments. Therefore let the Priefl be like to
Chrifi, as the bread and liquors are like the body and blood
if Chrifi. ~]
[The Sacrament of the body of chrifi is in[ome manner
the body of Chrifi : For Sacraments Would not be Scra-
ments, if in [ome things they had not the likenefs of that
whereof they are Sacraments. Now by reafon of this mu-
tual likene[s, they are often called by that which they repre-
fin\ — ■ Sacraments have the virtue to I ring us to tbofe
things, of which they are Sacraments!]
Walafridus Strabo de reb. Eccl.cap. 16., faith, [Chrifi
gave to his Di[cipies the Sacrament of his body and blcod in
the [ubfiance of bread and wine 7]
Bernard an. 1120. Serm.de Pur ific. Alar, faith, [The
Boc'y of Chrifi in the Sacrament is the food of the Soul, not
of the Belly . therefore we eat him not corporally^ but in
the manner that chrifi is meat, in that (ame manner we
under fi and that he is eaten. And Serm. de S* Martin.
The
C*3)
The fame F/eJl) is given us to this day, but Spiritual I)
not Corporally^}
To conclude, If the words This is my Body are to be
taken literally, then fo are the reft • [ This Cup is the
New Te[iamcnt in my Blood.J And then the Cup is
Tranfubftantiated into the New Teftament.
And he that at once doth believe that Chrift hath a.
Glorified Spiritual Body , that Fleih and Blood doth not
enter into the Kingdom of Heaven , that the Bread and
Wine ceafeto be Bread andwine^ and are turned fubftan-
tially into the very Flejb and Blood of Chrift , and yet that
the Pope and his Clergy are not Enemies of Chrift and
Souls, who deny this Blood to the People, and give them
but a half Chrift and a half Sacrifice, when he is praifed
by all Saints for warning them from their fins in his Blood -,
this Man and his Leaders ieem to be Educated in fuch an
Academy, as F eft us thought Paul had been, and to be
made by Satan the Stumbling-block of the unbelieving
World, to perfwade them to laugh at Chriftianity as we
do at the Fopperies of Mahomet\ Alcoran •, and to make
all the Nations of Heathens and Infidels believe that they
cannot be Chriftians, unlefs they will be mad and fenfe-
lefs too : While Senfes, Reafon, Scripture, the Hiftory
of the Church, and Writings of the Ancients,the Traditi-
on and Judgement of the far greateft part of the Church,
together with Charity, Humanity, and Peace, are all
denyed in obedience to one Man y that, becaufc one Prince
and his Clergy made him the firft Biihop in hisEmpire and
Councils, feigneth hi mfelf to be the Univerfal Monarch
of the World •, and undertaketh an Apoftlefbip and Go-
vernment at the Antipodes ( when his zealoufeft Bimops
formerly fome of them thought there was no fuch place -, )
and obligeth himfelf to the care of Souls farther than
I Drake
C*4)
Drake and Candijh Sailed , even in abundance of un-
known Lands 5 and fas his Agents oonfelfed to the Ah af-
fixes ) where his Miflioners have no accels.
The ium of all the Hiftory of this Matter is, The Fa-
thers culled it as we do, fometime Chrift's Body, and
fometime ^he Figure, or reprefentation of his Body, and
often Bread : And from the Name, in the dark Age, the
Thing grew controvated, and France was the chief Seat
of the Contention: Bellarmine himfelffaith,that an. 820.
[PafchafiusRatbertus,^ Abbot ^ was the firfi Man that fe-
rioujly and copiottjh Wrote of the truth of the Body and Blood
of the Lord in the Euch riji againft, Bertram^ who he
thinks was one of the firlt that Wrote againft it. Bell, de
fcript. Eccl.Johan.Parifienfis and the Sorbonifts concluded
that neither Opinion was de fide : But the Pope chanced
to be on the other* and the Council of Trent hath now
made it de fide. Qu. Whether the Sorbonifts knew not
that Tradition which Parents teach their Children ? nor
any of thofe that were againft Ratbertus ?
But the Difcourfer pretendeth in the end to Anfwer
Objections : But he rirft made them himfelf fo thin, that
he might not defpair of faying fomething, which a Man
deep in his Cups, or one that is little ufed to the Exercife
of his Brain, might poffibly. take for a Rational Anfwer.
But if the Reader be a Man that will be at fo much pains
to efcape delufion, as to Head over the Arguments
againft Tranfubftantiation in the forementioned (little)
Book of R, B. and then try whether he can here find
them Anfwered 5 I may conjecture that he will not boaft
©f the Difcourfer's performances.
He begins the Objection with a [ why doth not this
marvelom change appear to our Senfes, as well as other
mrvthfts mrh : as the wtter turned into Wine, &c]
Icon*
C'5)
Iconfefs it is ftrmgc F-'e/b and Blood, that no fenfe can
perceive : But affiritual Body may be out of the percepti-
on of our Senfe. But did not the Difcourfer know, that
it is another kind of Objection that we make ? Not {yvhy
doth not God fhe.v m t e Miracle to our Senfe? ] but {whe-
ther God deceive all our- Senfes and Intellect which there
perce;ve Bread avd wine , -when there is none ? 1 It is not,
whether Senfe perte foe Ckrifl ? but, [n'Av/7- seafeper^
ceive Bread and mni ? ] It is not, whether Senfe tk> pri~
lativfy nrtperceiv ; but, whether it here Ptfit fatly trre %
and the firft intellective perception of the fenfate Object,
be an Errour ?
But under the Coats of this firft part, he brings in a
little of the true Objection at laft, [ i; // wc>dd f.^ow, that
" we mght call in quejiion the whole Myjlery of Cbriftia-
" nity, &c7\
His Aniwer to all is, By & liftimRia* of Miracles ;
feme are to convince Unbelievers • fomt to ?aniii$c and
fave Believers : And thefe are not to he the oljecl of our
Senfes. He inftanceth in Baptism, if winch ^ as an outward
and viCiole Si<?n* is wrought an invifi'le Grace in the Soul
of the baptized • though view the Chid as much as you
will, you can by none of your Senfes perceive any mutation
wrought.
Anfw. As your Tranfubjlantiation feemeth devifed to
make Infidels, io doth your Doctrine of £aptj(w ieem
made to make AnabaptiJIs. Is it by a Miracle that Bap-
tifm givctli Grace to the Adult, or not ? If not, will not
Men rather turn Anabaptifts, than believe that Infants
can have no Grace by Baptifm, but by Miracle $ when
that Sacrament was inftituted to give Grace to the Adult
without a Miracle , and Scripture mentioneth no fuch
difference of the Effects ? But if it be by Miracle to the
I 2 Adult,
(66)
Adult, is it not alfo by Miracle, that Men receive Grace
by Reading, Preaching, or other means ? You'll never
prove one a Miracle, and not the other. And before we
come to the Difpute between the Jefuites and fome Fry-
ars, the Armimans againft fome Caivini[ts^ whether all
Grace wfu\ed be a Miracle, we mud beftow more time
to agree of the definition of a Miracle, than is congru-
ous to our prefent bufinefs. Overdoing is undoing :
They that will make Men believe, that all Grace and
Chriftianity is a Miracle, I doubt, do but drive men from
the belief of all.
But this Difcourfer tells us, that you fee no change on
a Child. Anfw. And is all a Miracle that is unieen ? Is
God a Miracle ? Are Angels and all Spirits Miracles ? Is
the Soul of a Man, or of a Beaft, or the Life of a Plant a
Miracle^becaufe unfeen? Then all Grace however wrought
is a Miracle ♦, yea, and every thought of a mans heart
both good and evil.
Is all a Miracle that is done by God alone, without fe-
cond Caufes ? Then his moving the firft created Motor
were a Miracle. And yet who can fay, that no fecond
Caufe is uled in the conveyance of Grace ?
But if you could prove that Word and Sacraments
work Grace by miracle, you would make us lefs wonder
that it is no more common : And here the Prieft cannot
do this Miracle when he will, for it muft be on a difpoled
Subject : But your Priefts can make Bread to be no Bread,
by miracle, when they will. But S. Paid faith, Are all
works of miracles'? But how much greater Miracles your
Priefts are feigned to work, than the raifing of Lazarus 9
or any fuch like 5 and how your feigned Miracles are
confufed, is fhewed fully by the forefaid Author.
But the Qjieftioa, whether the Sacrament work by.
miracle/
C<7)
miracle, is one • and that, whether it be it felfa miracle, is
another. Gods workings are fecret to us,as the wind whole
courfe we cannot defcribe^^.j.But is theSacrament it felf
a Miracle ? The Word is not lb : Baptifm is not fo : You
feign not your Confirmation to be lb : (though Cyril a-
forefaid make the change of the Bread and of the Oyl to
be alike.) And is only this one Ordinance a Miracle ?
But if it were, what's that to the pofitive deception -of
all ourSenfes ?
He tells us of the Hypoftatical Union, anlwered be-
fore: What Senfes are deceived by that? Doth Senfe
judge that Chrift was not God ? Or that there is no Tri-
nity ? Or that a Virgin may not conceive ? Not at all :
Senfe neither tells us that it is fo, or that it is not. There-
fore to tell us of things hidden from Senfe,. is impertinent.
All the fpiritual and nobleft parts of N iture are out of the
reach of our bodily Senfes : But Senfe is our only firft
perceiver of all its own proper Objects, and the Intellects
firit perception of them, is only as they are fenfate.
But the only pertinent Anfwer given, is, \jve may al-
way truH our Senses about their oven Objects, and in due
eircumjlances, and when tve haze not pofttive grounds to
think, either God Almighty by himfelf, or by an Angel \ or
permijfn'ely by a Devil, represents things otherrvife than
they are7\
Anfrv. When things are represented otherrvife than they
*/*<?, it is either in other Jenjib/e qualities than they havc y
or elfe fomething elfe is under thofe qualities, than what
thev naturally fignifie •, or elfe it is by altering the Senfe,
Organ, or Medium. The firft is a meer contradiction :
To male an Object, to be what it rv.ts not, is ufual ; but to
make it at the fime inftant to he what it is not, is a con-
tradiction. Therefore by representing you cannot ratio-
nally
f68)
nally mean this •, c. g. To rcprefent a rough thing as
imooth, a little thing as great, a white thing as black,
by real alterations or thole qualities making them to
be fo.
But to make them feem fo, when really they are not
fo > muft be by the failing of the Medium, Organ, Scnfe,
phantafie, or Intellect,
i. And for the Medium, no doubt but God can fo al-
ter it eafily, as to deceive all mens Senfes : And in our
prefent cafe, where all the five Senfes of all the found
men in the World, that try, are pretended to be deceiv-
ed, God is able to do it, by altering the Medium of eve-
ry Senfe that hath a Medium : (For whether tacius have
Any diftinct from the Organ is undetermined.)
2. And the fame is to be laid of the Organ^ Sexfe,
Phantafie, and Intellect : Quoad potent/am, no doubt but
that God that can annihilate them can deprave them w hen
he pleafe, and make a man fenfelefs, deceived, doting,
melancholy, or mad •, either privatively, by withholding
his neceffary natural aids 5 or poftivelj, by overcoming
contraries.
But the Queftion is not, Whether God can do tiiis per
potenti m ; but, Whether he will do it, or can will to d*
it in fuch cafe as ours, in confidence with his Governing
wifdom and Goodness, and that Truth and Con/lancj which
he manifelteth in the Government of the World. That
he may and doth penally make men fenfelefs, mad, and
dead, we doubt not ; and that thofe that would not re-
ceive the love of the Truth, that they might be faved,
may permiflively be given up to ftrong delufions to be-
lieve a Lye : That all they might he damned that believed
not the truths but had pie a fur c in unrig hteoufnefs, 2 Theff.
2. ii 3 12*
But
e<*9)
But that God doth thus (not penally, but) as a bleffing,
and not upon mens forfaking him and his Truth, but
while he is communicating Himfilf and hU Truth to
them, and to make a Deceit or Lye the ordinary Means of
Truth and Holinefs, and that he fliould do this ordinarily
as the Govormur, Bene faff or, and Saviour of Mankind, and
lb make Falfliood (not of his permitting, but of his own
effecting) to be the ordinary way of frvina men; all this
is contradiction • contrary to his Will revealed in Nature
and Scripture, and contrary to his Perfection, who need-
ed not to Govern the World by Deceit or Lyes, as want*
ina; neither Poivcr, ivifdom, or Goodnefs to do otherw iie.
Grace confifteth in the illumin.tticn of the Mnd, which
revealeth Truth, and not in theErrour or Deception of
the Mind, by deceiving the Scnfes. Gods Works of Na-
ture difcerned or perceived by our Natural Senfe and
Phantafie, and lb by Natural Apprehenfion of the Intel-
lect, are his fir ft way of Revelation, in which he is moft
clear and confiant. And we are Men and Animals be-
fore we are Believers, and Faith is grafted into the Stock
of Nature, and reclifietb, illuminateth, elevateth, per-
fecieth it, but doth not deftroy it, deprave it, deceive
men, and make them mad or fenielefs.
But you tell us of many excepted Cafes, in which God
may deceive our Senles, or we may not truft them : No
doubt, we may never truft them for that which belongs
not to them, but is beyond them, (as to know whether
God can affume Flefh, whether he can impregnate a Vir-
gin • whether there be Trinity in Unit)' : There be many
things that Senfe is no Judge of, one way or other. But
when there is an ObjecJ near m, Auly fcituate, which
Senfe was made to perceive, (as a quantitative, fapid^
•eUrifcroHs, &c, fub/lance) and there is no natural defect
sr\
C7°)
in Medium, Organ, Senfe, Phantafie, or Natural Intellect,
to tell us of fuch excepted Cafes, is, i. To deface or
(lander the Providence of God, who Governeth by truth
and order : 2. To make Mercy to confift in the iubverfi-
on of Nature, and Penal Atts to be gracious. 3. To
leave man utterly uncertain of every Article of Faith,
yea , to bring in Scepticifm , and leave us no cer-
tainty in the world. For if God may and do, in fo many
Cafes as you name, deceive all the Senles and Perceptions
of all men, even his faithfulleft Servants in the World,
by Himfelf) by Angels, by Devils permitted^ hov fliall
any man know when he doth otherwise ? You fay, [7///
vpe have pojitive grounds to think thcfe.~\ But, if God can
do thas^ how can you tell that he doth it not without tell-
ing «*, or giving us pojitive grounds'?. Andwhoknow-
eth what thofe pofitive grounds are? Or that ever he
read or heard a word, or law a thing which you may call
a ground ? For if you know not fir ft that the perception
of Senfe, and things fen fate is true, you know not that
ever you heard any thing to fufpend your belief of them :
Or that what you hear is true. And how will you prove
againft the Infidels, that God cannot Lye, or deceive us
by a Prophet, an Angel, or a Voice from Heaven, or a
Writing, if he can and do daily deceive all our Senfes,
about fuch Objects as they are made to perceive ?
And what a War do you raife againft the life of Faith,
as if it had not difficulties enough without fuch ? If you
Ihould fet a Candle before Infidels or doubting per/ons,
and fay, \Jfthisbe Light , the Gofpel is fa/fej would
you be a Preacher of Chrift or Satan? And if you fet the
Confecrated Bread And wine before them, and fay, [See
them^fmell^ tafte, feel them; if this be Bread and wine
the GofpeJ is falfe . ] would you not be the Preachers of
T nfi^eltf\; ? ]3 u t
C70
But I muft confider, that fo much being faid already
in the forefaid Dialogue, which you give no AnrVer to,
I muft ratlier flay till that be anfwered, than repeat it
here.
But, at the leafr, you fatisfie us, when you grant, that
we muft truft our Senfes 'till we have poftive grounds for
the contrary • and lo the Cafe before us is this : You (ay,
[They that will be faved, muft believe that God in mercy to
illuminate mens minds, deeeiveth all the found mens Sen-
fes in the world (that try) about thofe things which natu-
rally .ire the proper Objects of Senfe, and duly qualified.;
and they m'tfl believe that there is no Bread or H ine,\\hen all
their Senfes prejent them .is fneb to the Intellect, which ne-
ceffarily perceive th them ' fuch m [enfrte ; and they mufl
believe , th.it to govern, illuminate, and fanftife teshj fuch
deceit, God enable th every Priefl, how ignorant and wicked
fcever, to verefie all the Contradict 'ions before opened, and
to vpork, as oft ns he pleaieth, in every Mafs above thirty
Miracles, with many miraculous aggravations.] And
the proof of all this is, i. That the fame Cbrift that laid
[_l am the Door, the true Vine, the shepherd, a Sower, a
Hu^.' an dm. in, the Bridegroom^ and [pAe ordinarily by Par i-
bles 7 an 4 faid in this fame Sacrifice or Sacrament [This
Cup is the New Teflament in my blood :, ] and in all thefc
is to be under flood p.irahltcally ; yet firing at the fame
time [This is my Body] is to le understood literally, though
S. Paul over and over caU it Bread."} 2. And this Expofi-
tion is delivered to us by the Rom in Pope and h'S Clergie,
and by forne Prices in the Ninth and Tenth Ages^ when
their oven Writers fay, that their Popes were M nflers not
to be named, and the Ages were for horrid Ignorance the
(hame of the Church. And after that, 1 2 1 5 . a General
Council Decreed it fir ft, which alfo Decreed the. ex termini
K tion
th>» of aUcbrifiUns ds Heretjckj, that will believe mans
Senses berei» y and tbeExeommunicatisn and Ds portion of all
Temporal Lords^ that wiU art exterminate at fuck Subjects^
and the difobliging their Vaffals from their jiUegiAxce^ and
giving their DcminUns tc ethers z irhile yet the Judgment
And Tradition of the fur great? jl f&rt of the cbrijian
World is againft them^ and the Writings of the Ancient
Doctors oj c the chttrcb - and the Pope and its Clervie dire
not pretend to bait received by .Memory and Tradition
.in Expof'tion of the Bible ', nor do give m any proof of
their pretended Tradition of this one Text^ that is con-
(id-rable^ bejides their own bare word, This is the true
Cafe.
TOSTSCTQTT.
Since the Writing of this, I firft faw Lar rogues French
Dilcourfe, and therein the Citation of Joh.Parifl-
enjis Opinion about Tranfubftantiation, and the sorbo-
nifis determination, that neither -Opinion was /. f^,and
determined : And did they not thdi know Trad hi in ?
Since that I have leen Biihop Coufns Hiitory of Tran-
fubfhntiation, which lb ful!y proveth the NoveJty of it>
as againtt the Tndiion and Judgment of .' irch,
and that by Fathers a nd many Councils, in , t jjj
Innoc. . and evenufrer Petrtu Blefenfls^ and 5
nen'is {\\ ho firft mane it) ?nd Innoc, 3 , *vho in'il
ed it, few believed it in moil Countries, jis^tl 1
Authors confei$ 5 that I repented t. ; ut I had
(73)
medled with die Citation of Authors, which is done by
him (6 much better : And indeed fuch imaaf* cr I
ftimonyis produced by him, (and th.it ba fmall
Yolumn) to prove that the conitant judgment of the
Chudl hath been agaiulr. TraniubfLntiati-n , thai I
need not refer the doubting Reader to any other Book,
nor provoke the Papiih CO trv their if length upon any
other: ,"i hough HtfpijgidM^ Ujbfr, cbamier,
. and abundance more, have depx k beyond
all reafonable contradiction.,)
FIP^IS.
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