Full text of "A second true defence of the meer nonconformists, against the untrue accusations, reasonings and history of Dr. Edward Stillingfleet .."

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PRINCETON, N. J. 



Collection of Puritan Literature. 



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Division 

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1 

J A SECON D TRUE 

DEFEN6E 

OF THE MEER. 

Nonconformifts, 

AGAINST THE 

Untrue ACCUSATIONS, REASONINGS and 

HISTORY of Dr. EDWARD STILLING. 

FLEET, DEAN of St. PAVLS, &c. 

Clearly proving that it is ( not fin but ) duty 

I r i. Not wilfully to commit the many fins of Conformity. 
2. Not Sacrilegioufly to forfake the Preaching of the 
Gofpel. 
I 3. Not to cea(e publick worfliipping of God. 
I 4. To ufe needful Paftoral helps for falvation, though 
\ men forbid it, and call it Schifm. 

Written by RICHARD BAXTER, not to accufe others, but to 
defend Gods Truth, and the true way of Peace after near 20 
years loud Accufaticns of the filencing, profecutirjg Clergy 
and their Sons. 

With fome Notes on Mr. Jojeph Glanviles Zealous and Im- 
partial Proteftant, and Dr. L. Moulws Chara&er. 

I Tim 6. 5, 6. Perverfe difputings of men of corrupt minds, and deft it ate 
of the truth ', fuppofing that gain is godltnefs : from fuch withdraw thy 
felf. Butgodlinefs with contentment is great gain. 

LONDON; Printed for Nevil Simons, at the Sign of the Three Golden 
^ocks at the Weft-end of Sc. Pauls. 168 1 . 



Church, but fuch of them as Were capable, by continued own- 
ing their Baptifmal Covenant, not nullified by proved Herefie, 
or inconfiftent wickednefs. And they held, that no unwilling 
perfon was capable of a fealed Pardon of fin, .and (oof Church- 
Communion, nor yet of the true receiving of the ufe of the 
Paftoral office : And therefore that none but free Confeuters (hould 
have the Sacrarrent, nor be related to the Paftor, as his Flock of 
that Church : but the reft (hould be conftrained to live as Cate- 
chumens, or Hearers, as they were capable, in peace and quiet- 
nefs (and fuch as the Magiftrate found meet to be.tolerated in 
other Churches, who only were uncapable in that). 

2. They were fo far for Presbytery, as to hold, that i. If 
men of competent fufficiency, were made by ordination Elders, 
ejufdemordhis with the chief Paftor, to be his AffcffQrs and Affi? 
ftants, though they (eldom, or never Preached publickly, but 
helped him in Catechizing, or private over-fight,, and in judging 
perfoqs and cafes 5 and though in neceffity they laboured with 
their hands, it would not be unlike the ancient Government, 
q,, And they judged, that all Gods work (hould be done in the 
greateft concord, and with the beft mutual couniel and help that 
might be 5 and therefore that Synods are to, that end of great 
u(e: and if they were appointed at dated times and places, it 
would by order, ; be a furtherance to^their ends: But they were 
not for their aflfuming a proper Regent Power, by Majority of 
Votes over the minor part, or the abfent Paftors, and thought 
that when fixednefs occafioned that ufurpation,occafional Synods 
fro re »ata y were better. And 3. They judged, that Presbyters 
are ejufdew ordhm with Bifhops, and that no Bifhops have a di- 
vine right to govern without the Presbyters affiftance,.nor to 
deprivethemof any of their power, nor their Churches of true 
Difcipline or Wor(hip, nor, the people of their Rights 3 much 
lefs to ufe any forcing power of the (Word on any. 

3. They were fo far for Epifcopacy, as to hold it lawful, -and 
Convenient, tliat the particular Churches have one that (hall have 
a Priority,, and' in many thing? a Negative Vote,, as the Incum- 
bent 



bent in each Parifh hath among his Curates a fort of power. 
And that the Presbyteries and Synods have their Moderators* 
and if they were fixed durante vita, and bad a Negative Vote in 
Ordinations, they could confent } fobeit they were duly chofen 
as of old, and had no forcing power by the fword, but only a 
Minifterial, teaching, guiding power. And fomeof them thought 
it of Divine right, that the Apoftles and Evangelifts have Suc- 
ceflbrs in the ordinary parts of their office 5 and that to have a. 
fpecial care of many Churches, and their Bifhops and Elders are 
fome of that ordinary part. 

4. And tothe Eraftians z\(b they granted, that the King tsthe 
Sopreii e Governour of the Church, by rhe fword, or force* 
and that we muft obey him, not only when he enforceth the 
Commar is of Chrift, but in all a&s of outward circumftance 
and order, left by God to his determination, and not appropri- 
ated to the Minifters office. Thefe were the thoughts then of 
the far greateft part of the Minifters that I had then knowIedgoE 

$. 2. Before the King returned, many Epifcopal Doftors and 
great men, perfwaded thefe Reconcilers, that thus much would 
be accepted to our common concord, if the King werereftored : 
But fome faid, They do but dedeve you, there are fuch men 
now got into chief credit on that fide, that will filence yoi> all, 
and ruine you, unlefs you will follow Grotius, or be of the 
French Religion, or unite in the Pope, as Prwapium nmtaiis, 
and obey him, z&xhzWejkrn Patriarch, 8c :. And when you arc 
all turned out, what men havethey to fupply your places? 

p. 3. But when the. King came in, and encouraged the R-e- 
concilers with the promife of his help, they made the attempt 
in 1660, and 1-6-6 1. the Hiftory of which I need not repeat, 
Since that forefeeing what the iilencing of fo many Minifters, 
and the afflifting of the people of our mind would unavoidably 
oaufe, we pleaded, we petitioned the Bilhops to have prevented 
it, by thofe neceffary mean* which they might have yielded 

to. 



to, to their own a dvantage: But it was all in vain. 

$. 4. When the Ad of Uniformity came out, of about 9000 
Minifters that kept in, and had laid by the Liturgy before, a- 
bout 7000 Conformed ( to the altered Liturgy, before any of 
them ever favv it, fave a few) by declaring their Affent and Con- 
fent (the A& being known before the Book could be Printed:) 
and about 2000 were filenced by that Aft. How they behaved 
themfelves fince then, is fo well known, and I have here, and 
oft declared 5 and how the Plague firft, and the burning of the 
Churches next, and the Kings Licenfes next, did give them the 
opportunities and calls which made more publick Preaching feem 
to them a duty, that Khali not make recital of it. 

$. 5. AH this while abundance of inveftiues were poured out 
againft them, by many of the Conforming Clergy, in Prefs and 
Pulpits $ and especially in the ears of great men, to whom we 
had no accefs, but feemed what fuch men delcribed us to be. 
The new Laws againft Conventicles, and the Oxford AQ of Con- 
finement had been added to the firft: Many were hunted up and 
down, their Goods and Libraries diftrained - many were impri- 
fbned - fome there died : The Informers and Profecutors grew 
weary : They faw the feverity came moft from the Prelates, and 
the Parliament, the King being not for feverity therein : The 
Juftices grew unwilling of Execution 5 the Preachers reprove 
them, and call on them to put the Law's in Execution 5 they are 
greatly offended at the Kings Licenfes } they continue to accufe 
us for Schifm at leaft, and fome of Sedition $ though we invaded 
none of their Temples , nor askt them for any part of their 
maintenance. And the Parliament and Prelates were fofharp a- 
gainft us, that we durft not tell the world what we refufed iriC 0*/- 
formity, and why, left we put them upon more feverity 3 nor in- 
deed could we do it, the Prefs was lockt up by fb great penalties. 
But while we were forced to filence, we were lowdly called to, 
to fay what we fiuck^at, and what it was that we would haze. And 

after 



after 17 years fuch calls, I ventured to name the things 5 and 
hence is theftorm of the prefent indignation. 

$. 6. I had before proved the wilful defer t ion of our Mini- 
ftry, efpecially when the King Licenfed us, to be odious Sacri- 
ledg: To this lam told, of mens power to filence fuch as they 
think deferve it : I grant it, if they truly think fo: fomaythey 
on juftcaufe alienate Churches, and Church-lands, and hang Ma* 
lefa&ors : but not when no fuch caufe is given, nor at their 
pleafure. 

$. 7. When in the fitft Plea for Peace I had ftated the cafe of 
our Nonconformity, I intended to bring the Proofs of each par- 
ticular fuppofed finful, as I after found occafion. And meeting 
with abundance that accufed us of dilloyal, rebellious Princi- 
ples, I largly delivered my own, and many others judgment of 
Civil and Eccefiaftical Authority, the power of Princes , and 
the duty of Subjefts 5 and therein alfo wrote fome Anfwer to 
Four Accufetions brought againft us. 1 . That we pretend Grace 
againft Morality. 2. That we hold, that things Indifferent be- 
came unlawful, if commanded. 3. I largly confuted Bifhop 
Morleys falfe Accufetion of my Dodtrine, of the Magiftrates 
power to command things unlawfully accident 5 and Dr. Parkers 
Do&rine of Scandal. 4. 1 confuted them that extend our Non- 
conformity to things which we refufe not. All this in the Je- 
cond Plea for Peaces which none yet, that I know of, havean- 
fwered. 

$. 8. And left any (hould think that we are all for Negatives, 
I wrote a Treatife of the only Terms of TJmverfal Chriflian con- 
tord, which I value above all the reft, being affured that the 
Churches will never otherwife be healed, than by that impartial, 
fure, and eafie Catholick way, which fome have reviled, but 
none fince, that I know of, confuted. One Learned Biftiop 
(that had a chief hand in our prefent Impofittons and eje&ion} 

I c 



Idefired to tell me, which is the way of Christian concord, if 
this be not : And he maintaineth, That the only, way is to obey the 
Colledg of Pajiors, who are to govern the Catholick^ Church through 
all the world, per Lit eras format as. Where this Colledg, as one 
governing power do meet, or how they fignifie their Majority 
of Votes, and in what cafes, and who mud gather the Votes 
(from Abajjia to Mofcovie), and An how long time, and how 
they (hall come to all men with certainty } and whether the eje- 
cted, filenced, and excommunicated, &c. may appeal to them, 
,&c. I could not learn. 

§. 9. In the fame Book I fufficientiy confuted Mr. H Dodwelh 
great Book, Xvhich denyeth not only the Churches and Mini- 
ftry, which are not by uninterrupted Epifcopal Ordination, but 
alfo the ordinary falvation of all fiich Churches, as having no 
covenant promife, by valid Sacraments delivered them. He hath 
pretended fome defence in a late Book of Letters: to which, if 
they can be Printed, I hope to give eafily a fatisfa&ory reply. 

$. 10. "hi theiamebook hePublifheth fome old Letters of his 
ito me, for the Dioceian frame of Government^ the notice of 
which beforehand 'given me, caufedme to Publifh a full Treatife of 
.Diocefan Epifcopacy , containing the Reafons why we cannot 
fwear to it, or approve it, or fwear never to endeavour any re- 
forming alteration of the frame here fetled, and exercifed. And 
whatever Mr. Dodwell pretendeth to the contrary, if this Trea- 
tife do not fully anfwer his Letter, and juftifie us in this part of 
Nonconformity, I am unable to judg of the Caufe, but am 
willing to recieve any better information. 

$. 11. And becaufe I find fal(e Hiftory, not the leaft caufe of 
ordinary miftakes, and men cry up Diocefan Prelacy, as the an- 
cient, and chief cure of Schifm * I gathered an Abftraft of the 
hiftory of Bilhops, and their Councils, that the true matter 
of fait might not be fo commonly miftaken as it is. 

$.12. At 



$. 1 3. At the fame time came out againft me, Firft, a book of 
Mi\ John Cheyneys, the miftakes of which I mantfeftcd in .iii'-Ati- 
fvver: And afteiward old Letters of Mr. liink^eys, to which I 
had an old Anfwer, which I eaft by, and now Publifhed : and 
another Accufer, abounding with untruths, called the Impleder^ 
and another called Reflections, or Speculum, &c. And another 
Book of Mr. Cheneys, full of moll pitiful miftake^ All which, 
with Juftice Roger L'Eftrange's Dialogue, and fomeothers, lan- 
fwered together in a Book called the Third Defence ef the Non- 
con fur mijls, &c. 

§. 13. Bat the Accufations of Dean Stillingfleet in his Sermon, 
made the loudeft noife : In the Anfwer to which, I chiefly defired 
to have come tofome underftanding agreement with him, about 
the true ftate of our Cafe and Controverfie^ and to that end, 
craved his anfwer to feveral neceffary queftions} but was not 
able to procure it. And now in his large Book, where I hoped 
to have found an Anfwer to them, I look for it in vain. Yea, 
though Mr. Hik^ringhiU roughly provoked him but to expound 
his own Text, and tell us intelligibly, what the fame Rule is, 
which the Apoftle would have all walk by, he will not do it 3 
but inftead of that, withunufual gentlenefs tells me, he w\\l not 
differ about it, if I do but grant, that it is a Rule that binds us 
all to do all that lawfully we can for peace, which I cheerfully grant 5 
And if it be not lawful for peace and concord to forbear filen- 
cing us, imprifoning us, accufing us as odious for not wilful fin- 
ning, and urging Magiftrates to execute the Laws againft up, 
and making us feem Schifmaticks for not forbearing to Preach 
theCofpel, to which we were vowed and coniecrated by Ordi- 
nation 5 I know not lawful from unlawful : I cannot yet get him 
to tell us, what he would have the many fcore thousands do on 
the Lords Days, that have no room in the Parilh-Churches } with 
many fuch, which our cafe is concerned in. 

$.14.1 thought his Book had been an Anfwer to mine,and other 
mens Prefaces } but I find that I was miftakeri : Indeed he nameth 
five Books written againft his Accufation: what he faith to Dr. 
Owen, and Mr. Alfop, I leave to themfelves to confider of: The 

B Countrey 



Countrey Gentlemans Cafe, in fenfe, was this, Whether all they 
that thinly Parifh-Communion, under the prefer? t imp options, tob* 
fin, are bound, till they can change their judgment ^ to forbear all 
Church-worfhip , and live likg Atheifls, and jo be damned ? And 
who can find any Anfwer to this ? 

Mr. Barret's Queries out of his Books,he faith,next nothing to, 
but a dark retra&ing his Irenicon : And far be it from me to blame 
him for growing wifer.But why took he no notice of hisown words, 
cited in the Epiftle, out of his late Book againft Idolatry, threate- 
ning us all with no lefs than damnation, if we prefer not the purefl s 
Church. 

And as to my Defence, his Book is nothing like an Anfwer, 
unlefi his naming me, and citing out of that, and other Books, 
a few broken (craps, which he thought he could make (bme ad- 
vantage of, may be called an Anfwer. 

$. 15. Iconfefs he hath made fbme attempt to tell me what the 

National Church of England is 5 but fb Independently, as I doubt 

his party will difown it with great offence. In fhort, he holds, 

that there is no fuch thing as a Church of England, in theufual 

Political fenfe, having any Conftitutive, Ecclefiaftical, Supreme 

Power, Monarchical, or Ariftocratical, or Democratical, but it's 

only the many Churches in£#g/tf#^,affociated by the common con- 

lent inParliament,&c. Remember that be and I arefo far agreed; 

As I was writing this,! faw a Book againft him of a friend,too 

much forme, andfomewhat freely handling the Dr. which in this 

point would help them 3 byfaying,thattheG?ffzwtff/0/z having the 

LegiJIafive Church- Power, may be the Conjiitutrve,Regent part : But 

he confefleth to me, that he fpake not what is, but what he counts 

fhould be,or wifheth^ for the Dr.himfelf had before toldus,that the 

Convocations of Canterbury and Torl^ are /»w, and not united to 

make oneNational^Jupreme power fa that this proveth no one political 

Church of England at all,but only 2 Provincial Churches xnEnglandi 

$. 16. The Dr. hath fo ;udiciou(ly and honeftly pleaded our 

Gaufe in his defence of A.h'iihop Laud^nd his Book againft Idola- 

*ry,that I have made his words the firft Chap, of this Book,which 

g£ he candidly ftand to, I fee not but our principles are the fame; 

$. 17. His 



$.17 His book is made up of 3 parts.I.Untrue Accufat'tons.II.lIn* 
trueHiftorical Citations (abundance). III. Fallacious P^eafonings. 

Would you have an undeniable Confutation, adhominem, in 
few words? 

I. As to his Principles, he faith himfelf as aforefaid, Of Ido* 
lot. p. 7. We are Jure that wilful ignorance, ox chooftng a worfe Church 
before a better, k a damnable fin. 

II. As to his Hiftory of the old Nonconformifis, read A. Bifhop 
Bancrofts dangerous Pofitions, and Heylins Hiftory of Presbyte- 
ry, charging them odioufly with the clean contrary, and the Ca- 
nons made againft them on that fuppofition. 

lII.As to his Hiftory, and Dodtrine againft the Ele&ion of Bp s , 
which I pleaded } ("as I have fully proved his abufe of Hiftory in 
it,)I repeat Wx.Thorndihgs \vords,F or bear.of Penalty, It is to nopur- 
pofe to tall^of Reformation of theChurchtoregidar Government, with- 
cut refloring the liberty of chooftng BiJf)ops,and priviledg ofenjoying 
them to the Synods, Clergy and people,in the making ofthofe of whom 
they confifl, and by whom they are to be governed, tbat I need mak$ 
no other reafon of the negleft oj Epiflopacy, than the negleS of it. 

O pray hard to God to provide greater ftore of skilful, holy 
and peaceable Labourers for his Harveft, that by the found be- 
lief of a better world, have overcome the deluding love of the 
honours, profperity and pleafures of the flefh, and wholly live 
to God and Heaven. 

POSTSCRIPT. 

Dr\. Edward StiUwgfleet Irenic.P. 1 J 4. faith, TheEpifcopal 
men will hardly find any evidence in Scripture, or in the 
practice of the Apoftles, for Churches confiding of many fixed 
Congregations for worfhip, under the chargeof onePaftor^ nor 
in the Primitive Church, fortheOrdination of aBilhop, without 
the preceding Ele&ion of the Clergy, and at leaft, confent and 
approbation of the people 5 and neither in Scripture nor Anti- 
quity, the leaft foot-ttep of the delegation of Church-power} fo 
that upon the matter all of them at laft make ufe of thofc things 
in Church-Government, which have no other foundation but the 
principles of humane prudence, guided by Scripture 5 and itwerc 
well if that were obferved ftill. B 2 P. 370. Surely 



P. 370. Surely then their Dioceflfeswe re not very large, if all 
the feveral Parities could communicate on the fame day, with 
what wasfent from the Cathedral Church. 

P. 361.4 doubt not but to make it appear,that Philippi was not 
the Metropolis of Macedonia, and therefore the Biftiops there 
mentioned could not be the Bilhops of the feveral Cities under 
the jurifdi&ion of Philippi, but muft be underftood of the Bi- 
ftiops refident in that City. 

P. 157. There muft be a form of Ecclefiaftical Government o- 
ver a Nation, as a Church, as well as of Civil Government over it 
as a Society governed by the fame Laws. — For every Society muft 
have its Government belonging to it, as fuch a Society: And the 
fame reafonthat makes Government neceflary, in any particular 
Congregation, will make it neceflary for all the particular Con- 
gregations, joyning together in one vifible Society, as a particu- 
lar National Church: For the Unity and Peace of that Church 
ought much more to be lookt after, than of any one Congregation. 
jP. 131. The Churches power, as to Divine Law, beingonly 
dire&ive and declarative 5 but as confirmed by a Civil San&ion,is 
juridical and obligatory. 

P. 1 1 3. Where any Church rs guilty of corruptions, both inDo- 
ftrine and in pra&ice, which it avoweth, and profeffeth, and requt- 
reth the owning them,as neceflary conditions of Communion with 
her 5 there a Noncommunion with that Church is neceflary, and 
a total and pofitivefeparation is lawful and convenient. 

P. 117. Where any Church retaining purity of Do&rine, doth 
require the owning of, and conformingto any unlawful, orfufpe- 
&ed pra&ice 5 men may lawfully deny Conformity to,and Commu- 
nion with that Church in fuch things,without incurring theguilt of 
Schifm---P.i 19-Let men turn and wind themfelves which way they 
will,by the very fame argument that any will prove ftparat ion from 
the Church of Romete wful,becaufe (he required unlawful things a? 
Conditions of her Communion 5 it will be proved lawful not to 
Conform to any fufpe&cd,or unlawful pra&ice,^r.-They lay the- 
imputation ofSchifm on all them who require fuch Conditions of 
Communion, and take it wholly off from thofe who refufe to 
Conform for Conscience lake. A Pre- 



A Premifed explication of the Equivocal 
word CHVRCH. 



THE word [_ CHURCH] being Equivocal, is unfit for our deputation, 
till explained : It fignifieth ( being a Relative ) ieveral forts of related 
Affemblies : which are diftmfi. I. In their Matter : A C hnrch of jews, Turks, 
Chriftians, of Orthodox, and of Hereticks, being not one thing. 

II. In the Efficient : A Church of Gods infticuting , or a Church of 
mans. 

III. In the Fnds. i. *A * Chriftian Affembly at a Fair, or Market, or Court 9 
$r *Army, &:• is not the fame with an Affembly for Religious exercifes . 2 Nor 
an- affembly for Legiflation about Religion (in Parliament J, or Confuta- 
tion in Synods, or Difputation in Schools, the fame thing as an AJfembly for 
ftatedworflnp. &c. 

IV. In the Form, or Conftitutive Relation to the Correlate : And fo the 
great difference which now concerneth us to note *r, that a Church of Equals in 
Office and : power*/ one thing, and a Political Society, rtlated as Gover- 
nours, and governed, is another. 

The firfi is either an accidental AfTembly, or elfe a defigned Affemby by 
confent. 

This la ft is either an t/fffemblyof Lay- men, which may be agreed hereafter 
to come under Government \ and may meet to worfhtp God without a Paftor ', 
and this m Politicks is ufually called, a meer Community. 2. Or an isfffem- 
bly of Rulers or Paftor s in equality ( as to Government there ) : And this ie 
called, a Council, Synod, Dyet, Parliament, Convention, &c. 
^%. A Governed, or Political Church is of Three fever al Species (at 
leaft ) as there are three Species of fuch Government, 

I. A Chriftian Family, confifting of the Family- Government, and Govern- 
ed, living together in holy faith, love, trorfirip, and obedience to God\ the 
^JM after being their Teacher , Ruler, and Guide in worfhtp. 

II. A Paftoral-Church, confifting of one, or more Paftor s, and Chriftian 
people correlated as his flock. > for the benefit of his Paftor al- office, which effen- 
tially containeth a power to teach them, lead them in worftiip, and govern 
them by the Keys, as a Afinifterial Judg, who is fit for that (fommmunion. 
Aft together is called alfo, the Power of the Keys, and is fubordinate to 
Chrifts Teaching, Prieltly, WRuHngO^ic*. 

III. A Royal, or Magiftratical Church, confifting of a Chriftian Sove- 
raign, and Chriftian Subject, to be ruled by \m Jword, or forcing power 
under Chrift, and his Laws, for the fpiritual and temporal welfare of the Joci- 
$ty, and the glorifying, and plcapng the Lord-Redeemer* 

And- 



,And\V. The Univerfat Church comprehtndeth all thefe thrte as partly and 
h moft excellently , properly, and fully called, the Church, confiftingof Jefus 
Chrift the c l iefPaftor (Teacher, Prieft, and King, an eminent pcrfett Policy ) 
With all Q)riftians,as the fubjetl part : It is vifible in that the fub jells ,and their 
profejfion, and worfljip are vifible ; aod Chrift wo* vifible on earthy is vifible in 
the Court of Heaven, his Laws, and Providence are vifible, and he willvifibty 
\udg the world, and reign for ever : And it is no further vifible. The con ft i- 
tuttve, effential parts, are only Chrift and his fubjett-body : The nobleft, or- 
ganical parts of that body, are Prophets, Apoftles, Evangeltfts, Paftors, and 
teachers* 

In all this, note i. That we have no difference, that ltyowof, about the 
Church in any of thefe fenfes before mentioned, except, 

1 . How far men may invent (fhurch-forms for Gods fervice ( without Gods 
particular prefer 'ipt , er inftitution ). 

2. Whether it be true, that the King is fo perfona mixta, as fame hold, as 
to be King and Prkft, and to have the power of Church-Keys, and Word, 
tind Sacraments. 

$. Whether over and above the loweft Paftoral Churches Chrift hatWinflttu* 
tedadirelh, fuperior Pa floral fort of Churches, to rule the inferior , in Faith, 
Worfhip, and the Keys of Difcipline, over Paftors and people ? And if fo, 
what are thefe fuperior ? aft oral Churches, whether Dioce fan, Provincial, Na- 
tional, Patriarchal, Papal, or all I And if Chrift made no finch, whether men 
may n>a\e them f 

2. And note, that we are certainly agreed, that the Magiftratical form of 
forcing power, And the Paftoral form of Sacerdotal power of the Keys, are 
two, though the fub)e£bs floould be the fame (though ufually the Church is in 
the Commonwealth, as part): And none of hs deny a Chriftian Common- 
wealth, Monarchical , Ariftccratical, or Democratical', and though fUk 
power be over the Paftoral Church, it is but Accidental, and not Eflential 
to it. 

I. And note, that the chief questions which Iput to the Dr. about this, were y 

i. What is the Paftoral ipecifying form of the Church of England? And 

2 Whether it be of Divine or humane Inftitution : And I have brought him to 

mdnttin, that there is no fuch Church of England at all. And of the Royal 

Church or Kingdom we are Members as well as he. 

4. And Laftly, Note, that as to a Paftoral Church, we agree, I fuppcfe, in 
diffiiguijhing a Tranfient, and a fixed relation. And as he that is a Licenfed 
Phyfician, atleth as fuch where he cometh, though related fixedly to no Hofpi- 
tal, fo if a lawful Minister of Chrift, either fixe dm another Church, or 
in none but the Vniverfal, be called, pro tempore, for a day, to do his office in a~ 
tf>they Church, he atteth as Chrift s Mini ft er, and their ? aft or for that daytj 
And if a travelling Chriftian ]oyn with them, he is a Member for that day: 

Tea, 



T*a, if the whole company intend to meetlrut that one day hstjoe fame relation j 9 
to the fame ends, it is a temporary , transient Paftoral church. 'But fixed in- 
habitants for order and edification, ought to fix their relation andpratlice. 

Though moft of this be fat d after, where he calls me to it, J thought meet 
hereto premife the Explication of the word Q Church] (as m divers bcokj 
largely I have done of the word [^Separation] left J tmitate him in leaving my 
explication to the hinder party and we fljould depute aboht a viord, which the 
Reader , and perhaps our /elves under fi and not. 

But we have a greater contr over fie than this, rifen fivce A. Btficp Laud'/, 
and Grotius'/ Reconciling defign, v z. what the- Catholick vifible Church ut 

1. Protefiants have hitherto held, as the firs} point of difference from the 
*Papifts, that the Univerial Church hath noconftirutive Head, or fupreme 
regent Power but Chrift. He hath fetledno one, Vicarious, or deputed fu*. 
preme, Monarchical, Arifjtocratical, or Democratical. 

2. ^Accordingly they noted the difference of two forts of Paptfts, fornix that 
fet the Pope as fuperior, above Councils \ others (as the Council of Conftance, 
andBzhl, and the French, that make the General Council fupreme, the Pope 
being Prefident, as the chief of the Patriarchs, and having many priviledges, 
as Primate to the Vniverfal Qourch. 

$, But that in truth, the Catholic^ governing power of Pope, and the other 
four Patriarchs, was but a humane form of Church Policy fet led in one Empire 
a*a National kind of Church, and the Councils were Vniverfal as to the Em- 
pire, but not toall the Chriftian world (which I have proved again ft W. John- 
fon fully ) cahd by the Emperour that had no power over other Nations, and 
fubfcribed by his fubjetls, 

4. That the grand cheat that hath fet up Popery, is the turning this Natio- 
nal Church into an Univerfal Government of all the Chriftian world \ and 
pretending that Chrift, or his isfpoftles fet up that power over all, which Em* 
per ours, and Imperial Councils fet up only over one Empire. 

5. We are f worn again ft Forreign r j urifditlion by the Oath of Supremacy. 
For the Roman Empire-it dtjfolved, and if it were not, we are no fubjetls of it. 

6. Tet we hold that all Chriftians flionld live in all poffibHe love and concord, 
conn felling, and helping one another for the edification of the Churchy and thai 
fuch fiuncils are ufeful thereto , as may be had withont more hurt than good. 
But that no Vniverfal governing power be fides Chrift s ( for Legiflation, fudg- 
ment, or Execution) is needful to that concord; nor is a Government of the 
whole Chriftian world by any one Political fupreme, Pope or Council, or Col- 
ledgof Paftors, or Cardinals, any more poffibleor lawful to be fought, than 
that all the Kingdoms on earth have one humane civil Sever aign; though all 
Kings, as well as all Bifho^s, are bound to ferve Cod with thegrcateft concord - 
that they can attain* 



But now he that will read many late Divines of England , will find, that 
they are come to this^ I. 1o take the fore/aid Conciliate and French Papifts 
to be no Papifts *, and fo to make it a contr over fie , de nomine ( in which, for 
vie, let them have their liberty ). 2. To take it for a necejfary things to believe 
that the Universal Church in the world hath one fupreme governing power 
under Chrift, and is a Society, that is, therein vifibly one. And $. That 
this one ruling powers either a General Council, or the Colledg ol all Bi- 
fhops on earth. 4. <y4ndthat the Imperial Church-form was, and is to be 
the true Vnivcrfal Church form, viz. a General Council, where the five Pa- 
triarchs are by them/elves, or by confent. 5. And that the Tope is Prefident, 
and Principium uniratis, and chief Patriarch, and fo to be obeyed by us* 
6. And that there is no true way to Vniverfal concord but by being of this one 
Church, (b formed, and obeying its Ihiverfal Laws, which they fay, chrift 
hath given them power to make. 7. And that they are Schifmaticks y and not 
to be tolerated that do not fo confent and obey. 8. Tea, fay fome to us in En- 
gland, it is compelled obedience to all the prefent Impofkions, which only 
muft cure our divifions, without abatement for Vnion, or any Tolerations. 

A great deal more of this nature is built on this principle, that the Church 
in all the earth is one, asunder one humane fupreme Government, under 
Ghrift, and that all are Schifmaticks that are not of it, Wobey it not. I 
am not for difgracing any by the name of Papifts that refufe it ', whether the 
French, and the councils of Pifa, Conftance andBzfil Jhall be called Papifts 
I contend not : But whether thofe fatfe principles be the only terms of concord % 
wife men will cant elou fly confide?* 



ADVERTISEMENT. 

THere is lately Publifhed a Book of the fame Authors, cal- 
led, A Search for the Englifl) Schifmaticks by the Cafe 
and Characters I. Of the Diocefan Canoneers. 2. Of the 
Prefent Meet Nov confer mijis. Not as an Accufation of the 
former, but a neceffary Defence of the latter, fo far as they are 
wrongfully accufed and perfecuted by them. And is to be fold 
by Nevill Simmons, at the Sign of the Three Golden Cockj at 
the Weft-end of St. Pauls. 



A 



THE" 

CONTENTS. 

N Hiftorical Preface; Dn Stillingfleet's^W^^/rrfj//* hishcni- 
-con. 

A Premifed explication of the equivocal word Church. Whkt the Catho- 
lick^Church is in our judgment ■, and what in the judgment of many of cur ft- 
lencers.* 

Chap. i. Dr. Stiliingfleet' J large and plain Affer ting of our principles in 
his Defence of Archbiftjop Laud, and Rom. Idolatry. p. I. 

OdZ^.l'Some Animadverfions onhis Preface : W\nther the Jtfuitsftrft brought 
in Spiritual Prayer. A full explication of our judgment about Spiritual 
Prayer. His hard terms againft mens (high or low) chufing Tutors for 
their Children. p. ii. 

Chap. i>Dr. Stiliingfleet his Ace u fat ions examined: His confufion • difputing 
a queftion not ftated : What he means by [Our Church ~] by Communion] 
ty[Conftant]6y [Withdrawing] by [Separate Congregations] what 
Separation / am for or againft. Whether he fay true t that wy Tremen- 
dous aggravations of the fin of Conforming were written without 
the leaft provocation on their part : or that as defigned to repre- 
fent the Clergy as notorious Lying perjured Villains, p. 22. &c. 

Chap. 4. His falfe Hiftory of the old Nonconformifts : as if Bancroft's 
Danger. Polit- Heylin, and all fuel) old accufers, utterly belyed them, 
and the Canons mxd: againft them had afalfefuppofition : his citations ex- 
amined: More proof of his falfificat ion : 1 he difference between the Non- 
conformifts and the Brownifts. How we are ufed by them. The Refor- 
matio Legum Ecckf. how much for difcipline. I now add my rtcjueft to 
the Reader that would know how far the firft Reformers were of the Non- 
conformifts mind, and againft our new Church-men^that they would but read 
Cranmers, and the other Drs. words cited by Dr. Stiliingfleet in the 
end of his Irenicon (and left out of Dr. Burnet's Hiftory) and Bu- 

t cerV 



The Contents. 

cert Scripta Anglicana, De Regno Dei, his Cenfura of the Litur- 
gy, & de cura Anim. &o 
The (lory of Dr. Ames, Paul Bayne, Dr. Fulk, &c. Dr. Humphrey's 
Letter to the Bifhops, P*55> 5&> 57* — 

Chap. 5. The falfe Reafoninn and accusations of his fecond part, p. 59, 

My judgment and cafe ftated, which he faljly reporteth : Others Cafes con- 
fidered Whether j$ be true, That there is no other reafon againfl; Commu- 
nion than was- at the firft Reformation. Difference proved, 1 . From the 
things impofed. 2. From the defign of the impofers. $. From the effects. 
4. From the cafe of the Church with whom we Communicate- 5. From 
the additional reafons for our Preaching, p. 64. 

What he would have them do that cannot have room in their Churches, p. no. 
His appeal to my cafe at Kederminfter, framed, p. 71, &o 

His falfe fuppofition that rnofi of my Hearers need not our Teaching, be- 
caufe they fometimes hear in the Parifh-Churches, p. 73. He acquits 
them from Sehifme that feparate, if the Church be Schifmatical, 74. 
(I defire the Reader then to Read my few Sheets, called A fearch 
for the Englifh Schifmatick.) More miflakes. p, 74 ^ fy 

Chap. 6. Whether he be no Chriftian, that is not a fixed Member of a par- 
ticular Church ? The Dotlors Schifmatical Error Confuted-, p. 76. (He 
by this condemneth Apoflles, and Evangelifts that were Itinerant and nn- 
fixedyfuch as Bucer de Regno Dei would have fent abroad) my excepti- 
ons about Churches and Miniflers juflifiedandhis Calumny detetled, p 80. 
Whether I give too much to the People, or am againfl the Rights of Patrons, 
or Magiflrat.es , p. 82. Many more Calumnies to p. 89. He accufeth y 
tne, as accufingthem for naming the fins that I dare not commit, p. 89. 
More of his vain Accufations to p. 92. Whether he be for filencing us 
p. 92. More of his Calumny , p. 99. Confiderable Quere to him, 
p. 94. Hew he w:uld drive men to Separation, p. 95, 96. He is come 
to Self condemning Gentlenefs, in expounding his Rule and Text, Phil. 3. 
i<5. p. 97. His fad Er.numeration of the caufes ofjufl Separation, p. 98. 

Chap. 7. He begins his Third Part with more falfe Accufations y p. 99* 
His Hift or yf or Diocefan Churches againfl Parochial found fallacious, 
p. 1 GO; &o His vain Plea for the Englifh Frame, p. io6,&c. Ht 
faith, Its probable while the Apoftles lived there were no fixed Bi- 
Jhops, or but few, p. io3. ( And Dr. Hammond faith, No Subjeft 
Presbyters J whether John Fox mre the Publifher {or Prsfacer) of the 



The Contents. 

Reformatio Legum, &c. p. iop. Difcipline hard, but »9t urtneceffaZ 
ry, p. in. 

Chap. 8. What the National Church of England is, fully difcuffed; and 
the Dotlors Self contrad'dions detected: He denyeth any true Political 
Church 0/ England: He and we more agreed, than he and other high 
Church-men^ that are for a Conftitutive Political Government, p. 1 12, 
113, &C. He maieth it an introduction of Popery , to hold that a Chhrcb 
miift have a Conflutive Regent Church-power j and fo fafteneth Po» 
pery on the Majlers of his cauft. 

Chap. 9. Ho at the mutual Con fent of Pafiors and fiocl^is necejfary to the 

very being of their Relation. 
About Thirty Proofs from Antiquity , that the Vmverfal Church was for 

about 10 CO years of that mind, and decreed it, p. 128, &C. 

The necefftty of confent proved from the Nature of the work 5 where the rea- 

fons of it are all plainly opened p. 133.&C. 

7 he Dotlors contrary furmifes and falfe Hi fiories fully confuted^ p. 136, 

&C. 

Chap. I O. Of the impofed Vfe of the Crofs in Baptifme, and denying 
B apt if me to the refufe rs. p . I 5 3 . 

His vaine excufes confuted. Whether the Crofs be ufed as a Sacrament. His 
difingenuous falfifying my words of the ufe of Crucifixes and other Ima- 
ges, p. 156, &C. 

What the Papifis afcribe to Sacraments: p. ic&. 

Chap. 1 1. Whether the Excommunicating Churchy or the Excommuni- 
cate Nonconformist jor not Communicating, when ipfo facto Excommunp- 
cate y be guilty ofSchifme. p. 1 6 $;• 

Chap. 12. Of the Englifn/orf <?/Sponfors, and the Ex dn fan of the Pa- 
rents Duty. p. 167. (fee more in the Pofifcript) 

Chap. 1 3. Of the three French Letters which hefubjoyneth. p. 1 71,'. 

Chap. 14. Epi files and Tefiimonies, Compared with the Doclors. And. 
mtes on Mr. Jo. Glanviles Book, called Tee Zealous Impartial 
Proteftant / With a Letter of his to the Author \ and a Digreffion about: 

Dr. Lewis duMouliflj his Publ'tfnd Picture W Death-bed Repen- 
tance* 

A 



The Contents. 

r APofifvrtpt> of five notices, viz. 

i. Of a new Observation of the Trade of taking mony to be Godfathers to Poor 
mens Children, and miffing B apt if me for want of mony '. 

2. A Letter of Mr. W. Rathbands, of his Fathers judgment and Prac- 
tice* 

'3. An Excellent Confutation of Dr. Stillingfleets Hiftory, of the ex- 
tent of Diocefes, and Choice of Bifliops, fully proving, that the old Bi- 
fhsps were Parochial or Congregational, and always chofen by the People, 
or not made theirs without their free Confent. By a Learned and faith- 
ful Minifter* 

4. An Excellent Vindication of the filenced Minifiers ,by a Conformift, &c. 

5. My Apologie for the Nonformifts Preachings Written by me, and 
Comming out with this. 



ERRATA. 

N the Preface, Se£. 17. line 13. read pleaded for. 1. 17. after Clergie and Pec 
, fie, add #/ each Diocefi. So Evident is the right ofSynids, Clergie and People. 



CO 

A N 

ANSWER 

T O 

Dean S T I L 1 N G F L E ET S, &c. 

C H A P. I. 

The Conccrd of Dr. Stiilengfleet and the Ken conform ifls, efpecial- 
ly with the Principles ef my Book of Church Concord, about 
ike true Nature of Schifm , and who is the Schifmatic/^: mitten 
by him at age in his mo ft owned bocks, and not in youth in his 
lrenicon : I ftand to all my words again fh Schijm which he hath 
cited) and Jo I doubt twt but he Jlands to theje following of his. 

Dlfcourfe of Idolatry of Rome, p. 7. c ^Though we know not what 
allowances God will make for invincible ignorance, we are Cure 
that willful Ignorance or CHOOSING A'WORSE 
CHURCH BEFORE A BETTER IS A DAMNABLE 
SIN and unrepented of deiiroys Salvation. 

Ihe Papifls confent, p. 43. c [I agree fo far with him, that every Chr 
an is bound to choofe the Communion of the purcft Church; but which 
that Church is, mult be iecn by the grounds it brings to prove the Doct- 
rines it teaches to have been delivered by Chrift and his Apoiiles. T 
Church is to be judged purcft that hath the btil grounds, and confccjuently 
it is of neceility to Salvation to embrace the Communion of if. 

Pag. 1^4. i5>5- c j_i. The Churches power is only to Edification and 
not to difiru&ion: tor this was as much as the Apoftles challenged to 
themfelves", and I hope none dare challenge it ore : But this isa prineir 
of Natuial reafen, that no power in a focicty ought to be extenc. 

B 



c beyond the benefit of it, or to contradict the end and deGgneofit. 2. 
c The Apoftles were the molt competent Judges of what made for the Edi- 
c fication of the Church. ] 

Pag. 216. 21 7. c [1. It is agreed on both (k!es that the Scriptures do 
c contcme in th^m the unqueftionable will of that God whom we are 
6 bound toferve, and it being the end of devotion fas it ought to be ofour 
c lives) to ferve him, what is there, the mind of any one who fincerely de- 
' iirestodo it, can be more inquifitive after or fatisfyed in, than the rules 
c God himfdf hath given for his own fervicc Becaufe it is fo cafiy a mat- 
c ter for men to miftake in the waies they choofe to ferve him in : I fee the 

* world divided more fcarce about any thing than this: Pag. 218. Can 
c any man imagine abetter way, ifitconld be hoped for, than that God him - 
c fclf fhould entcrpofe, and declare his own mind , according to what way 
c they ought to ferve him I And this is acknowledged to be done already by 
c all Chriftians in the Scriptures, and after all this muft not all perfons con- 

* cerncd be allowed to enquire into that which is owned to be the will of God, 
c or do they think that ordinary people that undcrftand not Latineand 
'Greek ought not to be concerned what becomes of their Souls? If they 
c be and do in good earned defire to know how to pleafe God and ferve 
c him, what directions will they give him? They mull do as they are bid" 
** den~\AxM<z, fay they, if we were to worfhip you for Gods, we would do 
1 as you bid us : for we think it fitting to ferve God in his own way : But 
c we would know whether that God whom, we ferve, hath given us any 
'Rules for his worlhip or no. How (hall we know whether we keep them 

* or not, or will you take upon yottihe guilt of our fins in difobcying his 
Svill? This feems to be a very juft and reafonable requeft, and I fear it 
c will one day fall heavy on thofe who conceale that which they confefs to be 

* the will of God \ from the knowledge of the people. 

Tag* 54.8. [I agree with him in the way of proof of a Churches purity r 
c viz. by agreement with the doctrine ot Chrift and his Apoftles, and that 
w rhe Church is to be judged pureft, which (hews the greateft Evidence of 
'that confent, and that every one is bound to enquire which Church hath 

* the ftrongeft motives fork, and to embrace the Communion of it. 

Pag. 5 65. '[14. To fuppofe the books fo written to be imperfect, u e. 
i that any thing necelTary to be believed or PRACTISED are not con- 
reined in them, is either to charge the firft Author of them with fraud, 
c and not delivering his whole mind, or the writers with infrncerity in 
c not fating it down, and the whole Chriftian Church of the firft ages 
fc with folly , in believing the fulnefs and perfection of the Scriptures in 
"order to Salvation.. 

tRead 



[ 3 3 
Readthe reft of thofe excellent Rules to rhc end. 
In his excellent, Vindication of Arch Bifcop Lai:d.c//W A Rational account 
of the Proteltants Religion, be bath the fame tcrmes of Communion and the 
fame defcription of Scbifm with mint ,and I kporv not how better to exprejr my 
thoughts s nor plead my Vindication, viz. 

Y>ag- 28^. ' [In his defence of Arch Bifhop Laud (riot yet difbwncdj 
c fince fo great, and conliderable parts of the Chrifiian Churches havcia 
c thefe laii ages been divided inCommunionfrom each other,the great contel: 
'and enquiry hath been which party (lands guilty of the caufeof the prefent 

* diftance and fcparation. For both fides retain ftill fo much of their com- 
'mon Christianity as to acknowledge that no Religion doth foftridtly ob- 
c ligc the owf*€rso1 it to peace and unity as the Cfiriftian Religion doth ; 
'and yet notwithstanding this, we find thefe breaches fo far from clof- 
4 ing, that, fuppofing the fame grounds to continue, a reconciliation fecms 

* to humane reafon impoflible, an Evidence of which' is, that thofe per- 
'fons who either out of a generous defire of feeing the wounds of the 
c Chrifrian world healed, or out of fotne private intereft or defigne, have 

* made it their bufinefs to propound terms o\ reconciliation between the 
'divided parties > have been equally rejected by thofe parties they have 
'profeiTed themfelves the members of. 

Page. 190. c [The diftance then being fo great as it is, it is a very necef- 
c faty enquiry what theCaufe of it is, and where the main fault lies: and it 

* being acknowledged that there is a poflibility that corruptions may 
5 get into a Chriitian Church, and it being impoflible to prove that Chrifti- 
c anity obligeth men to Communicate with a Church in all thofe corrupti- 
ons its communion may be tainted with, it feems evident to reafon that 
c thccaufc of the breach muft lie there, where the corruptions are own* 
c ed, and impofed as conditions of communion. For can any one imagine 
c it (hould be a fault in any to keep off from communion, where they arc 
c fo far from being obliged to it, that they have an obligation to the con- 
trary from the principles of their common Chrifnanity/ And where men 
c are bound not to communicate, it is impoflible to prove their not com- 
c municating to be Schifm. For there cm be no Sehifnv, but where there 
c is an obligation to communion ', Schifm being nothing eKebuta willful 
'"violation of the bonds Chriliian communion. And therefore whenever 
c you would prove the Protefiants guilty of Schifm, you muft do it by prov- 
ing they were bound to communicate with your Church in thofe things 
c which they are Proteftants for difowning of, or that there is (o abfolute 
• and unlimited an obligation to continue inthefociety of your Church, 
' that no conditions can be fo hard, but wcare bound rather to lubmit 

B 2 



[43 

to them, then not joyn in Communion with you. 

1 This being a matter of fo vaft confequence in order to the fetling mens 
minds in the prefent difputes of the Christian world, before I come to 
particulars, I (hall lay down thofe general principles which may mani- 
feft how free Proreftants are from all imputation cf Schifm. Schifm 
then importing a violation of that, communion which we are obliged to 
the mort natural way for undei Handing what Schifm is, is to enquire 
c what the foundations ate of Chriftian communion, and how far the bounds 
. of it do extend. Now the Foundations of Chriftian communion in 
'general depend upon the acknowledgment of the truth of Chriftian Re- 
ligion. For that Religion which Chrift came to deliver to the world 
being fuppofed true, is the reafon why any look on themfelves as ob- 
liged to profefs it > which obligation extending to all perfons who have 
the fame grounds to belcive the truth of it, thence arifeth the ground of 
''fociety in thisprofeffion, which is a common obligation on feveral perfons 
joyning together in fome acts of common concernment to them. The 
truth then of Chriftian Religion being acknowledged by feveral perfons, 
' they find in. this Religion fbme actions which are to be performed by 
"feveral perfons in fociety with each other. From whence arifeth thac 
'more immediate obligation to Chriftian fociety in all thofe. who profefs 
1 themfclv.es Chrillians > and the whole number of thefe who own that 
^truthof Chriftian Religion, and are thereby obliged to jovn in fociety 
c with each other, is that which we call the Catholic^ Church. But al- 
though there be fuch a relation to each other in all Chriftiansas to make 
*"them one common fociety, yet for the performance of particular acts of 
'communion, there mil ft be lefler focieties wherein perfons may joyn- to- 
c gether in the actions belonging to them. But ftill the obligation to com- 
^munion in thefe lciTer is the fame with that which conilitutes the great 
''body of Chriftians, which is the owning Chriftianityas the only true Re- 
'ligionand way to eternal happinefs. And therefore thofe lelTer focieties 
^cannot in juftice make the neccfllity conditions of Communion narrower than 
1 thofe which belong to the Catholic]^ Curcb^ i. e. thofe things which de* 
'dare men Chriftians ought to capacitate them fop communion with 
10 Chriftian?. 

c But here we are to confider that as to be a Chriftian fuppofeth mens 

c owning the Chriftian Religion to be true, fo the conveyance of that Reli- 

c gion being now to us in thofe books we call the Scriptures, there mull be 

5 an acknowledgment of them as the indifpenfablerule of faith and man- 

c ners, which is, that thefe books are the great Charter of the Chriftian 

€ iociety according to which it muft be governed. 

c Thefe 



C5l 

1 Thefe things being premiCcd as the foundation in general of Ch rift ran 
fociety, we ["hall the better under/land how far the obligation to 
munion in it doth extend. For wh ch it mull be conlidered that the 
grounds of continuance in communion mult be fuitable and proportion- 
able to the iirft reafon of cntringintor. No man being obliged by virtue 
of his being in a fociety , to agree in anything that teads to the apparent 
ruinof that fociety : But he is obliged to the contrary, Irom the general 
grounds of his fixit admillion into it. His primary obligition beng to 
preferve the honour and intcreltof 'it, and to joyninadls ot it fo far as 
they tend toit. Now the main end of the ChrilMan fociety, being the 
promotion of Gods honour, and Salvation ot mens Souls, the primary 
obligation of men entring into it, is the advancement of theft ends to 
joyn in all acts of itfo far as they tend to thefe ends > but if any thing 
come to be required dircclly repugnant to thefe ends , thofe men of 
whom (uch things are required , are bound not to communicate in thofe 
lelTer focieties where fuch things are impofed, but to prefeive their com- 
munion with the Catholick focictie of Chriftians. 

Tag. 291. c Setting then afide the Catholick fociety of Chriftiai s, wc 
ccme to enquire how far men are bound to communicate with any Icfs, 
(bciety how extenfive foever it may pretend it's communion to be. 1. 
There is no fociety of Christians of any one communion , but may fm- 
pofe fome things to be beleived or pra&iftd which may be repugnant to 
the general Foundation of Chriftian fociety. 

Tag. 2^2. c 2. There beinga poiTibility acknowledged that partk 
Churches may require unreafonable conditions of communion, the 
ligation to communion cannot be abfolute and indifpv: 
fo far as nothing is required defirudrive to the ends of Christian Soc 
Otherwife men would be bound to deiFroy that which they beleive, and 
to dothe molt unjuftand unreafonable things. But the greater difr ; . 
lies in knowing when fuch things are required, and who muft be 
judge in that cafe, to which I anfvver. 

c 3. Nothing can be more unreafonable than that the fbcic I 
"fuch conditions of communion mould be judge, whether thole conditt- 
ens be jufi and equitable or no. If the quertion were o^.ly in matt, 
peace, convenieney, and order, the judgment of the (bciety ought fo 
over -rule the judgments of particular perfons> but in fuch caL 
great bodies of Chriftians judge fiwh things required to be unlawful 
conditions of communion, what Jufi ice or reaion is there that the ; 
cvjkd mould fit Judge in her own caufe ? 

1 4. Where there is fuflicient evidence from Scripture, reafon and' 

B 5 c tradi i > 1 



16-} 

tradition that fuch things, which are impofed, are unreaionable conditions 
of Chriftian Communion, the not communicating with that Society , 
which requires thefe things cannot incur the guilt of Schifm, which ne- 
cefTarily follows from the precedent grounds, becaufenone can be oblig- 
ed to Communion in fuch cafes, and therefore the not communicating is 
no culpable feparation. 

Pag. 324. c His Lordlhip delivers hisfenfe clearly and fully in thefe 
Words* *Tis too true indeed, that there isa miferable rent in the Churchy 
and I make no queftionbut the bell* men do molt bemoan it j nor is he 
a Chriftian, thit would not have Unity, might he have it with Truth. 
But, Ineverfaidor thought, that the Protectants made this rent. The 
Caufe of the Schifm is yours > for you thruft us from you, becaufe we 
call'd for truth, and rcdrefs of abufes. For a Schifm muft needs be theirs, 
whofe the caufe of it is. The IFoiuns full out of the mouth of Chrift 
ever againft him that gives the offence* not againft him that takes it 
ever. 

Page 325. C I do fay it now* and mod true it is, That it was ill done 
of thole, whoe're they were, who firft made the Separation. But then 
A. C. muft not underhand me of adtual only, but of caufal Separation. 
For ( aslfaid before^ the Schifm is theirs, whofe the caufe of it is: 
and he makes the Separation, that gives the rirft juft caufe of it > not he 
that makes an aclual Separation upon a juft Caufe preceding. And this 
is fo evident a Truth , that A. C. cannot deny \t, for he fays it is moft true. 

lhat the Reader may clearly under/land the fall State of this Controverfie 
concerning Schifm '-, the upjhot of which, is, that it is agreed between bothp'r- 
ties y that all Separation from Communion with a Church doth not involve in it 
the guilt of Schifm^ but only fuch a Separation as hath no fufficient caufe or 
ground for it. 

Page 13 1. c There can be no Separation from the whole Church, but in 
fuch things wherein the unity of the whole Church lies » for Separation 
isa violation of fome Union : Now when men feparate from the errors 
of all particular Churches, they do not feparate from the whole, becaufe 
thofe things, which one feparates from thofe particular Churches for, are 
not fuch, as make all them put together to be the whole or Catholick 
Church. This muft be fomewhat further explained. There are two 
things confiderable in all particular Churches > thofe things which be- 
long to it as a Church > and thofe things which belong to it as a 
particular Church. Thofe things which belong to it as a Church, 
are the common ligaments or grounds of Union between all parti- 
cuter Churches, which taken together maxke up the Catholick Church : 

1 Thofe 



'Thofe things which belong to it as a particular Church, ai: 
l it may retain the elTcnce of a Church without. Now. i 
'ever feparates from any particular Church (much more fxoi 
l ibr fuch things without which that can be no Church, fepara:. 
'the Communion of the Catholick Church : but he that fcpara 
' from particular Churches, as to fuch things which concern nc: 
c isonely fepantid from the Communion of thofe Churches, ar,d nc \ 
'Catholick. And therefore fuppofmg that all perticular Churches 
c fome errors and corruptions in them, though I mould frparare from 
'them all, I do not feparate from the Communion of the whole Chi.; 
'unlefsit be for fomething, without which thofe could be no Cbufd 
'An evidence of which, is, that by my declaring the grounds of my fepa- 
' ration to be fuch Errours and corruptions, which are crept into the Com- 
'munion of fuch Churches, and impofed on me in order to it, I withal 
'declare myreadinefs tojoynwith them again, if thofe errours and cor- 
ruptions be left out. And where there is this readinefs of Communion, 
'there is no abfolute reparation from the Church as fuch, but only fufpen- 
' ding Communion till fuch abufes be reformed: which'is therefore more 
'properly a feparation from the errors, than the Communion of fuch a 
'Church, wherefore if we fuppofe, that there is no one vilible Church, 
c ivhofe Communion is not tainted with fome corruptions though ift! 
c corruptions beinjoyntd as conditions of communion , I cannot commit 
'nicate with any of thofe Churches, yet it followes not that I am fcpara- 
'ted from the external Communion of the Catholick Church, but that I 
'only fufpend Communion with thofe particular Churches, 'till I may fafc- 
*ly joyn with them. As, fuppofe all the particular men 1 can convei 
'with, were infected with Lcprofie, my not affociatng with than, d 
'not imply that lam feparated from the Communion of all Mankind, but 
'that I am loath to be infected as they are, and therefore withdraw my 
'felf, till I can meet with fuch healthtul per fons with whom I may (aft 
^alTociateagain. Andiffeveral other perfons beof the fame mind with 
'me, and we therefore joyn together, do we therefore divide our k 
'from the whole World by only taking care of our own fafety ? And efpc- 
'ciallyif any company of fuch leprous perfons thould refolve that n 
'fhould live among them, but fuch as would cat of thofe meats which 
' brought that difkmper upon them, our withdrawing our (elves and all 
'dating without them will /til I appear more reafonable and commenda- 
*ble. Therefore we fay, we do not neccilarily feparate from aiJ Chi 
'chesthat have errors or corruptions in them, fu ppofing thofe errors and 
'corruptions be not impofed on us, ditions of communion > and 



m 

x r hence though we mould grant , no one vifible Church free from faint 
c or corruption, yet it is not needfary we fhould feparate from them all: 
'for we may lawfully joy ne in communion with Churches having error 
c and corruptions, if cur joyning be not an approbation of them. Thus 
c though the C 'reekj , Armenians, Albigenfzr^ Abyffins may have fbme errors , 
c or corruptions, yet if they be not fundamental, and be not joyned as ne- 
'ceilary to be approved in order to their communion , notwithstanding 
c fhem, we may lawfully communicate with them, it doth not then at 
c all follow, that if there may be no one vifible Church free from error 
c and corruption, it would benecelTary to feparate from the communion of 
c the Catholick Church: Becaufe, i. All thofe particular Churches may 
4 not make thefe errors conditions'of communion. 2. Though they did 
c we feparate not from them as Catholick, but as corrupt and erroneous 
4 particular Churches 

Pag. 355. 4 To redli fie fuch grofsmifukes as thefe are for the future 
c you would do well to underhand that Schifm formally taken alwaiesim- 
' ports fomething criminal in ir, and there can be no jufl caufe for a fin > 
c But befides that there is that f which if you under/land it J you would 
'call the materiality of it, which is the reparation of one part of the 
c Church from another. Now this according to the different grounds 
''and reafonsof it, becomes lawful or unlawfull,. that is, as the reaionsdo 
"make it neccflaryor unnecclTary, for fe pa rat ion is not lawfull but when 
c it is ncceffary i Now this being capable of fuch a different nature that it 
c may be gcod or evil according to its circumfhnces, there can be no abfolute 
'judgment paflcd upon it , till all thofe reafons and circurnfhnces be 
c due!y examined, and if there be no fufficient grounds, for it then it is for- 
'mally Schifm /. e. a culpable feparation •, If there be fufficient caufe 
'then there may be a feparation, but it can be no Schifm. And bccaule 
'the union of the Catholick Church lies in fundamental and neceiTary 
c truths, there fore there can be no feparation abfolutcly from the Catholick 
c Church, but what involves in it the formal guilt of Schifm ••> it being im« 
c poffibleany perfon mould have juli caufe to difown the Churches corn- 
"munionfor any thing whofe beleif is neccflary to Salvation. And who- 
' foever doth fo, thereby makes himfelf no member of the Church, becaufe 
c the Church fubii/ts on the beleif of fundamental truths. But in all fuch 
c cafes wherein a divifion may be made, and yet the flveral perfons divid- 
ed retain the elTentialsofa Christian Church, the feparation which may 
c be among any fuch mult be determined according to the caufes of ir. 
c For it being poiTible of one fide that men out of capricious humours and 
fancies renounce the communion of a Church which requires nothing 

<bu* 



[9] 

But what isjuftand rcafonable: And it being pcflibleon theotrK 
'that,a Church, calling her felf Catholick, may fo far degenerate in 1 
c and Practice, as not only to be guilty of great Errors and corrupt!. 
c but to impofe them as conditions of Communion with her, it is ncccf- 
c iary, where there is a manifeft feparation, to 'inquire into the rea: * 
' and grounds of it i and to determine the nature of it according to * 
c Jufticeofthecaufe, which is pleaded for it. 

Page 357. ' The Catholick Church therefore lies open and free, like a 
c Common field to all inhabitants. Now if any particular number of 
c thefe Inhabitants (hould agree together to enclofe pare of it without con^ 
c fent of the reh\and not to admit any others to that right of Comrrx n,with- 
'outconfentingto it, which of thefe two parties, thofe who deny toycild 
1 their confent \ or fuch, who deny their rights, if they will not , are 
' guilty of the violation of the publick and common rights of the place ? 

Page 358. 'Although nothing feparates a Church properly from the 
'Catholick, but what is contrary to the being of it j yet a Church may 
'feparate her felf from the Communion of the Catholick by taking upon 
c her to make fuch things the necelTary conditions of her Communion, 
c which never were the conditions of Communion with the Catholick 
c Church. 

Page 35p. * Since it appears that the Communion of the Catholick 
c Church was free for many hundred years without approving or uiing 
' the& things h that Church, which (hall not only publ.'ckly ufe,but enjoy n 
'fuch things upon pain of Excommunication from the Church, doth as 
'much as in her lies draw the bounds of Catholick Communion within 
'herielf^ and fo divides her felf from the true Catholick Church. For 
' whatever confines muftlikewife divide the Church, for by that con finc- 
' ment a feparation is made between the part confined and the other, 
' which feparation muft be made by tie Party fo limiting Communion. 
c As it was in the Cafe of the Donatifis, who were therefore charged with 
' Schifmc, becaufethey confined the Catholick Church, within theirown 
' bounds : And if any other Church doth the fame which they did, it muir 
' be liable to the fame charge that they were. The fum of this difcourfc 
'is, that the being of the Catholick Church lies in ElTentials, that for a 
'particular Church to difagrce from all other particular Churches in fbmc 
' extrinikal and accidental things is not to feparate from the Catholick 
* Church, fo as to ceafe to be a Church: Cut (till whatever Church makes 
'fuch extrinfical things thenecclTary conditions of Communion, fo as to 
'calf men out of the Churchy who ycild not to them, isSchifmatical in fo 
'doing*, Fork thereby divides it felf from the Catholick Church : And 

C Ubz 



[>3 

* the reparation from it is fo far from being Schifm, that being caft <Jut 
'of that Church on thofe terms only, returns them to the Communion of 
' the Catholick Church. On which grounds it will appear that yours 
1 is the Schifmatical Church and not ours: For although before this im- 
5 poling humor came into particular Churches, Schifm was defined by the 
'Fathers and others to be a voluntary departure out of the Church, yet 
1 that cannot in reafon be underftood of any particular, but the true Ca- 

* tholick Church For not only perfons but Churches may depart from 
' the Catholick Church : And in fuch Cafes not thofe, who depart from 
c the Communion of fuch Churches, but thofe Churches, which departed 
c from the Catholick are guilty of Schifm. Thefc things I thought neccf- 
' fary to be further explained, not only to (hew how falfe that imputati- 
' on is, of our Churches departing from the true Catholick Church > but 
' with what great reafon we charge your Clmrch with departing from the 
' communion of it j and therefore not thofe whom you thrtift out of Com- 
' munion* but your Church fo thrufting them out, is apparently guilty of 
c the prefent Schifm. 

Page 366. 'The truth is fuch pretences as thefeare, are fit only for a 
c Church that hateth to be reformed > for if fomething not good in it 
c felf mould happen in anyone Age tooverfpread the vifible Communion 
c of all particular Churches, this only makes a Reformation more necefla- 
c ry, fo far is it from making it more difputable. For thereby thofe cor - 

* ruptions grow more dangerous, and every particular' Church is bound 

* the more to regard its own fecurity in a time of general infection. And 

* if any other Churches neglecl: themfelves , what reafon is it that the 
'reft mould ? For any or{ all other partciular Churches neglecting their 
'duty, is no more an Argument, that no particular Church mould re- 

* tbrm it fclf, than that if all other men in a Town neglect preferving 
c themfelves from the Plague, then I am bound to neglecl: it too. 

Bage 540. c Every Church is bound to regard her own purity and 
c peace , and in cafe of Corruptions to proceed to a Reformation of 
- them. 

Page 541. Saint Angufthie faith not only in that place, but in very 
many others, that Saint Peter did fuftain the Perfon of the Church, 
1 when Chrift laid to him, I will give thee the Keyes of the Kingdom of 
c Heaven. 

1 That he did univerj am fignificareEcclefiam ,fignifie the whole Church ; and 
' that thofe things which are fpokenof Peter, mm babent illuftrem intellettum 

* nifi cum referuntur ad Ecchfiam^CHJHf Me agnofcitut in figura gefiajfi perfonam, 
4 hive no clear fenfe, but when they are referred to the Church, whole per* 
c Ion he did bear. Page 



C»3 

Tag. 542 c He means the formal right of ttem was conveyed to the 
c Church, and that Saint Petet was only a publick perfon to receive them 

* in the name of the Church. 

' It primarily and formally refides in the whole body of the Church; 

' ? a g» 544« His Lordfhip faith your opinion is yet more unreafbnable fc 
c becaufe no body collective, whenfoevrr it afiembled it felf, did ever give 
'more powertothereprefenting body of it^than a binding power upon it felf 
6 and all particularsjnor ever did it give this power otherwife than with this 
'rcfervation in nature, that it would call again and reform, and if need 
c were,abrogate any law, or ordinance upon juftcaufe made evident, that 

* the reprcfenting body had failed in truft, or truth. And this power 
c no body collective, Ecclefiaftical or Civil can put out of it felf, or give 

* away to a Parliament or Council , or call it what you will, that re* 
c prefents it. 

'His Lordubip faith that the power which a Council hath to order 
c fettle and define differences arming concerning faith, it hath not by an im- 
c mediate inftitution from Chrift,but it was prudently taken up by the 
c Church from the Apoftles example. 



CHAP. II. 

Some Animadversions on his Preface. 

^ 1, *«r*HE impartial fearchers after truth, have hitherto thought that 
JL a ftrid method (at leaft agreeable to natural Logick ) is more 
effectual than confufion or wordy popular haranges : And that the con- 
troverfie (hould be very cleerly Rated before it can be profitably argued : 
And therefore that rirltall ambiguity of terms be by due explication re- 
moved, that men may not mean feveral things and not underftand each 
other > and to Define and dijliriguijh where it is needful, and then Affirm 
or deny, and then effectual) prove. But why this worthy perfon doth far 
otherwife with us, both before and now, it is more his partthan mine to 
give the reafon : I dare net fay he cannot •, Not I dare not fay 5 hecan, but 
will not , but all that I ctn fay is that be doth ret , and I know not 

why. 

$2. The Preface of his Book called Vnreafonablenefs^ <kc. Is fo much 
anfwered already by Mr. Lcb y that I will not lofetime by doing much 
to the fame again : And there is a pofthumous book of Dr. Woyfleys cal- 

C 2 UA, 



led, The third part of natyd Truth, which hath flrenuou fly handled the 
fame chief matter forScriprure Sufficiency againftunneceiftry Impofitions. 
It b^ing fuppofed, though not there expreffcd. I, That he fpcaketh not 
again!) the guiding determination of undetermined accidents which muft 
be determined one way or other : As Time, Place, Utenfils, Tranflation- 
words, Met res, tunes, &c, 2. And that a man that intcllerably breakes Gods 
Laws f by Blafphemy , Treafon , Murder, Fornication, &t.) is not to 
be tolleratedbecaufe he erronioufly thinks hekeepeth them. 

§ 3. His fad faying [that these is no improbability that the Jefuites Jhould 
be the firfi fetters up of the way in England which he calls the Do&rinc 
[ of Spiritual Vrayer J Mr. Lob hath opened, as it deferveth, in parti 
but to fay all that it deferveth would feem fo harm, that I have 
reafon to think that it would but more offend than profit him. 

§4. For I find that he is grown too impatient with our Nameing what 
he patiently and confidently doth: The caufe of his impatience I leave 
to himfelf. But that it is much within him I mult conjecture, when ia 
his defence of Bifhop Laud I read him faying to the Papifts [_To fpeak^ 
mildly , it is a grofs untruth.'] And yet wenlfpeak not fo plainly to him 
f and I think never more (harplyj he accounts it a continue! Tajfion, Rage^ 
Raiting, Intolerable indifcretion, &c. Do I give .him harder words than 
thefe ? Yet I profefslfmartnot by them: I take them for very tollerable 
words, in comparifon6f his mifcarriges in the caufe in hand. 

SeveraMbrtsof men I have found think other men fpeak in paflion ; 
7. Thofe that hear and read with pailion; They think that which angers 
them came from anger* 2. Thofe that are too high to be dealt with on 
even terms, and think the plain fpeech which agreeth to others is a con- 
tempt of fuch as them. 3. Thofe that commit mifearriages fo grofs and 
defend caufes fo bad, as have no names but what are diigraceful, and 
then take all that is faid to anatomatize their caufe and errours,to be laid a- 
gainit them felves. With thefe and fuch others, 'truth, is not tollerable 
he raileth that confuteth them, and doth Auriculas moths mordaci radere 
vero^ I profefs I felt fo little pailion in writing that book which he faith 
was written in one continued Pajfion, that I think verily, I finned all the 
while, for want of a livelier fenfeof the fin and hurt which I was detect- 
ing by my confutation. Butlconfefs it is my opinion that Fal/hood of 
Speech way lie in describing a thing Jhort of Truth , as well as in going be- 
yond it: And that the Truth of words is their Agreeablenefs to the matter 
(and mind): And that verba rebus aptanda funt : And that he that writ- 
ethagainftjw muft call it fin, and open the evil of it. 

§ 5. His Prefa.ce giveth us hopes that we are fofarr. agreed in our ends 

as 



L'3l 

asfobe both for God, for truth, for unity and peace and Love', and i- 
gainft Popery, and one would think this much fhould go far toward;; • r 
Concord. Eut, alas, allagieenot what Tiety is, or what Popery is. 
ot the way to our ends. 

If he think that to be againft Spiritual Prayer would help us again; . 
pery, I. I would he would tell us, which way. If by reducing the N 
conformists to think Formes lawful \ fo do the Jjfuites: And he told as 
that they at Franchjord took a Forme from Geneva as ufeful : And the 
prefent Nonconforming put their judgment out of queftion an. id<5o, 
and i66l. In their wirings, offers and Formes Printed. But all that 
are for Formes are not for all things in your Formes, 

2. And I would he would have better told us what the Spirct^ul Prayer 
/"/, which the Jefuits firft brought in and helpes in Popery, itar hither- 
to it is the Dead Ceremonious formality and Imagery of Popery, tjlefrroying 
Spirituality > (by words not under flood, Mummeries, Beads, Canting 
Stage workes) which hatha'ienat.d mod Religious Protectants tiom them. 
I will. i. Tell you what I tike Spiritual Pr^er to be j and then. 2. Defire 
his judgment of it. 

1. It ismy judgment ( ifheknow it to be erroneous, I crave his rea- 
fons J 1. That Maris Soul is by (info depraved that it is morally unable 
without Gods Spirit, effectually to know, feel and defire deliverance from 
his own fin and mifery, and to defire Gods Grace and Glory, above all 
worldly finful pleafures. 

2. That therefore fuchdetires in adt and habit muft be wrought in us by 
the Spirit of God. And the whole work of Regeneration and Sandi- 
rication is a giving to the Soul that new Divine nature, Love and de- 
light, which worketh by fuch holy deiircs. And that as the carnal mind 
is enmity to God, and cannnot be fubjedt to his Law, and if any man 
have not the Spirit ofChrifr, the fame is none of his i fo to be Spiritu- 
ally minded is life and peace, and God who is a Spirit will be worihip- 
ed in Spirit and truth, and by this we know that we an: the Chil- 
dren of God by the Spirit which he hath giren us ; For he promifed to 
pour out the Spirit of Grace and fupplication : And becaule \vc are fons , 
he hath given us the Spirit of his Son, by which we cry Abba Father: 
And this Spirit helpethoar Infirmities in Prayer : If thefe things be in 
the Papifts Bible, I hope they are no: therefore Popery. I fuppofe : 
piitsalfoown our God, our Saviour and our Creed. 

3. The help in Prayer which we expect from the Spirit, is. 1. To 
illuminate us to know what we need and (hould defire and ask. 2. To 
kindle in us holy deiires fincere and fervent, of what we fhould a< 

C 3 Tu 



5. To give us a true belief of andtruft in the Love of God, the entered 1 
iion of Chriftand thepiomifesof the Gofpel, that we may pray in hope. 
4. To give us thankful hearts for what we do receive, and fit with joy 
to praife the giver. 5. To ftir up all thefe difpofitions to particular ads 
in the due feafon : And to fave us from the contrary. <5. And we believe 
that a mind fo illuminated , and affections fo fan&ified and kindled, 
kavea great advantage above others cxteris paribus toexprefs themfelves 
in words ; For. 1. A man that knowetb what to fay can fpeak it when the 
ignorant cannot? Doth notaftock of knowledge enable you to Preach 
without book ? 2. Such a Soul will fet it felf diligently to think what 
and how to fpeak in fo great a buiinefs, when the carelefs mind it not. 3. 
Love and delight are very fpeedy Learners. 4. Fervent defire fets all the 
powers of the Soul awork, and is full and forward to exprefs it fdf. 
Hunger can teach men eafily to beg : Poor men fpeak intreaties \ Anger, 
joy , every paffion maketh and powreth out words , where there is 
prercquifite ability. 

4. We believe that he who by natural defeclivenefs or difufe cannot 
find words fitly to utter his own mind, may have the help of Gods Spi- 
rit in uttering fuch words as he readeth or learneth of others , and 
fefpecially in the cafe of Pfalms which arc not of fudden invention J \i 
for Concord the Churches agree to ufe the fame meet words, Gods Spi- 
rit may actuate their deliresthererin. 

5. We hold that this Holy Spirit, is asTertullian fpeakcth,Chrilts Vicar, 
Agent or Advocate* by preventing, operateing, Cooperating grace, thus 
to illuminate, Sandtirie and actuate believers, in all holy works, and c- 
fpecially in prayer. And I could heartily wifh that you would not 
be againft fo much, as Spiritual Preachings Spiritual Writing and difput- 
ing^ and livings and not fay that the Jefuits brought them in. 

6. I believe that we are Baptized into the name of the Holy Ghoft as 
well as of the Father and the Son, believing that he is thus Chrifts Agent 
tor all this work upon out Souls, and covenanting to obey him. 

7. I believe that iins againft the Holy Ghoft, efpecially deriding or re* 
proaching his great works, miraculous or Sandtiring, have a dangerous 
malignity. 

8. Ifuppofethatinall this, the faculties of mans own Soul are the 
natural recipients of the Spirits influx , and agent of the adt which both 
caufes eftedt : And that its as vain a queftion, whether it be by the Spirit or 
by natural faculties that we pray aright, as whether it be God as fens na- 
tur£, or mans natural powers which caufe our natural adls/ Or whether 
the Ait of feeing be from the fun or the eye > As if the fame effect 

might 



C'5 3 

might not, yea muft not have a Suprior and Inferior Caufe > 

p. Therefore as Gods Spirit witnefling with ours that w: arc h 
drcn, fo Gods Spirit helping our infirmities in Prayer, fufpendc 
the exercifeof oar Spirits, ovmaketh our reafon and confideration n. ch- 
iefs, but actuateth them in their duty. Learning and r 
pray, is confident with the Spirits help in Prayer. 

ic I never talkt ot it with any No neon for mi Irs who denyed that an 
hypocrite may without any facial help of the Spirit, (peak all the {ame 
words in prayer without either book or fo,m, wich another may (peak: 
The help of know ledge, hearing, ufe and pailion may help him to words : 
Therefore they never take a man to be proved godly or finceer, by his 
bare words : but by the grace of Prayer, which is holy deftre &c. and 
not by the fpeaking, gift, or habit. 

1 1. But we think that it was not thejtfuits that fir ft fold jut of the aboun- 
dance eftloe heart the mouth fpeakgtb -, and though the tongue may lie, it 
is made to exprefsthe mind, and we muft judge of other mens minds by 
their words, tillfomwhat elfe difpiove them. And its natural for the 
Heart to lead the Tongue. And men are more arre&ed by words which 
come from affection than by thofe that do not : and Reading wopds 
written by another when we fpeak to God, is not fo natural a fignirica- 
tion of^cfrrc or other atfeCTion, as fpeaking them from the pre Cent die":; 
of the heart \ For any Child that can read may do the one, and it is r 
the ufual (igni heat ion of ferioufnefs in other adions. A beggar that 
lhould only read his begging leflbn, or a Child or Servant that (hould 
only read fome words to his Father or Mafter, would be thou| 
fcnfible of his wants. 

12. Minifiers (hould be men better aquainted than theptt 

fpeal^to God and man: It is their office*) and therefore it belongeth to 
them to choofe the words which are fitted : and to fee op 
can do neither, is to befriend the Prince of darknefsagainft t 1 
of Light, and to be a deadly enemy toi rch and Souk. 

fet upaminiftry that need not do it, but may choofe, oris not obliged u 
it, is th? way to fet up a miniftry that cannot ds it. Let the Miniitcrsbe 
bound to no more than to Read, and a few years will transform them to 
(bch as can do no more than read. M .. proveth that, and too ma 
other Countries. 

13. If it be praying freely from prefent knowledge and defire, with- 
out a book or fet form which you call 5j c r, eirhci 

the ufe ot it in the Pulpit or not. If you are, did the Jci 

you ? or will you go on to follow then: ? If n r arty 



[16] 

ate the Conformifrs, while fomany ufe it and pray fpiritually ? And what 
a Cafe is the Church of England in, that hath ftill fo many Minifters that 
pray as the Jefuits Difciples ? Or why do you fo reproach your Church 
and Miniftry ? 

'14. Do you think that there is more force in the name of a Jefuit to 
difgrace Spiritual prayer, or in the name of Spiritual prayer to honour the 
Jefuits } And do you not feem to prevaricate and highly honour the Je- 
fuits, on pretence of dishonoring Spiritual prayer? If you had faid that 
the Jefuits firft brought in Spiritual preaching, and difcourfe and Spiritu- 
al living, would it not have more honoured them, than dishonoured Spi- 
rituality? Will freedom from Spiritual -prayer honour your Church ? as 
Seneca thought Cato\ name would do more to honour Drunkenncfs, than 
Drunkennefs could do to dimonour Cato ? 

lam not fuch an Antipapift, as to fall out with Father Son or 
Holy-Ghoft, becaufe the Jefuits own them. You do but help to con- 
firm my charity, wno have long thought that among the Papi/ls, there 
are many perfons truly godly, though their education, converfe, and 
proud, tyrannical wordly Clergy, have fadly vitiated them. 

15. All prayers written or unwritten are made byfomebody. Thole 
that the^B.fhops writedown for us in the Liturgy, and for our Fails, were 
made by their invention : Either they had the help of the Spirit in mak- 
ing them or not : If yea, then why is it not as Jefuitical to write a Spirit 
tual prayer, as to fpeak one ? If not, excufe them that fay Gods Spirit 
made not your Liturgy, nor are they Spiritual prayers. 

\6. And were it not too like high and dangerous Pride, if fuch a one 
as Bifhop Bancroft, Biihop Laud, £i(hop Morley, Biihop Gunning, in a 
Convocation, or before every publick Fair, fhould be appointed to write 
the words of Prayer, and (hould in effed fay to all the moft Learned Di- 
vines in England [ The Spirit caufed us to write thefe prayers, and our 
mtafure is fo fure ^nd great, that none of you miy pre fume to qucfiion it, nor 
to thin\that you can pray Spiritually in any words of your own, hut only in 
ours, at leaji in the Affemby. The Spirit will help you if you fay our words, 
but not your own. It now cometh into my mind what may be foine of 
the meaning of Biihop Gunnings Chaplain, Doclor Saywell, in his lait 
Book, that none hath power to ordain Bifhops, hut they that have power to 
give the Holy Ghpfi fir the roor\ of their Office. It may be it is, -The Holy 
Ghott to write Doclrine Sermons and Prayers for all their Clergy to ufe. 
But do you not fay alfo to the Presbyters Kec c he the Holy Gboft ? Ifthey have 
him, why cannot they fpeak their own hearts in other words than yours ? 
js Spiritual prayer appropriated to your Liturgy, words or forms, any more 

than 



[17] 
than at the Councfrat Trent he was to the Popes inftrudions. 

17. We all confefs, that as all the adions of imperfed men, have 
their imperfections, fo have all our prayers, and thefe arecaiily aggra- 
vated : Sudden free prayer, and book prayer, have both their conveni- 
encies and inconveniencies: The queltion is which bic & nunc hath the great- 
eft, and whether forbidding either be not worft of all: I have named 
the conveniencies and inconveniencies of each in my Chriitian Dire- 
dory. 

18. Experience telleth the world , that the daily faying over only 
the fame words, and that read out of a paper impofed by others, by one 
that no further fheweth any fenfe of what he doth, is rot fo apt as 
more free and well varied words in feafon, to keep people from fleepy 
fenftlefs prophanation , and praying as the Papifts do with their Maf- 
fes, Rofaries, and Beads : And the variety of Subjects preached on, and 
variety of occafions , and all accidents require fome diverfirication of 
words and methods. 

19. It is a work of reverence to (peak to the King > yet as it is law- 
ful to write a Petition to him , fo to fpeak to him without Book- 
Judges have ieiious work to do, for eftate and life, and yet they are 
trufted to fpeak without prefcribed words*, and ioare Advocates, Law- 
yers, Ambaltadors, Phyficians, Philofophers, and all men in their Profcf- 
fions, except Minifters and Chriftians, as fuch. 

20. We know not why men may not be intruded to fpeak to God in 
the name of imperfed man without impofed books and words, as well 
as to fpeak to man from the mod perfed God and in his name i in 
preaching. Mans adions will be like man . Nothing that is not divine 
and fpiritual mould be fpoken as from God and in his name. And as 
after our fruftrated Treaty for Concord 1661. one of them fnamelefsj 
wrote a Book againfi free praying without an impofed form in the Pulpit, 
and yet they never durft forbid it to this day i fo I know who (hewed 
his defireof a new Book of Homilies (of his own making its like ) to 
have been impofed inftead of preaching, and of the old ones, on thofe 
that had not fpecial licenfeto preach. But intercft ruleth the world: 
They durft not fo far difgrace their Clergy, as to make them meer Rea* 
ders, nor lofcthe advantage of talking out of the Pulpit for their Caufe, 
where none muft contradid them. 

Mr. Lob hath ask'd you already, whether our Spiritual Fraycr, as you 
call it, or your Liturgy ( and Bifhop Cnw(//?x,and Dr Taylors Prayer-books, 
&c.) beliker to the PopifhMafs book, and many other Offices and De- 
votions? Indeed Mr. dujiinshzth fo muchgiavity, as execptinghisex- 

D a n ' . 



[18] 

etirfions to Saints, &c. it may- compare with many of yours. 

And for that fort of fpiritual Devotion , in which they flie too high, 
I have found more of it in the Friers, Francikans, Benedidlines, &c. fuch 
as Birbanjon, Benedittus de Benedict is, &c. than in the Jcfuits : And the 
Otatonanr^PbiLNeriusfiaronius, and the red - , and of their fober orReligious 
men, as Sales, Mr. Renti,& j c. and of old t JobnGerfon , Kempis, &c. have 
more of fpirituality than the Jefuits. But enough of thiF. 

§ 6. As to the reft of his Prefatory difcourle of the Advantages of 
Popery, i. We doubt not but the Papifls play their game among all 
Parties, as far as they are able, and put on divers forts of Vizors. But 
doth he ("that is a HiflorianJ not know, that all over the world their 
cheif dclign is upon the Rulers and Leaders, and they Cry, Fight neither 
againft gnat or [mall, but to win one Court Card iignirieth more than ma- 
ny others ? 

2. Doth he think the Papifts take the .Conforming or the Nonconfor- 
miits to be nearer to them, and kfs againfl them ? 

3. Did the Papifts think Bilhop Lauds reconciling defign deicribed by 
Doctor Heylin, ("entertained by Santla Clara , Leander , &c. ) or the 
Parliaments fears of his introducing Popery in thole times, to be more a- 
gainftthem.? 

4. Are they liker to help in Popery, that are foapt to be over-averfe 
to any thing that favours of it, in Doclrine, Difcipline, and Worfhip , 
and account the Pope Antichrift > Or they that hold as followeth. 1. (As 
Grothis) Thar a Pafiji is hut one that flatters the Popes, as if all were juftthat 
they Jay and do ( and fo there are few Papilts I hope in the World.) 
2. That the Church of Rome is found in Faith. 3. And io are. all the Gene- 
ral Councils y even Trent, 4. That Rome is the Miftrefs of all Churches ; or as 
Bimop Bromhal, that for Concord we mud all obey the Pope, as Patriarch of 
the Weft, and ^rincipium llnitatis Catholics , ruling according to the old 
Canons, ( a Foreign JurifdiclionJ and all thofe pafs for Schifmaticks, that 
refufe it (of which more after. J 5. That the validity of our Miniftry 
muft be proved by the derivation of it from the uninterrupted fuccellion 
of the Roman Ordainers and Church. 6. That the Church of Rome by 
thatfixccilion is a true, though faulty Church of Chrift, but fo are none 
of the Reformed Churches which have not Bifhops, or have them not by 
fuch uninterrupted fuccellion. 7. That the only way of the Concord of 
Churches and all Chrijiians is ( faith Bifhop Gunning) to obey the governing 
part of the Church Vniverfal, is which Collegium Paftorum, all the Bijhops of 
the univtrfal Church, in one Regent Colledge, governing all the Chriftian World 
pzrlheras fortmtas. 8. That its fafer and better for the Proteftants in 

France 



Ci9] 

Trance to be of the Trench Church of Papifts than to continue withoti 
Bilhops as they are. 9.That we fhould come as near the Papifis as thcGreek 
Church doth, or as both Greek and Latin did at the rupture of the two 
Churches, or as in Greg. id. daies fay others, or as in Char. Mag* daies, 
lay others i receiving fay fome the rirft fix General Councils, fay others 
thehrft 8. 10. That we muft amend the Oath of Supremacy for the 
Papifts, as Thomdick^ faith , and fo«many Doctrines as he intimateth- 
ii. That its defireable that the Papifts bad continued in our Churches 
as in the begining of Queen Eliz. And if they come fas Church Papifts 
do) mould be received in our Communion. 12. That if the Pope have 
not fas fome hold) aright of fuch Primacy as belongs to Saint Peters 
fuccefTour, atleaft, His Primacy is a very prudent humane conftkution. 
1. That there may be a Common Father to care for all the Church. 2. 
And one to be a Head of Unity and order. 3. And one to call General 
Councils. 4. And one to rule between when there are no fuch Councils 
(which are rare). 5. And one to give power to Patriarchs and Arch~ 
Bifhops who elfe will have none over them to authorize, or Govern them. 
6. And one to decide controverlles, when Countries, Churches and Arch- 
Biftiops difagree. 7. And one to fend out Preachers among Heathens , 
Infidels and Hereticks, all over the world. 8. And one boldly to reprove, 
admonifhand, if need be, excommunicate Kings, which their own fub- 
jedfo dare not do. 

I do not mean that all thefe things or any of them are the Do&rine of 
the Church oiEngland^ or held by all or moft that conforme. But if fome 
of it have been publifhed by the Chief Prelates, and fome by their chief 
defenders, and fome in conference with us by Clergy men, I only ask 
whether all this pleafe not and advantage not the Papifts , more than 
Nonconforming any way do? And whether Arch Bifhop Vfktr and his 
SuccefTor Arch-Bifhop Bromhal^ Bifhop Downam and his Succeflbur Bifhop 
Taylor differed not as much as you and I do ? And whether the multitude of 
Parifli Prieft that were Papifts in Queen Elizabeths daies , and Eiftiop 
Godfrey Goodman a Papifts Bifhop of Gloncefter, with all the reft mention- 
ed by Prin, Rujhrvorthj Burnet , &c. tell us not that the Papifts had a hope- 
ful game to play among the Bifhops and Clergy of the Church ? 

§7. As to his note out of Mr. Jo* Humpherics book, difclaiming Cru- 
elty to Papifts, its known Mr. Humphery is a man of latitude and univcrfal 
Charity, and tyeth himfelf to no party or any mens opinions : He openly 
profeiTeth his hope of the Salvation of many Heathens, and I fo little fear 
the noife of the cenforious, that even now while the Plot doth render them 
moft odious, I freely fay. 1. That I would have Papifts ufed like men, and 

D 2 ro 



/>3 

no worfe than our own defence requireth : 2, That I would have no man 
pat to death for beingaPrieft : 3. That I would haveno writ de excom- 
municato capiendo, or any Law compel them to our Communion and Sa- 
craments. For I would cot give it them ( if I knew them J if they 
came. 

§8. As to his Accufationofmy hxii Flea for Fe ace, he hath it after, ard 
it is alter anfwered. And asto his^Accufation of my book for Concord, 1 
anfwer. i. Is it no Miniiterswork, in a contending world , to tdl and 
prove what are Chriits ordained termes of Chriftian Concord , but his 
that ; s [_Chrifis plenipotentiary on Earth, and were to fet the termes of Peace and 
War] Is this fpoken like a peace maker and a Divine ? Doth not he pre- 
tend alfo in his way to declare the terms of Concord ? 

2. Eut no rmn more heartily agreeth with him in lamenting the 
Hate of the Church on earth, that when fuch men as Bifhop Gunning, 
Dean Stillingfleet , Dr. Sayrvel, &c. on one fide, and fuch as I and many 
better men on the other fide, have fo many years ftudied hard to know 
Gods will, I am certain for my felf, and I hope it of them, with an un^ 
feigned defire to find out the truth what ever it coft, fand I profefs as 
going to God, that would he but make me know that Popery, illencing 
Prelacy, imprifoning, Banifhing , or ruining all Nonconformists, Ana- 
baptitfs, Antinomians, Quakers, or any that ever I wrote againft, are 
in the right , I would with greater joy and thankfulnefs recant and 
turne to them, than I would receive the greatefr preferment in the land) 
I fay, that yet after all this we (hquld fo far differ, as for one fide to be 
confident that the others way of Concord is the ready way to ruin 
wickednefs and confufion, and to come to that boldnelsto proclaim this 
to the world, alas how doleful a cafe is this ? 

What hope of Chrillian peace and concord when fuch excellent fober 
well itudyed men as they, quite above the common fort, not byaiTed hy 
honour, or preferments or power, by Bifhopricks, Deaneries, Maftcrftiips, 
plurality, or love of any worldly wealth, and fuch as we thatftudy and 
pray as hard as they to know the truth, are yet confident to the height 
that each "others termes of Love and peace, axe but Sathans way to 
to defiroy them both, and introduce (as Dr. Sayrvel faith Conventicles 
do) Hcrefie, Popery, Ignorance, Prophanenefs and Confufion: And 
what we arepaft doubt that their way will do, experience faith more than 
we may do. 

Oh what (hall the poor people do info great a temptation ! 

§p. But I muft pafs from his preface , where I have noted, 1. That 
he is yet Co peaceable as to propofe fbme fort of abatements for our Coa- 

cord x 



[21} 

cord > that the benifit maybe fibi & fuis, not reaching our necefliri 
hi.it much better than nothing. 

2. That they arc (o ill agreed, that Bifhop Gw?/;z/2gx Chaplain wr 
againftit, making the only way of Peace to be by the fvvord to torce all 
men to full obedience to their Lordfhips in every thing injoyned, nor i- 
batingan Oath, a Subfcription, a Covenant, a Word, a Ceremony, with- 
out Comprehenfion or limited Toleration. 

3 And I could vvifh the Doctor would confent, atleaftthat Lords an4 
Pailiamentmen may have the liberty themfclves of educating their own 
Sons, To it be in the Chriitian Reformed Religion, and to choofe their 
Tutors, and not confine them to Conformifts only : The Papiftsare tol- 
lerated in choofing Tutors for their Children : The King of France hath 
not yet taken away this liberty from the Proteftants : Nor the Turks 
from the Greeks: And muftyou needs take it away from all rhe Lords , 
Knights, Gentlemen , Citizens , and Free-holders of England. Perhaps 
Beggars will confent, ifvouwill keep their Children, or do what the 
Godfathers vow. Moft Gentlemen, that keep Chaplains , expect that 
they teach their Sons at home, fometime at lea ft i what if a Lord or 
Knight havefuch a Chaplain as Hngh Brougbton, or Ainfnrortb, oxzsAtn:- 
JihSj Blondel, Salmatius, as Gatahgr, Vines, Surges, &c. muft the Law for- 
bid them to read Hebrew, Philofophy, or Divinity to their Sons ? I doubt 
you will fcarce get the Parliament hereafter to make fucha Law to fetter 
themfelves, left next you would extend \our dominion alfo to their 
Wives as well as Sons , and forbid, them marrying any but Confor- 
mifts. 

Is it not enough to turn us all out of the publick Miniftry i Methinks 
you might allow fome the Office of a School-matter, orHoufhold Tutor. 
or Chaplain under the Laws of Peace •> unlefsthe Sword be all that you 
tiufttoo: If it be, it is an uncertain thing: The minds of Princes are 
changable, and all things in this World are on the Wheel ; when Peter 
fliethtothe Sword, Chrift bids him put it up, for they thatfo ule* it 
perHh by it : Hurting many, force th many to hurt you, or to defire their 
own deliverance, though by your hurt. 



CHAP. 



[«] 



CHAP. III. 

The leghnnng of the DoBors m/reajonable Accusations examined : 
His fiatnig of the Cafe of Separation. 

§ i. >TpHis much inftead of an intelligible dating of our Contro- 
JL verfie he giveth us, Page 2. [_By feparation we mean nothing 
elfe, but withdrawing from the conftant Communion of our Church , and 
joyning with Separate Congregations, for greater purity of worflrip, and bet* 
ter means of Edification. ~] And may we.be fare by this, that we under- 
hand the difference. 

i. Whether by [ Our Church ~\ he meant the Parochial Church, ( and if 
fo, whether fome or all ) or the Dioccfan Church i or the Provincial, or 
the National, or all I know not. But 1 know well, that fbme withdraw 
frcm fome Parifh Churches which joynwith others. And fbme think 
they withdraw not from the Diocefan or Provincial , if they communi- 
cate with any one Parifh Church in the Diocefs : And fome renounce 
the Diocefan Church , which confiantly joyn with the Parochial : And 
for the National Church, who can tell whether we have Communion 
with it, till we know what they mean by it ?. Indeed in the latter part, 
(after the long difpute) he condefcendcth beyond expectation to explain 
that term i But its fo as plainly to deny that there is any fuch thing as a 
Church of England in a Political fenfe, that hath any conftitutive Regent 
part: But even there fo late he maketh it not polfible to us to know, 
whether we be members of the Church or not : For he maketh it to be 
but all the Chriftians and Churches in the Kingdom joyned by confent 
expreft by their Reprefentatives in Parliament, under the fame civil Go- 
vernment and Rules of Religion ( Doctrine, and Worfhip, and Govern- 
ment ) i. As it is a Chriftian Kingdom^ we are fure, that we are mem- 
bers of k. 2. As it is all the Churches of the Kingdom confenting to 
the Scriptures, yea, and to Articles of Doctrine, and all that Chri/t or 
his Apoltles taught, we are fure that we withdraw not from it: 3. But, 
if every Chancellor, Dean, Commiffary, Surrogate,^. Or every forme 
or word or Cercmonie beeffential to their Church, we cannot tell who 
is of it and who not ? Or really whether any reject not. fome one forme, 
word or office > If every fuch thing be not ellential, he never in all the 
book tels us vvhar is, or how to know it, or who is of it. 

§ 3. And 



[*3l 

$2, And the word [ with driving ] feemeth to imply former C 
fnunion : And if ib, he maketh all the Anabaptifts, Independants, Viziby* 
terians, &c. Who never were of their Church, to be none of the Sepir* 
atiiishere meant. 

But if by [withdrawing] he mean [ not joyning in Communion] either 
he meaneth in the whole Communion or but in part : If the whole, then the 
many thoufands that live in the Parifhes and Communicate not in the 
Sacrament are no members of the Parirti Church. And who knoweth 
then who are of their Church? And how few in many Parifhes are of 
it, that yet pafs for Members of the Church of England ? And yet I 
thaPjoyn with them am none of it, in their account. 

And. J.. What meaneth he by [Conjlant Communion] I go totheParifk 
Church when iicknefs hindreth not, once a day ••> I go to the Sacrament, 
and am none of their Church. Thoulands go but rarely, and thoufands 
fcarceat all, at lead to the Sacrament, and thefeareof their Church and 
no (eparatiits. 

4. But perhaps the conjunction is explicative \_and \oyn with feparate 
Congregations for greater purity, and Edification : If fo, then he that never 
joyneth with them nor any other is none of the intended feparati/ts. 
2. Nor he that goeth to other Churches on other account; than for furh 
ty of Worship and Edification (As Papiiis that go as to the only true Church 
for the Authority J. 

§3. But the utter ambiguity is in the word feparate y And that you 
may underftand it he explaineth it by repeating it. Ey feparation he means 
withdrawingto feparatc Congregations. But the doubt is y which art the fe- 
parate Congregations. I named many forts of Lawful and unlawful fe- 
paration* , but he will not tell us which he meaneth by any intreaty . 

§. 4. I would my felf yet that I may be underftood, tell the reader what 
forts of feparation 1 renounce and what. I own : But I have done it fooft 
and largely, that lam afhamed to repeat it, as oft as mens confution calls 
me to it. The reader who thinks it worth his labour, may fee it done ir> 
my rirft ?lea for Feace, and in the Preface to my Cath. Theol. and fpecial- 
ly in the beginning of the third Part of my Treat, of Concord jind in Cbrifi. 
~DinB. And he calls me here afterward to the fame 

Certainly it is only finful feparation that is in the queftiom and as cer- 
tainly there are many forts not finful. I am locally feparate from all 
Churches fave that where I am. I morally feparate from the RomanChurch 
as an unlawful Policy, and all other which are injpecie again/t Gods word : 
I feparate from (ome for Herehe as being not capable matter of a Church, 
while they own not all the Effence ofChriftianity* I feparate from fome 

as 



[2 4 ] 
as impofing fin, and refufing my Communion without it. I feparate from 
Ibme as having no lawful Payors *, fome being uncapable matter, and feme, 
being ufurpers that have no true call: I feparate from fome only fo far 
as to prefer a better rebus fie ft antibus \ fometime a better as to the 
Doctrine, fometime as to the Worfhip, fometime as to the Difcipline 
iometime and moftly as to the Pallors worth and work > fome go from 
their own Parilh, becaufe the Minifter is very ignorant in comparifon of 
another towhom they go: lomethathear the Minifter preach againftpre- 
cifenefs and for Ceremonies, had rather hear another that callcth them to 
holinefs: fome that have tollerable Preachers go to Doctor Stillingfteet 
and Doctor Tillotfonzs better: fome go for neernefs to another Church. 
Some go from their own Parilh becaufe the Minifter cuts the Common- 
prayer too fhort, and Preacheth too longs fome becaufe they would have 
it fo, go to fuch : fome becaufe the Parfon is an Arminian \ others becaufe 
he is contrary. Some go to the Minifterthat isftrictin keeping the fcan- 
dalous from the Sacrament : fome therefore go from him: lbme remove 
their Dwellings or Lodgings for thefe ends > and fome do not : fome go 
from their ownParifh for the benefit of the Organs in another. And of 
old, when Nonconforming had Parifh Churches and ufed fome part of the 
Liturgy, many went to them from their ownParifhes. Some of thefe are 
lawful, fome are unlawful: Moft certainly they that go from their own 
Parishes, yea, or to Nonconforming AiTemblies, in London, go not all on 
the fame account: Nor doth the Doctor and fuch other feparate from me 
as I am faid to do from them, but otherwife and much more. 

§.5. If he would firft have told us what Separation isfinful > fecondly,and 
then have proved us guilty of it, in/kadofthe confufed talk ofSeparation, 
and a begging the queftion by fupofing that to be finful, which he will 
neither difcribe, nor prove fuch< it had been of fome ufefulnefs to our 
conviction. But I confefs I never liked thofe Phyfitians who give their 
Patients the Medicines that they are beft ftored with, or they can beft fpare, 
be the difeafe whatfoevcr h Nor thedifputer that poureth out what he is 
belt furniQied to fay, how ufelefs foever to the reader or to the Caufe. Di£- 
puteing mould not be like boys playing at Dufl pointy who cover their 
Points in a great heap of Duft, and then throw Stones or Cudgels at it, 
and he that firft uncovereth them wins them. Dully heaps of ambigu- 
ous words confufedly poured out, befriend not Truth that mould be Na- 
ked^nor the reader. 

§. 6. Some thought it was the Place called Conventicle boufes, which 
made the Conforming callus Sepjratijh j and they got oft into Parifh 
Churcbesand Chappells- But thefe were made the worft of fepatatifts , 

and 



[25] 
and punifhed the more. And doubletfs it is not meeting at any of the 
new Tabernacles, nor at the Spittle, nor atSturbridgz Fair, where Preach- 
ing hath long been ufed, nor in a Prifbn nor at the Gallows toPrif- 
oners and People, which are faulty Separation. 

§. 7. Some thought that they meant that its want of the Common- 
prayer that makethus Separators > and they have tryedand read the Com- 
mon-prater in their AfTemblys : But thefe have been accufed and (un^ad 
the more. And even Mr. Cbeny was forced to fly his Country for read- 
ing it, and Preaching in an unl'c.nfed meeting. And fome reading 
more and fome lefs, by this it will not be known who are the Separa- 
ting i The old Nonconforming in their Parifh Churches read fome more, 
fome lefs, and now fome Conformifts vary. They fay a Conformif: at 
Greenwich keepeth up a Common-prayer Conventicle i (ome Conformilts 
are accufed for overpaying much : One lately fufpended for wearing the 
Surplice too feldom, and refuting to pray for \_our gratious §ueen and 
James T)uk$ of York. ] How much of this goeth to make a Separatift I 

§. 8. Some thought it was want of the Magifrratcs leave that made 
them callus feparatifts: Eut when the King Licenled us, the accufation 
was the fame: yea Mr. Hinkley and many others tell you, that they took 
this for worftof all. 

$.9. Some fay it is want of theBifhops Licence: But as Mr. Tbo.G 
hath his Univerfity Licence, and I have Bilhop Sheldon s Licence ( I think- 
not invalidate ) and yet this goeth for no juftiheation of us ■-> [0 is it with 
others. 

§. 10. Some think that it is a Conventicle as defcribed by their Can- 
non that mull make us Separating, which is of men that call tbemfilveibl 
another Clmrcb. Eut that's not it : Mr. Gouge, Mr. Toole, Mr. Humphrey, 
and my felf, and abundance more that never gathered any Church, nor 
called our felves of any other then their own, are neverthclefs feparatifts 
in thefe mens account. 

§. 11 .They that remembred what was called Separation in Englandof 
old, fuppofed it had thefe two degrees, which mide men called Brown ifts. 
Frft fallly taking the Parifb Minifters and Churches for no true Miniitcrs 
and Churches of Chrifr, and therefore not to be Communicated with. Se^ 
condly or fin the lower rank ytalily taking the faults of the Parilh Mi- 
nifters and Churches to be fo great, that its a (in to have ordinary Commu- 
nion with them. But they that have f;ill difclaimed both thefe arc Separa- 
tes Jhll in our Accufers fence. 

§.12. Some thought that ordinary Commitnkating in the Parifh Churches 
and pleading for it, would prove us no feparatilts with them. Eut this 

E wiH 



[ 2 <n 

will not fervc as my own and many other mens Experience proveth. 

§.13- I am called after to fay more of this: The (urn of my teparation 
is this. Fir/t that I take not the Parifh Churches to be the only Churches 
that I mud Communicate with, and will not confine my Communion to 
themalone, as if they were a feci:, or All : But will alfo have Communion 
with "Dutch, French or Nonconforming. 

2. I take not the Order, Difcipline and mode of worfhip in the Parifh 
Churches, nor the Preaching of very many Parfons, Vicars and Curates, 
to be the beft and mod deferable. » 

3. I take thofe to be no true Political Churches, which have no Pay- 
ors that have all the Qualifications, and Call, and Authority, which is 
EiTential to the Office > and therefore can communicate with them, but 
as with a flock without a Paftor, or an Oratory, Community or Catechi- 
zed Company. 

4. I live peaceably under fuch Bifhops as have many hundred Parifhes, 
and no Epifiopos Gregis, true Bifhops and Paftoral Churches under them, 
as they think : Eut I own not their Conftitution. 

5. I joyn with all the Churches in England as Affociated for rnutual 
help and Concord in all that the Scripture prefcribeth, and in all the Pro- 
teftant Religion, and all that all Chriflian Churches are agreed in, 
and all that is truly needful to the ends of Chriftianity : Eut not absolute- 
ly in all, which their Canons, Liturgy &c. conttaine: Efpecially their fin* 
ful Impositions, and their Prefumtious Canonical "Excommunications of dif-^ 
tenters ipfo fafto. 

<5. I am one of the Chriflian Kingdom of England, as under the King 
according to the Oaths of Allegiance and Supremacy » and am for obeying 
the Laws and Rules in all things lawfully belonging to their Power to 
command. But not for obeying them in fin, againft God, nor for believ- 
i ng all to be Lawful becaufe they command it i nor for their taking down 
Family Government or felf Government, and decerning private Judgment 
of the fubjects. This is my meafureof feparation. 

§ 14. . And I think in cafes that concern our own and many mens Salva- 
tion we ihould have leave freely to fpeakfbrour felvesi and not be ufed as 
we are, that muft neither be endured to be filent, or tofpeak. Let this Dr. 
open our cafe to you himfelf, faith he £ Pref. p. 3 6. Speaking of my firir 
Plea for Peace [ As though it had been defignedon purpofeto reprefent the Cler- 
gy of our Church as a Company of Notorious, Lying and Perjured Villains for 
Conforming 1 the Laws of the Land and orders eflabli/hed among us : For there 
are no left, than thirty tremendous aggravations of the fin of Conformity fet down 
ink and all this done without the leafi provocation given on our fide ~] And elf- 

where 



1*7 1 

where he faith he (hall lefs regard my aggravation. 

Anf. l. If I do that which you think as bad, I would gladly be told 
of it f though falfe accufations Idefirenot) And impenitence is too foon 
learnt without a Teacher or Academical degrees, and I had rather be fav- 
cdfrom it. 2. But Reader I once more appeal to the Judgment of all 
reafon and humanity as well as Chriftianity, to decide the cafe of this 
Accufation. 

i. Wedidin, 1660, and 1661. All that we were able by labour pe- 
tition and yielding as far as we durit for fear of iin and Hell, to have 
been united and lived in Church Concord with the Epifcopal party. 

2. Wrien our labour and hopes were fruftrate and twothoufand of us 
caftoutofthe Miniftery, and afterwards laws made againft us as Con- 
venticlers, firfi for our Fining, Imprifonment, and then Banishment, and 
after beiides Imprifonment to pay twenty pound the firft Sermon, and 
forty pound thesnext and fb on i when after this the Law that banifhed 
us from all Cities, Corporations, &c. and places where we lately Preach- 
ed , did moft deeply accufe us as the caufe j I never wrote fo much as the 
reafonsofour diflent: When by the execution of thefe Laws we u 
by Informers and others ufed, as is well known, I was Rill Client, My 
not conforming (hewed my diflent, but Idurft not fo much as once tell 
them why, left it mould more exafperate them. 

3 . At lait I was often told that the Bilhop that fir ft forbad my Preach- 
ing, and many others after him, oft faid to Great men, Mr. Baxter kc; 
up a Schifm, ai:d yet holds all our conformity lawful, lave rum 
rebellious Covenant, And I yet continued (ilenr. 

4. At laft they wrote againft us, that we durfl not fay that any fart of" 
Conformity was fin, but only inconvenient . 

5. Then many Pulpits and books proclaim , that roe againft our Con- 
fciences kgpt np a Scbifm , for a baffled caufe which we had nothing to fay 

for. 

6. All this wlvle Lords and Commons ufed to ask us, what is it tba 
would have, and what kgepeth you from Conformity, [in private talk, but 
would never allow us to fpeak for our fclves and give the world or Par* 
liamentour reafons ]. 

7. Many years together Pulpits and Printed Books of the Clergy, 
eryed out to the Magiftratcs to execute the Laws againft us, fand as one 
faid fet fire toth Fagot ) > and blamed them tor not doing it. 

8. When the King gave us his Licence, they were gieatly offended, 
asaforeiaid. 

$>- At lair one great Bifhop fold me that he wo ild defirc th Kir.r to 

E 2 conftram 



[a8] 

conilraine us to give our reafons, and not keep up aSchffm, and not tell 
for what. And another greater told me, that the King tool^usto be not 
fincere, that would not give our reafons. And all this while I durit not give 
them, as knowing how they would be received. 

io. When the Bifhops kept me from Preaching and gave me leifure, 
Iwrote. i. An Apology tor our Preaching, 2. A Treatife of Epifcopi- 
cy and divers other fuch, and yet durft not Print them fnor indeed could 
do it.) 

1 i . At laft after about feventeen or eighteen, years filence , by 
fuch importunity ( and the Prefs being more open ) 1 ventured firii 
but to write my firlt Plea for Peace, which only nameth matter ofFad:, 
and our bare Judgment, enumerating the things which we think <in, 
without our Arguments, left it mould provoke them more. And there- 
in profeiTed that (knowing mens different Educations, frudies, interefts, 
&c. ) I did not by this accufe the Conformists, nor the Law makers, 
but only tell, i* What! thought woddbefininm^ 2. And bow great a fin > 
if we conformed. 

Reader, fbouldl have flayed longer (the final Tradr of Sacrilegious 
defertionof the Miniftry, came out when we were licenfed, but ventured 
not to name the matters of our Nonconformity ) what could we do lefs > 
I ftaid till I think half the filenced Minittcrs were dead* Is the call offu- 
psrkurs, the Intereft of our Miniftry, and Confciences of Co little re- 
gard as that Imuft not tell men that fo loud and loi.g had asked, 
rvhats the matter f Mud we neither he filent nor fpeak ? 

And now fee here, i- If Dean Stillingfleet be a man to be believed in 
fuch accufations, [All this was dune by rne, without the leafi provocation on their 
fide~\ wonderful diiference / Is my naming what I think God forbids me, 
io great a provocation to them, and is all this for feventeen years before 
named £ not the leafi provocation to us on their part ? What fhall one think 
could bring fuch a man to fuch a word ? 

2. And that which I profeit that I wrote not to accufe them, he tells 
you was [_as if deigned to reprefentthenaasa Company of notorious lying; 
Perjured Villains.. This Colleclion I feared \ But how could I avoid it ? 
Mull not I tell them that urge me, what fin I fear, leaft they fay you re* 
frefent us as fuch ? 

3. See here how they talkof us contrarily as the Barbarians of Paxl 
that now make him a Murderer, and anon a God > For many years to- 
gether, our Lords and Matters perfwaded men that we took Conformi- 
ty to be no iin, fave renouncing the Covenant : And now how Contra - 
tj\? Its the reprefentation of a Company of notorious, Iving , perjur* 

ed, 



[=93 

td Villains, with thirty tremendous aggravations. Repent England, 
faith Bradford at the ftake. But who would have thought that Repen- 
tance had been fo hard a work, in a cafe called fo heynous, and that 
to the Preachers of Repentance, as it is either to them or to us, whicii 
ever it be that is found in the guilt. 



CHAP. IV. 

Of his Hiflory of the cafe of the old Nonconform ifis. 

§ i. A S to what he faith of the famenefs of the former Cafe and ours, 
ll I fhall cell him the ditferc nee after, where he more calls me to 
in Andfhall (hew him fo much difference, as will difcredit thisafTer- 
tion. 

§2. As to the cafe of the old Nonconforming, i. It mud be premif- 
ed that we take them not for any of our rule, but cleave to Gods word 
and the example ef the Primitive Church, looking ftill at the great ends 
of order and Government. 

2. We maintain as well as he that the Chief Nonconforming were 
asgainft that called Brownifm or Separation , and wrote more again!; it 
than the Conforming did. 

3. I ftill profefs my felf to be of their Judgment in this, and have 
pradtifed accordingly. 

4. But they were not again ft fuch Preachings or anyfuch fort ol 
paration as-I have either pradtifed or defended. 

§3. Here therefore it muft be known what the Controverfie betw 
them and thefeparatifts was. 1. The higher fort of iepararilts Grid, that 
the Church of England was no true Church. The Nonconforming, faid 
it was a true National Church both as a Chrifiian- Kingdom, and as 
an Aflbciation of Churches > (and as represented in National S. 
ods were they made one. ) 

2. The faid Brownifts fatd— that the Parifti Churches were no : 
Churches, nor to be owned as fucli, nor joyned with. The Nenconf< 
taifts held that they are true Churches, (-that have capable Minifies 
though faulty. 

3. The feparatifts faid that the Parifh Mini iiers were no true Mini;. 
becaufe ordained by Diocefans and notchofen by the people, &c. J 
Nonconforming faid, thatthe capable were trae though faulty Miniftt 

t 3 QW 



owned by the peoples confenting communion , and the ordination va- 
lid though culpable. 

4. The feparatifts faid that Minifters and people muft gather Church- 
es that are purer., and letup better dilcipline in them, whatever Rulers fay 
or do againft if., or whatever they fuffer, as far as they are able. The 
Nonconform fts faid, this is to be done where it may be done without dol- 
ing more hurt than good, but elfe itisnoduty but a fin, viz, Todo it 
Tumultuoufly, Seditiously, or foasby runningon the Magiftrates fword, 
by improbable attempts to lofe their own advantages for doing and 
getting good, and hinder the common parifh reformation. 

5. The Separating faid that no prohibition of the Magiilrate will war- 
rant a Miniflcr to forbear the publick work of his office. The Noncon- 
forming held that it belongeth to the Magiftrate toreftrain deceivers and 
all falfe Teachers who do more hurt than good* and fuch mould obey 
when they are forbidden to Preach and Adminifter Sacraments : Yea if 
the Magiflrate wrongfully forbid a worthy Minifter to Preach, for or- 
der he is bound to obey, unlets tke need of the Church and Souls, and 
the probable benefit plainly weigh down that matter of order, and make 
the Magiftratcs prohibition invalid , as being againft the corrmon good, 
and the ends of the Min'ftry, and foagainlT Chriit. 

6. The fern;- feparatifts (Robinfons party ) after held that though the 
Parifh Churches may be called true Churches, as a Leper is a true man, and 
it may be lawful to hear a Sermon in them, ye.t the Common- prayer is fo 
bad, and the people and Minifters fo bad, and difcipline fo call out 
that it is unlawful to joyn with them in Common-prayer, or Sacrament, 
or to become fetlea members of them j but all muft attempt, though 
in Forreign Countreys, that are able, to fet up purer worfhip and dif- 
cipline- The Nonconform] lis held that thofe that can have Letter with- 
out more hurt than good, mould cbcofe it: But they that cannot may 
joyn in member -(hip, Common-prayer and Sacrament, with fuch Parifh 
Churches as will admit them without their own a&ualiin, and cenfent^ 
ing to their faults. 

§. 4. I mall now give you fo full proof that the Nonconforming were 
fcr more, which the Dc&orcalleth Siparation^ than my Preaching or 
piadice ever reached to, as I (hall tell the Reader, what credit this 
Do&ors hiftory deferveth, and what inhumane ufuage the Nonconfor- 
mity have from that fort of men. 

§. 5. Anno 159^ Was printed againft them Bifhop Bancroft's book 
cil led, Dangerous Portions and Proceedings &c. Or Engl/Jh Scut i zing for 
Vijcipline by force 3cc. In the firfl book he mafc-th their Reformations 

fo 



Co odious, as that Page 30. He faith that in Scotland [itbatb wrought 
more mi) 'chief in 'thirty year s, than the Pipe of Rome had done before, as I 
thinks in five hundred^ you fee how that Spirit then did work,and whether 
our Arch-Bi»hop Bancroft thought better of the Presbyterian Churches 
or the Pope, and the Effects. 

In the Second book he taketh up what ram words he could from a- 
ny indifcreet men to make them odious. 

In the third he (heweth what the F.nglim Nonconforming did tor 
their Church-way and Difcipline. Chap. i.p. 42. He faith that the nrir 
Ten or Eleven years of the Queens Reign they fo clamoured &c. tint 
they divided themfelves from their ordinary Congregations, and meet- 
ing in houfes, woods and fields, kept there unlawful and diforderly Conven- 
ticles : and Mr. Cartwright defendeth them, faying, that the nam* of Con- 
venticles was too light and contemptuous for them \ Then they framed their 
two admonitions: In one of which p. 60, 61. They tell the Parlia- 
ment that their Difcipline was Gods order, and they mull in Confcience fpe\ 
for it, and ttfe it. And Anno 1572. They eredred a Presbytery at 
IVandfworth. The Elders are named. The perfons named chat fet 
up meetings are Mr. Field , Wilcox , Standen , Jickjon , Bentham , 
Sander, Crane, Edmonds, and after ClarJ^, Travers, Barber, Gardiner, 
Cheflon, Crooks Egerton. Anno 1582. There was a meeting of threefcore 
Minifters out of Effex, Cambridg-fljire and Norfolk^ at Cock^field, Mr. Knew* 
Jiubs Town. And another that year at a Commencement at Cam- 
bridge, 

Chap. 3. That they drew up a book of their Difcipline, where choice 
of Minillers, Elders, Deacons &c. are named and regulated, and for 
Claffical, Provincial, Comitial Synods and Government. Chip. 4. He 
tells ycu how they profecuted it Anno 1583. Out of Chohnky, Field, 
Fen , Wdcox, Axton, Gellebrand, IF right, Gifford. Chap. 5. How they 
proceeded. 1587. And 1590- Northampton- fkin was divided into 
three ClalTes. Firfr the Northampton Claifs had Mr. Snape, Penrie, Sibthorp, 
Edwards, Littleton, Bradfhaw, Lar\, F leftward, Spicer &c. The T>ai. - 
trie Clailis had Mr. Barebon, R gers, King, Smart, Sharp, Prowdloe, El- 
lijhn&c. The Ktttcring Galas had Mr. Stone, WdliamCon . Fallybrook^, 
Patinfon , Majfey &c. And Jahnfon faith it was received in IVarwick^ftirt 
Sufoll^, Norfolk Effex, and molt parts ©f England j fo Smith, Hangjr, 
Holme witnefs, Mr Snape faid. About Braintne the ClaiTis had Mr. Cul- 
t'erwel, Mr. Rogers, Mi. Gifford, (one of our Doctor's wittneflesjdh'. 
That at Colchejhr had Doctor Chap. nan, Doitor Chric 1 ^, Mr. Dowe, Mr. 
Farrar, Mr. Newman, Mr- ley, &c. Page 85. Mr. Snape CM, It wasa* 

greed 



C30 

£reed en in theCIafTical and general affemblies, that the dumb Minifrers 
were no Minifters, and that all the Minifters (hould Preach for the afor.- 
faid Governmen t- 

Chap. 6. Anno 15S8. A Synod at C m uuij agreed againft private Bap- 
tifm, reading Homilies, the Oofs in Baptifm, and that the faithful 
ot to communicate with unlearned ( they mean uncapable ) Mi- 
nitte may be pre lent at their Service, if they come of pur- 

pofe to heir a Sermon. For Laymen may read publick Service. That 
the callingof Biftiops &c* is unlawful. That it is not lawful to be or- 
dained by them, or denounce their Sufpentions or Excommunications. 
That its not lawful to reft in the Eimcps deprivation of any from the 
Miniliry. except on confultation with neighbour Minifters and their flock, 
it feemsfo good to therm but that he continue in the fame till he be 
mpelkd to the contrary by Civil force, ccc And the Difcipline fub- 
fcribed by Cartwrigbt, Fen, Wright, Oxenbridge,GeIlylrand,C N*t~ 

ier, Fetberihne, Helm, Lord &c. To repeat all is too tedious. 

Putits worth the noteing that whereas the Prelatifts ufually fay, that 

rebzn they were pit to draw up a Liturgy tbemj:. Tree of a- 

ny, Bithop Bancroft faith Page p<5. Iloey offered the Parliament a ho^sf their 

wmm\ containing the form of Common -prayers dec* and hoped to have had it 

abrifhed. 

Tage 164. Chap. 12. He tells you of their ordf r for Parents to offer 
their own Children to Baptifm, and be Godfathers &c. H? proceedeth 
to (hew that they rcfolved to pra&ice their Difcipline againit the Ma- 
giftrateswill, and did accordingly. And Chap. 15./?. 120. That they 
foyned chemfelres into an Alfociation or brother- hood, and appropriated 
to their meetings the name of the Church, thereby (hewing themfelves 
to be moft notorious Schifmaticks, citeing their words ( our Churches) 
And p. 121. That the Pari(h where they preach alTembied, is not the 
Church' pi operly in their fence, but as many thereof only asarejoyned 
to them with that inviolable bond, viz. The deiire of the godly Dif- 
cipline, and thofe furthermore who leaving their own Parifh Churches 
ccme to them. e.g. The Church of God, forfcoth in Blackjryars confifts 
befides that Pariih of a number of men and Merchants wives difperfed 
here and there throughout the whole City. Mr. ■ S nape's tefrimony is 
cited. 

§ 6. Ey thefe words of Bancroft and the cafe compared, it is cer- 
tain that on thefe fuppofitions many of the Canons were made again/i 
themj as againft Conventicles and calling themfelves another Church, 
and a brother-hood, and about God fathers and many more , fuppo- 
fjogthemtobe of this mind. § 7. 



§ 7. On fuppofirion that thcfe things were true, the N : r : - - : r - 
mills have to this day been accuied by thofe that write again ft them, 
and the teirioiony of this book alledged as proof. And Doctor Utyhn 
hath in folio accordingly defcribed them in his Kil;ery of Presbytery, 
as many others have done. 

§ 8. And now cometh Doctor StUlimgjket^ and tdls yon, that [ 
em ain that all tbt §ld Nr mm i fm m ifls ~\ were quite of another mind, and 
other men, and to prove it citetbfour or £ve mens words against Ercw* 
nifis i When yet he citeth rrore of my own againft Reparation : and if 
my wcrds zicvt ~.t r.~: :c zt izi ::.:': ;:. [ _-.v -*:'.'. :h:i:5 z: : v; :' t~ ' : 
be againi:ir? 

$ p. Either Bancrofts^ Hgylias and fuch others words of them are troe 
or felfe. If fnre, how untrue are Doctor Stilliagfktt's? IffaMe, O 
what a fort of men were thefe Prelates that (b frigrnatized and accufed 
and fo tiled lb many hundred fuch men, on fo lalfe a charge ? And 
what a Church was it that made the Canons again!? them on that 
fuppofition? And how Gull we know which of them to believe > Doth 
not Doctor Stillingf&t heavily reproach his own Church for fcch 
ufuage of them ?. 

§ 10. The cafe is commonly known, Firfi that a long time they 
had almoft a]] of them ParUh Churches as other men had r and they 
fought to let up Discipline in thole Churches. And it had, been folly 
then to gather others in other places. 

2. When Bancroft and others had gc: many af: -cur and deuced, 
a great part of them kept in by connivence of feme peaceable BiuV 
and by the mediation of fome Lords and Gentlemen, fuch as the Earl of 
Laafier, Bedford JFanrkJ^^ the Lord &*£&%, Sir Framdi, Walfngham^ 
Sir Annas ?«r/«r, Sir Nutrias 2tam, Mr. Btal y and Sir Fronds KmmUr 
had been to them before: Yea the greater part of them by fuch favour 
got into privikdged peculiar places,cr little Chapells at ieafr, Few Coun- 
ties had not fome Gentlemen that iheltred them. The EarlofHnr?* - 
urn kept in Mr. Hildafham at Afkby , Mr. Slater and Mr. Afh, even in the 
big Town of Bnmkbam^ Mr. SLnntrariKg kept in Mr. Ball at W'chwsre i 
Mr. Kmrhtlty kept in Mr. V*a\ J^dge Brantley ( and his humble laoly La- 
dy ) kept Mr. Brnmrlnll at Sheriff Hales, and entertained many moref Mr. 
Nio// &e.j Sir Kkbard Graves at Mtfdty bad Mr. Postman and divers o- 
thersjeldom without a Non-con formiit : One would thick Dccror Stillmg- 
flea (hould know that his c wa Patron, under whole wing he Iived,Sir K 
Bxrrir.it was feldom withe;.: 2 Nonconfca naift at Rnxkkl in JFamt^ 
fan: hU.Htring had long liberty at a Sbixmsbtry^ Mr. F§rd 

h ( m 



C343 

(who wrote on the Tfalms) had the School Le&ure there, Mr. Atkins 
at lipton, kept in to the laft, even the Lord Dudley, favouring him. 
Abundance fuch I might name, Mr. B.irnet, at Vppington (whom I oft 
heard Catechize Dr. Alleflree,) Mr. 'Tandy at Bewdley, Mr. Lingley, Mr. 
Paget, Mr. Hind, Mr. Lancafter , Mr. Rowle, Mr. Nieols , Mr. Mather^ 
Mr. Ratbband f Mr. Barbon, Mr. Gee, Mr. JVrigbt, Mr. Smart, dec, had 
their liberties for fome time. And when one Bilhop filenced them, the 
next oft gave them liberty (as Bimop Eridgnun did after Bi(hop Mortons 
filencing fome) and when they were filenced, they went oft into another 
Dioce!e,where they rubd out a year or more, and then to another » And lo 
were mil in fome hope of publick liberty. 

And when filenced they ufed to kcepe private faftsi And where they 
'odged topreach on pretenfeof expounding to as many as they could. 

They obeyed the Biftiops as Magistrates, but not as Pallors. 

They knowingly broke the Law in their private and publick Miniflry v 
They obeyed not the Canons ; ufed not much of the Liturgy y And many 
of them did as fome do now, get into publick Pulpits for a day and away, 
where they were not known. 

§. 12. But yet there are more undeniable evidences of the falfenefsof 
what, he faith, he is certain of, as the judgment of AH the Old Nonconform 
mfts. One is the known judgement of the Scotch Reformers, and the 
common accufationof theEnglim, as being of their mind. He that will 
affirm that the Scotch Presbyterians thought it unlawful to preach or 
hold Aflemblies, when forbidden by Magifhrates or Prelates, will incur a 
very (harp cenfure from their own Leaders, who have written fo many 
Books , which charge them with the contrary, aud make them Rebels 
and Seditious for it : Such as Bancroft, Hey tin, Beziers, and multitudes both 
old and new v efpecially thefe lalt twenty years. 

And though the Nonconform ills in England did not juftifie all that the 
Scots did ( and they that took Knox, Bucbanan, Melvin, and fuch other for 
very pious men, yet thought fome words and deeds too rafh, efpecially 
Knox's publick opening the Queens faults in the Pulpit, and refufingher 
offer to come at any time, and tell her of them privately J yet its known, 
that in the Rules of Difcipline, they were moftly of the fame judgment : 
And they often joyned in defending the fame Caufe. See their fcveral 
dcmonltrations of Difcipline, and the feveral Defences of them, how lit- 
tle they differed, when Bancroft preacht againft them at Pauls Crofs, Feb. 
8. 1588. An Englifh man wrote a Brief Difcovery of his untruths, &c. 
And a Scoth man J, ~D. Bancrofts rajhnefs in railing againji tbe Cburcb of 
Scotland, printed 159c* And how little differ they, if at all (and Dr. 

Reignolds 



[35] 

Reignoids wrote a Letteragainft it to Sir Francis Knowles, printed with { 
Francis Knowles his account to the Lord Burleigh of his Speech in Parlia- 
ment, againft the Bifhops keeping Courts in their own names, as con- 
demned by Law. 

And in many of their writings the Engliih own the Scotch Difdr 
and Church. And yet even thefe Scots have rejected Brown as a Schil- 
matick, and the Engl ifh Confuter of Bancrofts Sermon tells him, P^.43, 
44. Brown a hyorvn Schifrmtick^ is a Fit man to be one of your Wttntjfa a- 
againft: the Elderfhip : His entertainment in Scotland was fucb as a proud 
ungodly man deferred to have : God give him and yon repentance. And G//- 
fords y Pagets, Bradjharvs, Brigbtmans,Ratbbands, Balls, &c words again ft tl 
Brownifts proved not them to be againfr their own doctrine and pradtk 
no more than the Scots rejecting Brown proved them againft theirs. 

§ 13. And another proof is the common doctrine of the Nonconfor- 
ming, of the difference of the Magiftrates, and the Churches Orh.- 
♦Thc faid confutation of Bancroft hath it, pag. 45 and forward, and abun- 
dance of their publick writings j viz. That the Magistrate only hath the 
power of the Sword, and of Civil Government, and to reftrain and pu- 
fiifti Miniftersthat offend by Herefie orotherwife: But that as Preach- 
ing,Sacraments and the difciplinary 11 fc of the Keys are proper to the Mini - 
(try, fothe deciding ot Circumlhntial controvcrlies about them and a- 
bout the due ordering of them, doth primarily belong to Eccleliaftical 
Synods. Therefore if thefe Synods were for their Preaching, they were 
not for cealing itmeerly in obedience to the Magiftrate that fl'enced 
them. 

§ 14. And it is proved by the many Volumes which they wrote againft 
the Power of our Diocefans , that it was not any Ecclcfiaitical Au- 
thority of theirs (which they thought it a (in to difobey.J 

§15. And Mr. Fcx, a Nonconforming and many more of them, own 
the Doclrine of Wiclijf and John Huffe, and the Bohemians, for which 
the Synods of Conflance and Eafil , condemned them, who afnrm that it 
is a heynousim to give over Preaching, becaufe men excommunicate us, 
and that fuch are excommunicated by Chriir. 

§ i<5. And it is not nothing that the molt Learned Conforming agree 
with them, as I have oft cited Eifhop hilfons words, that the Magiftrate 
doth nor give us our power, nor may hinder our ufeofit, but is appoint- 
ed by God to protect and encourage us, and if he forbid or hinder us, 
weare to go on with our work and patiently fcti 

And even now I believe moft of the Leading Clergy think that if a Sy- 
nod bid us preach and hold aiTcmblics, and the King forbid it : we ?tc 

F 2 re 



[?0 

to obey the Synod rather than the King^ Mr. tborndike , and many o- 
thers. that write for the Church thought (b. And Mr. Vodwel thinks fo 
even of a particular Biihop. The difference then is but this: One par- 
ty giveth this power to a Synod of Eifhops (and Presbyters perhaps con- 
joyned) and the other to a Synod of Parochial Pallors, Doctors and El- 
ders. But both agreed that the Magiftrates prohibition in that cafe is not 
to be obeyed. And the Conformists will not take it well if I (hould fay 
that the Nonconform^ are more for obedience to Magiilrates than they: 
I lull except the Erafiians, and fuch as own Dr. Stillingfteets Irenicon. 

§ 17. There is a molt conikicrable book called A Petition direfted to 
for moji Excellent Majefiyfoeiving a meane how to compound the Civil Dif- 
fcnti.vis in the Church of England , where the Author ("I fuppofe fome 
Lawyer) Pag,- 23. tells us what was the difference between the Papifis 
and them that delired Reformation (Nonconforming) about the power 
of Magiftratc?. And, I. Ibey give the Prince Authority over all Perfons 
Ecclefiajtical wbatfoever > 'the Papifis exempt the Clergy : 2. they hold that 
a Prince may depofe a Priefi , as Solomon did Abiather, and accordingly 
they obey being filenced : 7be Tapifis deny it. 3: they affirm , if the Priefis 
makg wicked decrees, the Prince may enforce them to better. 7he Papifis deny 
it. 4. they fay Princes mu\\ and ought to make Laws for the Church, but with 
the advife of Godly Paftors : the Papifis deny it. 5. they hold that if the Paft- 
orsbe unlearned and ungodly, the Prince may of bimfelf without their advife, 
make Orders and Laws , for EcclefiajHcal matters : the Papifis deny it. 6. 
they will fubcribe in this point to the Articles of Religion eftablifljed by Law \ 
to the Apology of the Church of England, to the writings of Jewel, Horn, 
Nowel, Whitaker, Bilfon, Fulk. ibey takg the Oath of Supremacy: 

Here the fecond Article feemeth to be contrary to what I have faid. 
But the book whence he citetji it (dedifcipl. Ecclef. ) and all their writ- 
ings (hew, that it is but the fame that I fay, which they aflert, viz. That 
Princes ought to reftrain or (ilence intolerable men, and fuch Ufupers or 
dilinquents as give juft caufe. 2. That if they miftakeanddo it unju/h 
ly, we mult leave Temple and Tyths to their will. 3. Yea, and forbear our 
own publick Preaching when the publick good on the account of order 
and peace requireth it j but not when the publick good, and the necefc 
iity of Souls, and our own opportunities require the contrary. And the fi* 
lenced that fubmitted ftill,went on to exercife their Miniftry againft Law 
in that manner as beft conduced to its ends. 

And what this Auother faith of the Papifts, I fuppofe many of the 
higheft Prelatifts come nearer then the Nonconforming » and were the 
Prince againft them, would obey the Bifhops before him. 

And 



[37] 

And the fame book defer ibing the Nonconformists in twenty An 
p. 55. in the 8^. thus expoundcth it [ They teach that;.'.' tbeMini- 
fieri nor people ought to make any general Formation, with face anJarmef, 
or othertvife of their own authority change any larvs made or (jljbltfhed for 
Religion by Authority gf Parliament : But they hold that the general Reforma- 
tion duth belong to the Magijirates as Gods Lieutenant : and that for tbemfilvts 
they may and ought in dutiful fort both ? reach andlVrite, and fie to tin Ma- 
gijirates for rcdrcjs of Enormities, and alp) praUice the ordinances of Chri'i 
n h'ich he hath commanded his Church to kgcp to the end of the JForld. 

And Article 2 c. It is not all the unprepared Pari/h that they would I 
brouftpt under Difcipline: but thofe of each Parijh who are prepare I and rvil». 
ling?] 

§ .8. In (hort the demonstration, the fupplication, the humbe motion to 
the Council, and almoft all the Nonconformists writings (hew, that. I. 
Their great Caufewas to fet np Parifh Difcipline, under Superior Syn- 
ods. 2. Being rhemfclves almoft aU in publick Churches, at lead 
per z/cf/,and being Oil] in hope of publick reformation .they were greatly a- 
gainft the Brownifts violence, that would break thofe hopes.3. They held 
that Chrifts Law was thdr Rule, which commanded this Difcipline, 
which no MagiOraie could difpenfe with. 4. Bu' that Magiftrates mull 
be obeyed in fuch ordering of Church matters as belong to them. But 
not in forbearing fuchexercife of the Miniltry as was needful to its ends, 
the Churches good. And^itsfaid, they practifed accordingly, 

I. The Brownifts denyed the truth of the Parifh Miniftry and Church* 
es, and the lawfulnefs ot Communion with them. 1 1. The Semiiepara- 
tifts held it lawful to hear them preach, but not to joyn in the Liturgy 
and Sacrament. And this is it that PhiU Nye. wrote for. 

III. The Presbyterians and meer Nor confor mills thought it lawful, 
and meet in thofe Parishes which had capable Ministers , to joyn in borh 
Liturgy Sermons and Sacraments, where fin was notimpofed on then . 
Butfo ("as though forbidden ) while they had publick Churches, to do 
their bell to practice Chrifts Commands and Difcipline, and where tf 
could have none to further the fame ends as efTeclually as they could, 
in the opportunities left them. But never took it for their duty to lea 
all their Minitfry or publik preaching mccrlyin obedienc to the law 
much lefs to the Bifliops. 

When all this is fo notorious, and when I knew the minds of many 
aged Nonconforming about forty years agoe as my familiar friends, 
who were all of the fame mind in this as lam, what hiftory can I be 
more alTured of, than, as I fa id, that Firft, They took not praying 

F 3 publickiy 



[38] 

publlckly and gathering AiTemblies to be therefore finful, becaufe it wa-s 
forbidden by the Law. 2. But to be a fin againil Prudence and the 
ends of their; Miniftry, when it was like to do more hurt than good, 
by exafperating the Prince, and depriving therrifelves and others ot bet- 
ter advantages for thofe holy ends* 3. And that it was a duty when 
it was like to do more good than hurt: 4. And therefore they broke 
Laws where they could be endured, even in Chappells and Parifh Church- 
es. 

§ 5* Andit is not inconfiderable that the reafons why Calvin, Bui- 
linger^ Zanchy, Beza, faid what they did for fubmiilive forbearing pub- 
lick Preaching and Church gathering, wereFirft, Becaufeas they faw 
that the Prince was refolved not tofurTerit, fo Reformation was then 
but begun, and the Prince and Magillrates were the pricipal means of 
it, and they had great hopes that what could not be done at prefent 
ro perfect it, might be done afterwards at a fitter time. King Fdward 
was fain to quiet the feditious Papiils by making them beleive that 
Latin and Englifti, was the great difference between the former Mafs 
worfhip and the Liturgy: Aftertimes had no fuch ncceillty : and tumul- 
tuoufly todifturb the Magiftrate in his prudent progrefs of Reforming, 
had been to ferve the enemies of Reformation. 

But in our times Parliaments (who the Dodror S, faith, are in truffed 
fo Confent for us J have tbefe fifty years told the Kingdom that theRe- 
formajion was growing backwards, and (fit increafe of Popery by 
favour and publick tolleration defigr.ed, and much accompliflicd > and 
Plots threatned the restoring of it : and if Parliaments deceived us, yet 
the chief Aclorsthemfelves were to be believed : Doctor Heylin maketh 
the fyncretifm and clofure with them in the bofom of the now indul- 
gent Church,tobeArch-Bi(hop Lands very laudable deligns. Arch-Biihop 
Browbal, faith Grotius, was to have held fome place among ls, s$ 
a Protectant , and was of the Englidi Biftiops mind, and hehimfelfdoth 
fay the lafH and I have (hewed in his own words that Grotius took Rome 
for the Miilrisof all Churhces , and that there was no way for the 
Union of Protectants , buttojoyn in Union with Rome, and that he 
owned the Doclrine of the Councils even of Trent it felf, requiring 
but the amending of the Clergies lives ', and the calling by the Schoolmen? 
bold difputes t and the reflraint of the Popes Government to the Rule of 
the Canons, fecuring the rights of Kings and Bifbops, and this he faith will 
content the peaceable: Vincentius wrote a book called Grotius Papizans > 
Saravius in his Epiille upon ipeach with Grotius laments it as too true: 
His trie nd Dion, Petaviits told Mr. Ereskjn an honourable perfon atten- 
dant 



[39] 

danton the King, that Grotius refolved to have declared hirtifelf for 
the Church of forae, if he had returned alive from the joarny that 
he dyed in. See Mr. Tborndikes juit weights , what lie was 
for. 

And how far many Doctors of this Church, fome yet living , have 
maintained that Grotius principles are not Popery , and consequently 
what fuch mean by Popery when they difclaim it, I need not tell you , 
while (b many of them have published it in print? And are not Mr. 
Tborndick* termes of Concord in Councils till the eight hundredth year 
much like and much more in book aforefaid ? 

And furely there is great difference between fuch Preachings as were 
like to be the ruin of the begun Reformation by exasperating a Reforming 
Maginrate , and fuch Preaching as tendeth to flop the revolt of a re- 
fonned Nation, when Parliaments and the Agents themfelvcs of there- 
volt, proclaim the danger. 

Its true that there was then a greater fcarcityof Preachers than now : 
And that w r asthe Nonconforming argument with the Bifhops when they 
pleaded for publick liberty ; Eut its as true that they had far greater 
hopes of that Liberty, which it had been folly to caft away, for lefs : 
But it is not io with us> we are a greater number than they, 'and have 
new Laws to (hut us out not only of the Churches, but of Corporate 
ons, and Bifhops that will give us no fuch liberty. 

§ 6, And indeed fo many were the unlearned Parifh Priefts, and fo 
bad, in Queen Elizabeths daies, being many of them lately filly Mafs 
Priefls, that the (hameof the Church and the cry of the Proteftant peop- 
le forced the Bifhops to tolerate moll of the Nonconforming in fome 
publick Church , efpecially thofethat were moderate and did not pub - 
lickly oppofe them- Dr. Humphry was allowed Reigus ProfelTour in 
Oxford : Dr. John Keignolds Prefident of Corpus Ch. Col. Mr- Perkins , 
Ledturer in Cambridge , Mr. Paul Bayne after him, fo Dr. Chadeorton 
there^c fome tell men that thefc were all Conformiits,and of the Church i 
And yet I am none that am of the fame mind. The truth is, they were 
for fubmitting to kneeling at the Sacrament, Surplice and moffof the 
Liturgy, rather than ceafe Preaching: Eutthey were againft fubfeription, 
and theEnglim fort ofDiocefan EiQiopsand Government, and the im- 
pofedufeot thcCrofs, as it is in Baptifm ; As Tradition tells us, and 
you may partly fee in Dr. Reynolds Letter to Sir Francis Knowles , in 
Mr. Baynes, Diocefans Tryal, his Letters, and in Fuller and other Hi- 
{Tories, And Mr. Veering, Mr. Greenham, Mr. John Fox, Mr. Marbury, 
Dudley, Fewer, Mr. Knewflubs, yea I think fix or ten to one , were en- 
dured 



C4ol 

du'redin publick Churches long, before they were hindered i And when 
they were hindered , they fpake peaceablely and intreatingly , and 
were ftill in hope of publick Liberty, and were oft petitioning or mak- 
ing great Friends to the Bifhops to that end much they long obtained 
a*)d more they hoped for. How long Mr. Gravers was kept in at the 
Temple, is commonly known. 

§ 7. It is neither conliftent with my leifurc, nor the bufinefs now 
in hand,norIfuppofethe patience of moft readers, that I fhould prove 
this further by a Voluminous tranferibing Hiftorics already extant. If 
the Book which Dr. St. citeth called part of a Regifier be perufed, he 
will rind, 1. That the pafTage cited by the D. was the reprehenlion of 
many Londoners taken at a meeting in an open Hall of a Company, which 
meeting they avowed : Is this a proof that they were againft fuch 
publick meetings, or for it ? When for it they lay in many Prifons; 

2. That they profelTed that they forfook not the Publick Churches, 
till their Teachers were filenced and turned out; So little doth (iiencing 
tend to union. 

3. That yet thefe being ordinary Citizens, fpake many things weak* 
ly , crying out too ralhly of the Rags and Ceremonies of Antichrift: 
But he might have found many things in the Regifier more worthy his 
communication: For inftance. 

1. The LetterofDr. Wy: In the beginning. 2. Dr. Tilkington (after 
Eifhop of Durhxm) his Letter or weighty reafons again ft tilencing the 
Nonconformifts. 3. Mr. Edward Veerings arifwer to the Articles put to 
him, twice : with fober and Peaceable words. 4, Mr. Greenbams modeft 
and peaceable Apology to the Bilhop of E/i, againft Conformity, yet re- 
filling to give his Reafons , left they mould provoke till he were con- 
ftreined fas I did feventeen years J. All which (hew that the Non- 
conformifts then were moftlyin pofkiTion of fome publick Churches, or 
but newly turned out , and in hope of reftauration. And what is all 
this to our cafe of total and peremptory exclufion ? 

§8. Andmethinks the Dodtorlhould notdefifre to tempt the Reader 
that tryeth his citations to read the reft of that Regifter : viz. 1 The 
harfti ufage of Mr. Johnfon^ who dyed in prifon, driven into too (harp 
Language by their ufage. 2. The exceptions of Mr. Crane. 3. The Mi- 
nifters complaint to the Councils v 4» Efpecially the Councils Letter to the 
Jufticeson the bebalfof the Minifters, worthy to be perufed at this time. 
5 A notable Treatife called a Lettertoa Londoner, againft the Lega- 
lity of the B ; mops proceedings. 6. The Comons complaint for a Learned 
Miniftry, (hewing what a (hameful fort of men wer*kept in by the bifhops, 

white 



DM] 

while the ^5o neon for mi ft s were turned out and filcnced. 7. Tie pra<frif- 
esof the Prelates. 8. The Petition to the Queen and that to the Con- 
vocation, p. Mr. Marburys conference with the Bifhop of London, and 
his Arch-Deacon. How the Bifhop railed and fworc at him, and reviled 
hirofordefiring that all PariChes (hould have Preachers, as if Homily Pvea- 
ders were not enough. And yet Mr. Marbury was fo moderate that at laft 
with liberty of interpretation ("like Cbillingrvortbs ) he conformed. 10. 
Mr. Dudley Fenners defence ot theMinifters againft Dr. Er/Wgej ilanders : 
Written but a month before his dea;h, whereas theiaid Fenner was far 
from unlearned fas his Methodical 7 beohgia (hews) and was fo moderate 
that Dr. Ames faith he much conformed at laft 5 but it feems not enough : 
and he meweth how the Bifhops fet themteves againft fuch Preachers. 1 1 
Mr. Gawtons troubles. 12. Dudley Fenners Counter-poyfon , or certain 
form of Ecclef. Government and itsdefence. 13. The demonftration of 
of difcipline. Doth the Dr. believe indeed that thefe writings fignirie that 
the Nonconformfts of thofe times thought it a fin to Preach eo nomine be- 
caufe forbidden? 

§p. They wrote indeed a great deal more againft feparation than heck- 
eth , and more than all the Conformifts did. And yet they were not more 
againft it than Bifhop Bilfon^ who faith, If the Magiftrate forbid us our rvor\ 
xve muft go on> and patiently feffer. Mr. Hilderjham was called Malleus 
Scbifinaticorum, and yet he and I are Schifmaticks with theft men: Mr. 
John Fagets Arrow againft reparation, Mr. Bradjharv, Mr.> Gifford, Mr. 
B*//, &c m have faid enough, Eut he that knoweth their controverfie 
knoweththat it was none of the queition. whether k be lawful to Preach 
when the Magiftrate forbids it, or whether our Parifh Churches and 
Dioccfan bz to beprefered before more Reformed Churches when they 
may be had ? But whether. 1 . The Parifh Churches be no true Churches ? 
2. Or fuch as it is unlawful to communicate with occasionally ? 3. Or 
conliantly when no better can be had without greater hurt than bene- 
fit ? 4« Whether it be a duty to gather Churches or Preach publickly 
when it is like to do more hurt than good, by the Magiftrates op- 
pofltion } 5. Whether we (hould not quietly bear with that in a Church 
which we cannot reforme, while no fin is put on us, and the Communi- 
on of it is no worfe than that of our Parifh Churches ? In all thefe they 
were againft the feparatih's^ and foam I. 6, Yea they pleaded the duty 
of obeying the Magiftrate by forbearing to Preach when their Preaching 
was not neceffary : And fo do I. 

§ 10. One would think they that take Homilies for Sermons, fhould 
confefs that the Nonconfoimlis writing againit the prohibition of the 

G Law, 



E.40 

Law, was a Preaching, or much more: as it is more publick. And 
did the Nonconforming write tvben forbidden, Co much as Cartrvrigbt, 
Parker, Sandford , Fenner . Gilby, Ames , and aboundance more have 
done, yea and writ againit Diocefanes and Conformity as thefe and 
Braafhaw , Nichols, Erigbtman , Rzyne , 7rav?rs , and aboundance more 
have , even many hundreds, as the Millinary Petition and the Coun- 
try Complaints &c. (hew > and yet did thefe men every one of them 
take it for fin to Preach , becaufe it was difobedience I But nothing will 
convince fome men. 

§ ii. But I appeal to the reafon and humanity of mankind, into what 
hands the filenced and perfecuted Minifkrs are fallen? Is it humane 
firft to charge them with refifting the Laws, by Preaching, gathering 
Churches, and adminiftring Sacraments, and making Canons and fetting 
up new Difciplinc, and to publifti this to the land and world by fuch Au- 
thority as Arch BiGiop Bancrofts, Doctor Heylins &c. till it is become their 
CommonCharge to render them fufpecled and odious,and till this be taken 
for undoubted truth : And yet when it may ferve for the lllencing of usv 
to maintain it with Z>r. St. as that which he is certain of, that tbe old Noncon- 
for tnijls were againft fuch Preaching and aiFembling- At this rate we 
have been hitherto accufed and confuted. 

Yea upon the forefaid Accufations their Canons were formed againft 
the Nonconfcrmifts, forbidding their AiTembling, Preaching, calling 
themfelvesa diftincl: Church, and a great deal more fuch : and yet now 
the men that conform to thefe Canons are certain that they were made up. 
on fafe fuppolitions, and not one of the Nonconformifts were fo guil- 
ty. 

But doth not the Doctor thus grievoufly accufe the Church which he 
would defend.? Were they fuch men i. that would fo falfly accufe the 
Innocent 2. and ufe themfo cruelly on fuch falfe accufations, many of 
them dying in Prifons, and many lay there long &c. j. and to form 
Canons on fuch falfe fuppofitions > 

$ i?. Andldonot think I (hall prevail with him to tell me, whether 
he that thinks theirCafe and ours was fo much thefame,doth verily believe 
f. That if they had been in the Plague at London, and feen theforfaken 
people crowding for inftru&ion to prepare for death, the Nonconfor- 
mists ( fuch as Brad(hau>, Gifford, Hilderjham, Greenbam, &c. J. would 
have refufed to Preach to them. 

2. And if the next year they had feen the Churches burnt, and the 
City in ruins, and few Parilh Minifters officiate, they would have thought 
it a fin to Preach to the dcfolate City, to afTernble them to worfhip 

God» 



C433 
God, and would have let them under lb dreadful judgements, live 
and dye like prophane Atheiils ? 

3. And if fhortly after the King had Licenfed them to aiTtmblcand 
Preach, would they have refund it as a fin ? 

4. And if the Prelates had prevailed by fuch a Parliament againft 
the Kings Licenfe, and he fiill had (hewed the clemencie of his mind 
by his conivence , and Magiiirates were loth to execute the rigorous 
Laws, and people would not inform, and the informers repented, and 
thoufands more called to the Nonconforming for help , than did there 
when Popery ftuck ftill in the peoples hearts > would they have 
thought all this no alteration of the Cafe, to judge whether their Preach- 
ing would do good or hurt i 

§13. He tells us of the fewnefsof Nonconforming in King Edward's 
days. And it is a wonder that fo many in fo fhort a time, went lb 
far in the Reformation as they did. But fo faft were they then in pro- 
grefs, that even the Reformation of Church Laws then by the Com- 
miflioners agreed on was in many things fo much better than our 
Canons, as could we now but obtain the fame, would go far to 
heal us. Let me infiance in fome, and anticipate by it my anfwer 
to his after difcourfe againft Par i(h Difcipline. 

1. Cap. 18. de Hcref. They determine of the Salvation of the un- 
bapmed Infants of believers, the contempt only being damning. 

2. They define the Church vifible ( Cap 22, J to be tht Congrega- 
tion of all believers in which the Sacred Scripture is fincercly taught , and 
the Sacraments ( at leafi in the neceffary parts ) adminijired according tj 
Clmfls inflitutiou^But your Canons deny all fuch here to be true Church- 
es, fave theirs, as fettled by Law. 

3. De Sacram. Cap, 5. None to he admitted to the Sacrament till in 
the Church he have profeffed his faith. And de Div. Oir. Cap. 7 They 
that will receive the Communion muft the day before come fo the Miuijter 
that he may have time to excujfe their Confciences^ and deal with them if 
they have done any thing ungodly or fuperjiitioufly^ in which tlje Churc 1 is 
offended > and alfe may try their faiih^ that fo he may either correct U 
ignorancz^ or terrifie their Contumely, or confirm their doubting. For none 
ought to he admitted to the Holy table of the Lord , that hath not a per- 
fect belief"] The words need a gentle expolition : but we have no 
power now to try mens knowledge or belief thus. 

4. Cap. 10. After evening prayers , the Farifh Uinifhr Deacon and EL 
ders with the people , jhall call thofe that have been publicly perverfe, and 

Scandalous to confejs their fins , and to be publicity cor retted 7 that the 

g z a 



[443 

Church may be conformed by their whole fome correction. And the Mini- 
jier and Deacon with fome Elders fhall confult how the reft that are of 
vitious lives, may firft by brotherly love according to Chrifts prefcript in 
the Gofpel, be dealt with by fiber mens who fe admonitions if they receive, 

they Jhzll give God tbankj : But if they go on in the Crime , thiy flull 

bejharply punifljed as the Gojpel prefcribeth. ] 

5. De Condon. Cap. 3. Preachers Jhall name no guilty perfon before 

the multitude, unlefs fuch as have contemned Ecclefiaftical Admonitions ~] fuch 

m?y be named. 

6 4 De E xc. Excommunication for none but horrible Crimes , &c Cap* 

4. and after oft admonition. But you Excomunicate all Godly men 

that do but fay your Conformity is not lawful, ipfo faclo by your 

Canon. 

7. Cap. 6. \ We permit not the power of Excomunication to be 
in any one perfon: 'Though the confent of the wh le Church be fpeciaU 
ly difirahle , yet becaufe it is hard to gather and takg it , let Excom- 
munication thus proceed , that the Arch-Bifhop , Bifhop, or other law* 
ful Ecclefiajiical Judge , call ont Justice of peace , and the Minifier of 
the place where the guilty perfon dwelleth , &r his deputy , and two or three 
otlyer Learned and well manured Presbyters, in whofe prefence , when the 
matter hath been moft diligently handled aud gravely weighed, the 
(intenct or Excommunication fhall pafs. Cap. 7. And be writ- 

Cap. 16 There is written a large pious form like a Sermon 
to be ufed at the Reconciling of the penitent , and his form of con- 
teffion , and petition to be received , and then the Paftor of dm 
Chuich is to ask all the flock, whether they w ; l! forgive the offender and 
pray for bim> and whether they will have him received into their Congregation 
as a brother. And then the Paftor is to exhort the penitent, and then abfolve 
him ( A great andfolemn work, moft unlike your Difcipline ). And then 
to give God tbankj and pray for him and the Church. 

Should we now but move for thus much in order to concord 
with the Cconformifts, we have reafon to think no importunity 
could prevail for it i were the confequents of our diviiion as de- 
nial as they are now by moft proclaimed. - Yet verily we are 
moft unexcufeable wretches , if we have learned no more to this 
day than they did in fo few years 5 or under full power and 
opportunity will refift that good, which they that wanted fuch 
opportunity wifred for > and go back as fa(i as they went for- 
ward. 

§ 14. 



[49] 

Sett. 14. To p. 8. £1 never faid that the troubles at Franhford were 
Fo much about free or formal Prayer , as that the Presbyterians rtfufcd all 
forms.] 

Sett. 15. />. 19. He confelTeth that [_Whittingham^ Sampfon, Gdby and 
Others., accepted of preferment and employment in the Church, the Btjhop flaw- 
ing them kwdnefi for their forward zealous Preaching', 3 and this being with- 
out their fubfcribing to conform, is it any wonder then that they ga- 
thered not Aflemblies elfewhere f Had the Bifhops fo tryed us, we (hould 
never have put them to talk fo of our feparation, (but might have done 
our bell: to build more Churches.) Doth none of all this difference their 
cafe and ours? 

Sett. 16. p. 20. He confelTeth when [.they were flcnced, they began to 
have fepar ate Meetings,] and yet were all the old Non-Conformiits againlt 
fuch. 

Sett. 17. As to Beta's Letter, have not I faid more againil Separation 
than he doth i Doth the Dr. think the Reader fo blind as not to fee that 
Beta's words are juft of the fame importance with the account I gave, 
and contrary to his, trie \_He trembleth at the thoughts of their exercifing 
their funtt ion again(tthe will of the Qneen andBifiops, for fuch reafons as may 
be eafily underftood, though we fay never a word of them : ] Its eafie indeed to 
fee what he trembles at, and why he named them not, which he w T ould 
fure in charity have done, had it been becaufe it is finful difobedience to 
preach when forbidden : It was eafie to fee what hurt it would have done 
in the ruine of Preachers and hearers, and (baking all the begun Refor- 
mation : Its not fo with us , Gualter and Zanchy fay not fo much againil 
Separation as I do, nor John Fox y nor Bullinger whom he citeth ; we fay 
the fame. 

Sett. 18. Thefamel fay of Parker and Gifford, and I again tell him that 
he may name many more ; Hilderfiam, Paget, Ame, &c. I am of their judg- 
ment in their oppofition to the Brownifts ; but it is a notorious untruth 
(pag.3 3. J that the force of all the Non-Conformifts reafonings tgainft Separation, 
lay in two Suppofitions. I . That nothing could juftifie Separation from our 
Churchy but fuch corruption* which overthrew the being and con ft 'it ut ion of it ; 
&c. And 1 . It mull: be remembred that Separation being a word of very 
many fences,they held indeed that [ none ought to fepar ate from a Church ac- 
cufvng it to he none, but for that which proved it to be none. ] 2. But did they 
deny that which all the Chriftian World confelTeth fvix,. 1. What if cur 
Englifh Divines gathered by Bifhop Hall againft; Burton y be in the right, 
that the Church of Rome tf a true Church, as a Thief is a trUe man, (though 
I think otherwifej mull not fuch Bilhops or Conformilts therefore fepa- 
rate from them * H 2. What 



2. What if a Church impofe fome Lye, falfe Oath, or Subfcription, 
or fome actual Sin in Worfhip, as a condition fine qua non of her Commu- 
nion ; is it not lawful to feparate into better AfTemblies , ? 

3. What if they put down all preaching fave reading fome dry Homi- 
lies, and all Difcipline, is it not lawful elfewhere to ferve God better ? 
But of this more after where he repeateth it. The Brownifts cafe was quite 
other before defcribed. 

ScEt. 19. to/?. 36, 37. We alfo hold that whofoever feparateth from 
the Church of England, 1. As having not that Preaching and Sacraments 
which are of neceffity to Salvation. 2. Or as not profelfing true faving 
Faith, doth by confequence feparate from all Churches in the world > be- 
caufe they have all the fame Word, Sacraments, and Chriftian Faith. And 
to this Mr. Jacobs Argument is good, p. 3 8 ; ( though he was the man that 
anfwered Downams Sermon for Bifhops, and efteemed one of the firft In- 
dependents.*) And Mr. Balls words to the fame purpofe, and the fecond 
Suppofition p: ^p. we grant, and think verily that the late Conformifts 
have faid more againft the truth of the Church of England, than we ; yea, 
that we are the defenders of it againft the Brownifts and them, Ball^Btad- 
Jhaw, afford, Hilderfiam, &c< cited by him, defend it as we do, and bet- 
ter than fuch as Dr. Heylin, Thomdike, Mr. Dodwel, and fuch others. Did 
he think any of this concerned me? 

Seft. 20. Yes, for />. 74. he faith, [_ We would blind the Reader by finding 
cm the difparity. of fome Circumfiances •, but not one of us can deny that it was 
their judgment, that the holding feparate Congregations for worfiipy where there 
was an agreement in Doclrine and the fuhfi antiais of "Religion , was unlawful and 
fchifmatical. ~] 

Anfw. Its pity fo feeing a Dr. fhould tempt men to be fo blind, 1 . As to 
think all the differences which I have named, inconfiderable. 2. And to 
goon to abufe themfelves and others, with the ambiguous word [ Sepa- 
rate ] no better explained. 3. And to think the other caufes before and 
after named of fome fort of Separation, to be inefficient- andlamfor- 
ry for the Dr. if this be his own Profefllon, that he would tell any lie, or 
commit any other fin, or for fake any other part of Religion, ratherthan 
feparate to other Ailemblies,from a Church that agreed in Doclrine and 
the fubftantials of Worfhip with him. The Presbyterians then are fure 
of him,if they were but inpoffeflion *,and it feems in Mofcovy'he would for- 
iLke preaching. But what if the King licenfed a preaching Church, would 
he refute the ufe of it for fear of feparating from a mere reading Church. 

This Protean word [ feparate ] ferveth for many ufes : I will put one 
cafe more to the Dr. (not feigned.) A Conformift Gentleman was of 

the 



Cr>] 

the opinion that his Parifh Church was no true Church, becaufe the Vicar 
was a Socinian, and another becaufe theParfon was ignorant of the efTen- 
tials of Chriftianity j and they go to tht next Parifh Church. A Non- 
conformift in the fame Parifh, goeth to a Nonconformifts Chappel, but 
doth not acaife the Parifh Church as none, as the other do ; which of 
thefe feparateth more .' At Glcucefter one took the Diocefan Church for 
no true Church, becaufe Bifhop Goodman was a Papift, and the Bifhop 
is a conftitutive part, and yet this man was for Diocefans: A Noncon- 
forming went to a Nonconformifts Church, but would not fay the Diocefan 
Church was none : Which feparated more f He feparateth from his Parifh 
Church againft the Canon, who goeth from an ignorant fcandalous Rea- 
der, to communicate with a Preacher at the next Parifh : He feparateth 
from the Parifh Churches, who judgeth them true Churches, but having 
the Kings Licenfe, joyneth conftantly with the French, Dutch, or Non- 
conformifts as better, Ml owning mental communion where he hath not 
localjand he feparateth from the French,Dutch,or Nonconformift Church- 
es, who thus leaveth them (as true Churches) to joyn with the Church of 
£»g/Wasbetter.Many and various are the forts and degrees of Separation, 
and not all lawful or all unlawful: None of thefe are theBrownifls fepara- 
tion,which the old Nonconformifts confuted ^ which confuted in a denial, 
i. That the EnglifliMinifters were true Minifters. 2. And their Churches 
true Churches. ^.Or fuch as a Chriftian might lawfully live in communion 
with in ordinary worfhip. 4. And therefore they were all bound to re- 
nounce them, andfet up others. 

I doubt the Dr. is far more a Separatift than I, and fuch as I \ for I am for 
Communion with all Chriftians, as far as they feparate not from Chrift^ 
and I hate the falfe accufing of any Church as if it were none, or its Com- 
munion unlawful. I can be but in one place at once, but in heart I joyn 
with all Chriftians on earth except in fin \ and locally I joyn where 1 fee 
greateft reafon for it, preferring that which I judge meft agreeable to 
Gods word, fo far as 1 may without greater hurt. But the Canonical 
Conformifts, unchurch all the Churches here but their own, and utterly 
refufe Communion with them, even with thofe that refufe not Commu- 
nion with them. And fome think that forcible filencing, fining, excom- 
municating, and imprifoning, is not the gentlcft fort of feparating. 

But doth he in all his Book do any thing to fatisfie any mans Confcience, 
that would know from what Churches he may or may not feparate ? 
Not a word that lean find, that decideth fuch a doubt. His two words here 
ufed are [_ Agreement in Doctrine, and fubflantials of Religion^ ~] whereas 
1. Religion is in Acts and Habits ', and hath no proper fttbfrance, and what 

H 2 his 



C&3 

his term \_fnbfiance ] meaneth, till he tells us, none can know. It mufi: 
be either an effential part ? or an integral part, for an Accident I fuppofe it 
is not If only an ejfeniial part, what Chriftian dare fay that I may fin 
againft all the meer integrals of Religion,rather than go from the Church 
that impofeth fuch fin upon me. If it be all the integrals that we mnft 
agree in, then we differ in no one part of RtUgion •, for Accidents are not 
farts : And then who eontradicts him t When men differ in no part of 
Religion, they will not feparate unlefs merely locally : Are all the things 
named in my firft Flea, no farts of Religion ? It may be by [ Subflance~] 
he meaneth only the greater fort of Integrals , but how (hall we know 
where to£x our meafures 5 what duty is fo fmall that I may omit it, or 
what fin fo fmall that I may commit it for Communion. 

2. And as for Dotlrine, they that differ in any part of Religion, arc 
fuppofed to differ in the doctrine about that part. But can any man tell 
what Doctrine it is that he maketh our agreement in to be necefTary, or the 
teft of Communion. If I mould feparate from all Churches from which 
I differ in any the lead doctrine, I know not where the Diocefan or Na- 
tional Church is that I might hold Communion with : Do all the Con- 
forming agree in all doctrines ? If it be in all that the Law impofeth, how 
various, mutable, and uncertain is that. 

I diftinguifh between Dotlrine profeffed by the Chkrchy and Dotlrinc im- 
posed on me to profefs it. As to the firft, I will communicate with a Church 
that hath twenty falfe Doctrines, confident with. the effentials of Chri- 
ftianity and Church Communion. As to the fecond , I wiH not knowingly 
frofefs one falfe Dotlrine for Communion with any Church on Earth. 

Did not the Nonconformists differ from the Conformifts, in the Do- 
ftrine of thefufficiency of Scripture for regulating Church-Order and 
Worfhip ; and about the Divine Right of Diocefan: and Elders, and about 
Pari(h Discipline. Do not we now differ about the undoubted certainty of 
the falvation of all dying baptised Infants ? Will this warrant a feparation ? 

Sett. 21. f. 75. He tells us very confidently that diver fity of circumfran- 
tlal pretences for Separation, alter not the cafe : But 1. Its true that if twen- 
ty men have twenty falfe pretences for Separation,none of them are there- 
by juftified-, but if one man have a juft caufe, it juftifieth him ; Inamed 
very many juft and unjuft caufes in my Plea, and he.giveth noanfwer to it. 
2. Are they fuch circumflances before named : Oaths, Declarations, Sub- 
fcriptions, Doctrine, &c ? 3. What if the Lawfhould change, and al- 
low of various Churches!* what if the King Iicenfe them. ? Thefe be but 
circumflances: What if the Plague drive away theParifh Minifters f what 
if the Churches be burnt and the people forfaken ? will no fuch circum- 
stances 



ftances make other Aflemblies lawful, becaufe he calls them ferrate. 

Seel. 22. p. 78. His undertaking is repeated : [ He is certain that preach- 
ing in off fit ion to our eftablifijed Laves, is contrary to the Doctrine of all the 
Nonconformifts of former times. ] Anfw. If I have not proved the contrary, 
I cannot prove that they were Engiifh men. 

But 1. he proveth that they were all of that mind, by citing four of 
their Books againft Brownifts-, and were four or forty times tour, all? 
But Mr. Kathbands is faid to be the Nonconformifts. Doth he believe that 
he meant that all or the twentieth part of the Nonconformifts wrote or 
flbfcribed it * One of the Names to it is Mr. Simeon Jfi, my intimate 
dear friend, whofe judgment in thefe muterswas the fame with mine, 
whom I was with even inhisficknefs almoftto the Jaft hour of his Hfe.and 
was buryed Aug. 23. 1662. the day before the Law had elfe filenced him , 
and he was to me a better Expofitor of his own mind, than the Dr. can . 
be : He was fo much for going on to preach, that his Motto in his \-\\x&- 
va\Rlng\vas,ZlamnotaflLimedoftheGojpelofChnft:^\ I yet k:epmy Ring, 
and can (hew it you. 

And as to old Mr. Langky, another of them, I heard him my felf preach 
in Albriton Church in Shropflnre, aThankfgiving Sermon for the hopes of 
deliverance from the (ilencing Bifhops, when the Law forbad him : And 
for old Mr. Slater, I heard him preach at Trinity Church in Coventry when 
theLaw forbad him: And did they not underftand their own Writings 
better than the Dr. doth? 

Sftf.,23. And I would I knew how to prevail with him to tell me, whe- 
ther theLaw and Canon did not forbid all the Minifters in England to wor- 
fhip God according to the Directory, and neglect the Common Prayer 
Book, which yet almoft all did for many years in the times of ufurpation: 
And yet of nine thoufand or more of thefe, feven thoufand llnce conform- 
ed to the Church of England, and they lay that this Dr. is one of them. If 
mere difobedience then be the fin, all thefe lived folong in fin, and he with 
others. 

Sett. 24. But all that can be gathered out of the four Books cited and fuch 
others is but this, which is our judgment : 1. That Churches and Pallors 
are under the Kings Government as well as other Subjects. 2. That itbe- 
longeth to him to punifh them for evil doing, and encourage them in doing 
well. 3. That as to this his own execution, he is the publicK Judge whe- 
ther they do well or ill. 4. That i f he juftly forbid any to preach or aflem- 
ble he muft be obeyed. 5. And if he miftake in particular cafes, not de- 
ft roying the ends of his Government, the common good, he muft not be 
refilled, nor in fuch a manner difobeyed, astendeth more to the common 

hurt 



[54] 

hurt than his miftake doth , nor dilabfed to Govern by their dishonour- 
ing him, much lefs by Rebellion or Confufion. 6. Nor are men bound 
to caft away their great advantages for Gods fervice which they then had, 
en pretence of doing better ■, when by accident it would do more hurt than 
good, nor as Bradjknv faith , to run on the Sword, or oppofe Sword to 
Sword, or raife Sedition, and ruin themfelves in vain. 

Their advantages were many : i. Lawful Communion in the Parifh 
Churches. 2. Molt of them either conftantly or by fits, had publick 
Churches or Chappels to preach in, and were ftill in hope. 3. The Ma- 
giftrate protecled them and the Reformation. 4. They hoped for a pro- 
grefs of it, whereas had they openly done as the Brownifts, they had en- 
dangered the Reformation by the exafperation, and ruined themfelves, 
and loft moft of their labour : So that it is plain that preaching in that 
imprudent manner which is like to do more harm than good, they took 
to be a double fin, as hurtful %&& as disobedience *, for obedience is due in 
fuch a cafe. But in cafe the manner and circumftances be ftich as that thefe 
evils are not confequent, but more good than hurt to be expected •, they 
thought the bare breach of the Law no fin. 

Sett. 25. Which I yet further prove, 1. Becaufe its agreed by all, that 
Governing Order is a medium for the thing ordered *, and never obligeth 
when it overthroweth the end, power being given to Edification and not 
to Deftruction : None have power to forbid theneceffary preaching of 
the Gofpel, and probably to damn Souls. 2. Becaufe elfe the Noncon- 
formifts (hould be more againft preaching when forbidden than the Con- 
formifts •, who fay as Bifhop Bilfon, We muft go on with our work? & fuffer .• 
and as Bifhop Andrews Tortur.Torti. Cohibeat Regem Diaconus, &c. 3. Yea, 
shePapifts who on pretence of Obedience are tyrannical, yetmoftly agree 
fas I have elfewhere proved) that humane Laws bind not beyond the cafe 
of fcandal, when they are againft the common good: And a Toletane 
Council decreed, that their Conftitutions fhould not be taken to bind ad 
peceatum, fto hazard Souls) but only adpeenam. 4. As I have faid, their 
own pradice fully expounded their words, who conftantly broke the Law 
and Canon in preaching in Houfes and in Chappels without, or contrary 
to the Liturgy, or a part of it* So did Mr. Ball at Whitemore, Mr. Hind t 
at Banbury, Mr. Geree and Mr. Fox at Tewkftury, John Rogers at Dedham, 
Mr. Taylor, Mr. Harvy, Mr. Bourne at Manchefter, Mr. Gee, Mr. Johnfon 7 
Mr. Hancock Mr. Barlow, Mr. Broxholme , Mr. Cooper , and abundance 
more, befides thofe mentioned before. 

And now 1 leave it to the Dr.'s further thoughts, whether he fpake tru- 
ly of the fence of All theNonconfirmifts, and have proved what he under- 
took. 



[55] 

took.To abufe the Magiftrate, or do his part for publick Reformation, 
they were againft, and fo are we. 

Sett. 26. As to his queflion. Was there Ufs neceffuy then or now ? I anfwer, 
1. There was then more neceflity as there is of you or me in America, where 
we cannot preach , the people, lately Papifts, defired not their helps, nor 
fcrupled hearing others, as many thoufands do now.2.There was neceffuy 
then and fo there is now, but opportunity mult joyn with neceflity to oblige, 
which they had more than we by connivence in Chappels, where was ne- 
ceflity, and they had lefs than we in other places^ 

Sect. 27. As to the Anfwers of Mr. Sprint, on my knowledge the ufual 
anfwer was,That evil mall not be done that we may have leave to do good, 
and that if others hinder me becaufe I will not fin, it is not my omiffion of 
any duty •, yet the disparity of the Apoftlcs cafe and ours, may be menti- 
oned to (hew the difference of obligations. 

Pofitive Precepts bind not ad femper, but Negatives do *, and its too 
grofs a fhift to turn a Negative to a Pofitive, and then pretend that the 
comparifon is between two duties : preaching is a duty when we can do it, 
but not when we cannot do it, unlefs we will fwear, fubferibe, profefs, or 
pradtife a forbidden thing. 

Sett. 28. I conjecture that to what I have proved of the practice of the 
Nonconform ids, it will be faid that 'their preaching in peculiar places , 
Chappels, or Churches, though in a manner agai?ifi Law and Canon, was but a 
partial joyning with the Church of England, and not afeparation ; and the conni- 
vence of theBift ops was a kind of toleration. 

Anfw. i. And is not my cafe the fame? We had more than connivence 
when we had the Kings Licenfes, and ever fince experience tells you that 
his Clemency hath occafioned a reffraint of the Bifhops, and fome conni- 
vence from them. 2. And if it were the Temples that make the differ- 
ence, let them allow us to preach there and fee whether we will rcfufe it : 
And fure the Conformifts that preach in Tabernacles are not Separatifts ; 
the Parifh Teacher of St. Martins now preacheth in the fame place which 
1 built to have preached in, and for fo doing was by a warrant judged to 
prifon. They had no more Law on their tide than I have, they ufually 
read no more of the Liturgy but the ConfelTion and the Scriptures, and 
many not the firft at all, and fome more , fo that its a full proof that if 
breaking the Law had been all their flop, they would have ft ill preached. 

Se5i.2g.Dr. Ames tells us that he had preached without the Bifhops con- 
fent by this Story, frejh Suit, p. 4c 9. defcribingan Englifh Bifhops Paftoral 
work, hefaith. " It would be ridiculous for a mean man to defire Mm 
cc to vifit hkn, his Wife, or Children, inficknefsj he mult have a Chaplain 

"not 



"not only to do other duties of Religion for him, but even to give thanks 
" at his Table. I will not here fpeakof [draw up an Excommunication for 
u bim, take himPurfuivant, fay lor fee to your Prifoner ', ~\ but note one ex- 
sample of mine own experience, which many others can parallel : lwas 
"once (and but once 1 thank God) before a Bifhop, and being prefented 
"to him by the chief Magiftrates of a Corporation, to be Preacher in their 
" Town •, the lowly man firft asked them, how they durft; choofe a Preach- 
"er without his confent : Ycu (faid he) are to receive a Preacher that I 
" appoint you, for I am your Paftor, though he never fed them : And then 
"turning to me, [ How durft you, faid he, Preach in my Diocefs with- 
out my leave f ] So that without any other reafon but meer Lordfhip, 
" the whole Corporation and 1 were difmhTed to wait his leifure, which I 
" have done now twenty years and more. 

Much like the ufage of holy Paul Bayne, Succeflbr to Perkins, who be- 
ing commanded to preach a Vifitation Sermon, and being fickly and in a 
fweat with preaching, wasfaintorefrefhhimfelf inftead of going prefent- 
ly to attend the Bifhop •, and when he was fent for, having fmall Cuffs 
edged with a little blew thred, faith the Bifhop : How dare you appear be- 
fore me with thoje ? and hefufpended him : And good Mr. Bayne would never 
more have to do with a Bifhop, but laid, They are an earthly Generation, 
and favour not the things of God. 

When Dr. F/*/^ (ahalfConformift) went out of St. Johns Colledge in 
Cambridge with his Pupils, hiring Chambers for himfelf and them in the Town, 
it was as great a feparation from the Colledge (to avoid the Surplice which 
he after fubmitted to) as we make from the Church. See Ames frejh fuit, 
p. 473. And that it was no confcience of obeying the Bifhop, that Bez.a 
would have the Minifters moved by,Jrom affembling: Judge by thefe 
words, \_De notis Ecclef. Ego pontificiis — ] " I willingly leave to the 
"Papifts the whole degree of Epifcopacy, of which 1 openly fay, the 
"Holy Ghoft was not the Author, but humane prudence; which if we 
"obferve not that God hath curfed, certainly we even yet fee nothing - 7 
" and we nouriih a viper in our bofoms, which will again kill the Mother. 

Sett. 30. I will conclude with the recital of the Letter fent to the Bifhops 
by Dr. Humphrey, Regim ProfefTor in Oxford, who yet conftrained, ufed 
the Surplice after that; Our Dr. may note what fence they had then of 
thefe things, premifing only the words of John Fox, fpeaking of Blumfield 
a wicked Perfecutor, who threatned a godly man, Simon Harelfon, for not 
wearing the Surplice : C Its pity, faith he, fetch baits of Popery are left to the 
enemies to take Chriflians in ', God take, them away from us, or mfrom them : for 
God hnowcth they be the canfe of much blindnefs andflrife among men* 

Dr. 



ITrl 

Dr. Humphrey's Letter to the B i s h o p s. 

"^7 Our Lor dfiip Letter > directed unto us by our Vice-Chancellor, a!- 
X " though written in general words, yet hath fo hearted our Ad ver- 
" faries, that we are now no more counted Brethren and Friends but Ene- 
" mies ^ and fith the oJd Mafs attires be fo ftraitly commanded, the Mafs 
" it felf is (hortly looked for. A Sword now is put into the enemies hands 
" of thefe that under Q^Mary have drawn it for Popery,and under pretence 
"of good order, are ready without caufe to bewreck their Popiih anger 
" upon us, who in this will ufe extremity, in other laws of more impor- 
tance, partiality .1 would have wifhed,my Lords,rather privy admonition 
" than open expulfion ■■> yea I had rather have received wounds of my Bro- 
" ther , than Rifles of mine Enemy ^ if we had privily in a convenient day re- 
"figned, then neither fhould the punifher have been noted of cruelty, 
"neither the offender of temerity, neither fhould the Papifts have accu fed 
"fin their feditiousBook) Proteftants of contention. Religion requireth 
" naked Chrift to be preached, profefTed, glorified \that gravioralcgti, by 
"the faithful Miniftry of feeding Paftors, fhould be furthered, and after 
" that orders tending to edification, and not to deftrucl:ion,ad vanced j and 
"finally the Spoufes friends (hould by all means be cherifhed, favoured, 
"and defended, and not by counterfeit and falfe intruders, condemned 
"and overborn, and defaced. But alas, a man qualified with inward gifts 
" for lack of outward (hews is punifhed, and a man only outwardly confor- 
mable and inwardly clean unfurnifhed, is let alone, yea exalted: The 
" painful Preacher for his labour is beaten, the unpreaching Prelate offend- 
" ing in the greater, is (hotfree*, the learned man without hiscapisafflift- 
"ed, the capped man without learning is not touched : Is not this direct 
"Iy to break Gods laws ? Is not this the Pharifes va f Is not this to wafii 
" the outfide of the Cup, and leave the inner part unclean fed ? Is not this to 
" prefer Mint and Annis to faith aud judgment and mercy ? Mans tradition 
" before the-ordinance of God ? Is not this in the School of Chrift, and in 
" the method of the Gofpel a plain diforder ? hath not this prepofterous 
" order a woe f That the Catechifm fhould be read is the word of God, 
1( it is the order of the Church, to preach is a neceflary point of aPrieft, to 
" make quarterly Sermons is law, to fee poor men of the poor mens box rc- 
cc lieved, Vagabonds punifhed, Parifhes communicate, Rood lofts puD'd 
"down, Monuments ofSuperftition defaced,Service done and heard,is Scri- 
" pture, is Statute - 7 that the Oath to the C^ Majefty should be offered and 

I taken, 



C 5 8] 

<£ taken,is required as well by ordinance of God as of man. Thefe are plain 
"matters, necefTary, Chriftian, and profitable.To wear a Surplice, aCoap, 
" or a corner'd Cap is (as you take it J an accidental thing, a device only 
u of man,and as we fay a doubt or queftion in divinity. Sith now thefe fub- 
"ftantial points are in all places of this Realm almoft negle&ed, the offen- 
" der either nothing or little rebuked, and fith the tranfgreiTors have no 
/'colour of confcience,it is fin and frame to proceed againft usfirft, having 
<c alio reafonable defence of our doings: Charity my Lords,would firft have 
ce taught us,Equity would firft have fpared us,brotherlinefs would have war- 
<c ned us, pity would have pardoned us, if we had been found trefpatfers. 
£c God is my witncfs,who is the beholder of all faith, 1 think of your Lord- 
"fhips honourably ,efteeming you as brethren,reverencingyou asLordsand 
c< Mailers of the Congregation : alas why have not you fome good opinion 
iC of us? why do you truft known Adverfaries and miftruft your Brethren ? 
ct We confefs one faith of Jefus, we preach one dodrine,we acknowledg one 
ct Ruler upon earth,in all things (laving in this) we are of your judgment, 
"(hall webe ufed thus for aSurpIioe. ? (hall brethren perfecute brethren 
<c for a forked Cap,devifed fingularity of him that is our enemy ? Now (hall 
iC we fight for the Popes coat^his head and body being banifhed ? (hall the 
"controverfie fo fall out inconclufion, that for Jack of neceflary furniture 
ct (as it is efteemedj labourers (hall lack wages ? Churches preaching ? fhall 
<( we not teach ? (hall we not exercife our Talents as God hath commanded 
ci uSjbecaufe we will not wear that which our jenemies have defired,and that 
cl by the appointment of Friends.Oh that ever I law this day that our Adver- 
* iaries mould laugh to fee brethren fall together by the ears:Oh that Ephra- 
u im mould thus eat up Mamffcs, Maxaffes Ephraim. My Lords, before this 
iC take place,confider the caule of the Church,the Crefts and triumphs of An- 
fy tichrift,the laughter of Satanjhe forro w and fighs of a number,t he mifery 
V and fequel of the Tragedy.l write with zeal without proof of my matter 
f at this time prefent,but not without knowledg of it,nor without grief of 
" mind: God move your Spirit at this prefent to fight againftOww, Gr- 
" cumcifwnemjmmo Conciftonem.£ga\X\$i Lheram & Leqem^ which principally 
<( is now regarded and rewarded.Speak I humbly befeech you to the Queens 
" Majefty, to the Chancellor, and to Mr. Secretary and the reft, that thofe 
ic proceedings may ileep, that Ezg/W may underftand your zealous mind 
c< toward the worlhipof God,your love toward the poor welwillers, your 
t; hate toward the profefted enemies, your unity in true conformity, the o- 
u ther neither be needful now,neit her exacted in any good age : So (hall the 
" little Flock be bound to you, fofliall the great Shepherd be good to you. 

Chap 



[*?] 



An Answer to the falfe Accusati- 
ons and Reasonings of the Dr/s 
Second Part. 



HEre the Dr. begins with the defcription of their principles 
whom he accufeth (lam one of them:) And the firft fort are 
thofe ["that hold partial and occafional Communion with 
" our Churches to be lawful, but not total and conftant, ] viz. 
'- [at fome times to be prefent,and in fome part of our worfliip, and on 
" particular occafion to partake of fome ads of Communion with us*, but 
€t they apprehend greater purity and edification in ieparate Congregati- 
u ons, and when they are to choofe they think themfelves bound to choofe 
"thefe, though at certain feafonsthey may think it lawful to fubmic to 
u occafional Communion with our Church. ] The fecond fort are " Such 
u as hold any Communion with our Church unlawful ; And he pretends to 
"proceed with all poffibleclearnefs] 

Anfx>Q, I am forry if more clearnefs and truth is become impofflble to him. 
He taketh not me to be one of the fecond fort,and therefore defcribeth me 
as of the firft : Its no prefumption to fay that I know my own mind and 
practice better than he doth, though he would feem to know the old Noa- 
conformifts minds better than they did themfelves. 

Sett. 2. The matter of fact muft firft be notified: i. I ever diftinguifii- 
ed the National, Diocefan, Parochial, and Segregate Churches : And the 
National as fuppofed organized, or an Ecclefiaftically political Society, 
from the National as a Chriftian Kingdom, and as an agreeing Jffociationo? 
Churches, without any Governor of the whole {Single or Ariftocratical. ) 
And I diftinguifted Diocefans that are as Arch-Bifhops over lower Bifhops, 
and thofe that are like ours, infima jpeciei : andIdiftingui(hedP*r//7jCW^- 
e s that have true Taftors, from thofe that have none but uncapable men, 
through infufficiency , herefie, malignity, or as ufurpers are not truly 
called. 

2. Accordingly I concluded, i. That the Pari(h Churches in England 
that have true Paftors, are true political governed Churches. 2. That 
though fome would make them none, by denying to the Paftors an eflen- 

1 2 tia| 



03 

tial part of thwr office, and make the Bifhop the fole Pallor, and the reft 
but his Curates, and the Parilhes no Churches as having no Bifhop, but to 
be only asChappels, part of the loweft governed Church (Diocefan) and 
fo give up the caufe to the Brownifts called Separatifts \ yet truly fuch Pa- 
rilhes are true political Churches, becaufe the ordainer being but the in- 
vefting Mnifter, the office is not eflentiated as he willeth or faith, but as God 
the Inftituter willeth and faith. As the power of the Hujband over the Wife 
is not what pleafe thePrieft that marry eth them, but what pleafeth God 
who giveth it by his Law; and as the Lord Mayor's power is not what 
pleafe the Recorder, or he that giveth him his Oath or Infignia, but what 
the Kings Charter giveth} and the Kings power is not what he will that 
Crowneth him and giveth him his Oath, but what he hath right to by the 
conftitution of the Kingdom •, fo that the truth of the Parifh Churches is 
foundly maintained by the Nonconform ifts, and overthrown by many of 
the Diocefans : But if the Parilh Minifter himielf confent not to the eflen- 
tials of his own office, hisMiniftrymay be valid to others while he is in the 
place, but he is, himfelf, no true Paftor. 

3. All Parilhes are no true governed Churches, whofe Minifters want 
any thing eflential to a Paftor, nor muft be owned as fuch if known. 

4. But for the peoples fake they are true Churches, ftcnndum quid, or 
equivocally as a company of Chriftians may be fo called that have no Pa- 
llor, and as fuch may be fo far communicated with. 

5. I never fpake againft a Diocelan or Arch- Bifhop, that hath Parifh 
Churches, and true Pallors or Bifhops under him, andtaketh on him no 
more than the Apoftles, did, excepting their work, properly Apoftolical, 
viz.. by the Word and not the Sword, to overfee and inftrud inferior 
Pallors. 

6. When the Diocefans put down all lower Churches and true Pallors, 
I own not that doing,nor them in that form •, but I feparate from them no 
further than they do from Chrift. 

7. When they are but as good Arch-Bifhops taking care of many 
Churches, whether their Diocefs (hall be called a Church as fuch, is but lis 
de nomine. 1 find not that any Apoftle as fuch, was the conftitutive Head 
of a Diocefan or Provincial Church, or made any fuch, above particular 
Churches : Nor do 1 find in the New Teftament any political Church form,-, 
butthellniverfal headed by Chrift, and particular ones governed by Pa- 
ilors.The General is the conftitutive Head of his Army, and the Colonel 
of his Regiment, and the Captain of his Troop, as diftincl; fubordinate 
Bodies*, but the Major General, General of the Ordnance, Qnartermafter 
General,^, may beonly[under-Officersto the whole, and the nobleft in- 
tegral 



E*3 

tegral parts, but as fuch no conftitutive Head of any Body of Men what- 
ever: So that General Paftors prove no fuperior proper Chnrch. But be- 
caufe it was lawful in prudence for the Apoftles to have taken feveral Pro- 
vinces, limited feverally to each, fo may men now j and if any call fuch 
Churches, I ftrive not, fo the matter be agreed on. 

8. I ever owned a Chriftian Kingdom, and the agreeing AfTociation of as 
many Churches as can for mutual help and concord,and the King to be their 
Governor by the Sword; And if any will call a Kingdom a Church, or an 
Afibciation that hath no conftitutive Government, a Church •, as if he cal- 
led a Diet or AiTembly of many Kings or Princes, a Kingdom or Republick, 
let him enjoy his Equivocation, fo we underftand each other. 

9. According to thefe Principles I own my lelf a Member of the univer- 
fal Church,of the Chnrch of England, and of the Pari(h or particular Church 
where for the time I am called to be •, that is, as they are. But I think I may 
remove from Parifh to Parifh as I have caufe, as a dweller or a lodger may *, 
and I take not all the Parifh to be the Church, and take Parifh bounds to 
be no Divine lnftitution,but a humane mutable point of order, convenient 
when by accident it croffeth not the end,nor doth more harm than good. 

to. 1 think if any Nobleman in London confine his ordinary communion 
to a juft alTembly in his~happel, or any that have a Minifter utterly un- 
fuitable to their needs, do ufually hold communion in the next Parifh 
Church for better, he is thereby neither §eparatift nor Sinner. 

1 1. According to all this, when I was filenced I ordinarily heard Dr. 
Wilkins and Dr. Itllotfon-, and communicated in feveral places as I had belt 
opportunity •, and quickly going to Aclon, I there conftantly morning and 
evening joyned at Common prayer and Sermon, communicating in the Sa- 
crament where I had belt opportunity, (being loth for the Parfon and Cu- 
rates fike, to tell you why it was not there,) once with Dr. Morton and of- 
ten with Nonconf ormifts. The Plague driving me to Hambden, I conftant- 
ly there joyned in all the publick Worfhip and Sacrament: Returning to 
Allon, Ididasbefore,andfometimerepeatedDeanK/d"t^'sSermon, till he 
got me fent to Gaol for teaching fome willing ignorant people between 
the Church meetings in my houfe : Thence going to 'totteridge, I many 
years conftantly twice a day joyned in the publick worfhip, and took the 
Sacrament when adminiftred as Mr. Parr* will teftifie. Thence removing • 
to London^ and licenfed by the King to preach, I forbare fome time, and af- 
ter chofe only the Market houfe at St. Jameses, openly declaring that we 
met not asfeparating from the publick Churches, but for theneed of mul- 
titudes that went to no Church for want of room. Since then I have ma- 
ny years joyned in all the publick worftiip, Word, Prayer, and Sacraments, 

with 



with the Parifh Church, when able,, fince that I alfo fometime joyn with 
Nbnconformifts,and preach my felf Afternoons, and on Thursdays in the 
Nonconforming Chappels, being not allowed to do it otherwife. In the 
Country in Summer, I have far off got into fome Parilh Churches for a day, 
and tryed neer London^ but could not have content, though I have Bifhop 
Sheldon's Licenfe for that Diocefs, I think not yet invalidated. This is 
the matter of faft. 

Now Reader, Qn. i . Doth the tenth part of thofe counted of this Pa- 
rifh Church, hear and communicate fo oft as I do. 

Q^i. If not, what makes them and not me to be of that Church? 

Q^ 3 . What is the conftancy that this Dr .maketh neceflary to a member ? 

^4. What are the parts of their worfhip which he faith 1 joyn not in. ? 
Hath he named any ? 

^5. Is this only occafional joyning ? 

Sett. 3. I do maintain that 1. When, confideratvs confiderandis,we may 
choofe the pureft Churches and mofi edifying Mmifiry^ it is a duty fo to do. 
And one of his anfwers (the lietlor, &c.) hath in the Epiftle cited his own 
words, not out of the retraced henkon, but his late Book againfl: Popery, 
exprefly threatning us with damnation if we do not. To which I find no 
excufe made by him, yea the Papift adverfary grants the fame. 

2. I do maintain againfl: thofe that feparate from all Churches which 
they dare not be ftated members Of, that its lawful to communicate occafi- 
onally, where we may not do it ftatedly : But is this to deny all fave occa- 
fional communion with all their Churches ? 

3. Ioften fay that there is fo great difference of Parifh Minifters, and of 
Perlbns cafes and opportunities, and Relations, (as Wives, Children, Ser- 
vants, under Parents, &c. of divers commands, &c.) that to be conftant 
Communicants in their Parifh Church, is to fome a duty, to fome a fin, and 
fo is occafional communion. 

Sell. 4. As to the fecond fort, that hold allcommunion with them unlawful. 
1. I leave them to plead their own caufe, and I meddle only with my own 
part. 2. But I mull fay that if they miftake, thofe that wilfully give them 
theoccafion are unfit reprovers of them : And if men for worldly ends or 
by error, will corrupt and defile a Church to the utmoft that is confident 
with lawful Communion (or neer it) they may make the queftion whether 
their Communion he lawful,too hard for underftandings.Every one cannot tell 
whether one in a fwoon be alive or dead, and fome may bury him too Jiaftily. 

Stretch not my fimilitude beyond my meaning , If a Gentleman of the 
game mould by wilful fin, get the Lues Venerea^ and the cafe.be difputed 
whether his wife may feparate from him, or if he beat her once- a week, if 

(he 



[<s?3 



fhe will not daily eat that which makes her grievous fick, and he doth it to 
exercife his Authority, another may better plead againfl: her departure 
than he : If it be a fault in her fo to fave her felf, what is it in him to de- 
flroy or abufe her? 

If we be forbidden to take poyfon, and one will caufelefly command us 
to take a doubtful thing, as Nightlhade, Hemlock, Auripgmentwn, &c. 
and then condemn us asdifobedient for refufing, he is the unfitted perfbn 
to condemn us. If it be lawful to avoid a houfe that hath the Plague, a 
man is excufable that miftakes the fpotted Fever for it. 

Were your Congregations but full of perfons that had the fcabs of the 
fmall Pox not dryed away, and one went to a founder Congregation for 
fear of infection, not at all condemning you, he might be born with. If 
in the beginning of Queen Elizabeths Reign, when abundance of Papift 
Priefts ftaid in the Churches for their Benefices, a man had quietly gone 
from them to the Nonconform ifts, I could not blame him •, though he had 
not been fure that they were not changed. 

And I dill fay that if fuch erre by too much care to avoid fin and fave 
their fouls, i. It isa far greater error to give them the occafion. 2. And 
in fuch as you to fay, that therefore they mull be fo far forfaken, as that 
none may preach to them. If I may preach to no erring people, 1 . 1 mull 
preach to none. 2. Or be no Phyfician to any that are fick. 

And I mud fay, that though I found no call to gather any together as 
a Church, and give them the Sacrament-, I cannot fay that no other had 
fuch, unlefsl had heard them all fpeak for themfelves : yea I fee fuch no- 
torious need in many places, that 1 dar^ not blame them. 

Sett. 5. And now Reader, Qh. whether the Dr. hath truly dated the 
cafe between him and me \ and whether you can expect truth and edifica- 
tion in his handling of a falfe-flated cafe. 

Thcfe are the queflions which, as my accufer, (in his Book) he fhould 
have handled, had truth been his defign. 1. tl Whether for one that 
"holdeth fo much Communion with their Churches as I have done, and 
"here defer ibe , it be finful feparation to Preach in and Communicate 
"with the Afiemblies of Nonconforming, or mixt ones, as I have done. ? 
Cl 2. Whether to deny this to be finful Separation (or Separation as com- 
"mor.ly taken for Schifm) be di (ingenious, and worfe than theirs that open- 
a ly renounce their Communion. 

Sett. 6. Three things he faith, p. 94. we cannot deny, 1. That there 
is no reafon of Separation becanfe of the Doctrine of their Church. 

Anfv9. 1. We diflinguifn of Separation : There is no reafon to lepa- 
rate from you as no Church, or further than we do } there is reafon to 

deny 



deny our content, i .To your forefaid Do&rine of all baptized dying'Infants 
undoubted falvation, not excepting thofe of Atheifts and Infidels. 2.T0 
your included Do&rine implyed in-your Impofitions, viz." That if a man 
* c have unlawfully made a Vow and Oath to endeavour in his Place and Cal- 
ling to reform fome corruptions in Church-Government, yea ortore- 
li pent of his fin and oppofe Popery, Prophanenefs, and Schifm; there is 
"no obligation on him from that Oath and Vow to do it. Thefe and 
fuch other Do&rines we feparate from, fo far as to reject them. 

Sett. 7. His fecond fuppofed Conceflion is, Q That there is no other reafott 
of Separation becaufe of the terms of our Communion, than what was from the be- 
ginning of the Reformation. 

Anfw. 1 . There are in my judgment no common reafons for going 
further from you than we do, nor to juftifie that which is commonly 
known by the name of Separation. But there are many and great reafons 
to juftifie ourmeafure of difTent and miniftration •, and to fay that [_we 
grant there are no more reafons now than were then, ] is too bold an untruth. 
There is more reafon , 1. From the quality of the things impofed. 
2. From the defignsand drift of the Impofition. 3. From the effects. 
4. From the aggravation of Conformity as in the Church that we muft 
communicate with. 5. From the things which give us a fuller caufe for 
our Preaching and AfTemblies. viz.. 1. The late general contrary Church 
State and Engagement to it. 2. The Plague. 3. The burning of the 
Churches. 4. The Kings Licenfe and Clemency. 5. The number and 
quality of them that feek our helps. Of thefe -briefly in order. 
1 . As to the things impofed now which were not then. 

1. The VeftryAdt was not then made, by which fo confiderable a part 
of your Parifh Churches as the Veftries, are to renounce all obligations to 
endeavour any alteration of the Government of the Church, from the 
Oath and Vow called the Covenant : So that all Reformation of Church 
Government as fo fworn, was thus renounced by them who in a fort re* 
prefent the Parifh Church. 

2. The Ad of Uniformity had not then impofed the fame declarative 
Renunciation of all fuch obligation on all the Minifters and Schoolmafters 
in England, as it now doth. 

3. The Corporation A& was not then in being, which conftituteth all 
the Officers in power in all Cities and Corporations, of fuch only as de- 
clare, £ that there is no obligation from the [aid Oath at all, ]■ not excepting 
fo much as the fworn duties of oppofing Popery , Prophanenefs, and 
Schifm, to repent of fin and amend our lives. And Iffwearing and vowing a* 

gainji Schifm, no whit bind men (if the Oath were but unlawfully impo- 
fed, 



C«5] 



fed, why (hould the'Dr. make fo great a matter of it, and think that his 
reafonings (hould make men afraid of Gods ferv ice, if he will but call it 
Schifm. 

4. None of thefe Acts then required men to profefs and fubfcribe, 
that there is from that Vow or Oath no fuch Obligation on any other 
perfon ; and (b to become Vouchers for the Souls and Confciences of 
many hundred thouiands whom we never faw \ even thofe Parliament 
men that were not forced to it, but impofed it on others, when we know 
not in what fenfe they took it. 

5. The Re-ordination of Minifters ordained by Presbyteries was not 
then required, and made a neceffary condition of their Ministration and 
Church Relation, (even by them that confefs Re-ordination unlawful, 
and therefore plainly intimate the nullity of the firft.) 

6. The Aft of Uniformity was not then made, which requireth all 
Minifters publickJy to declare their Affent and Confent to all things contain- 
ed in, and prefer ibed by the Liturgy, Book^of Ordination, (though part of 
this was in a Canon.) 

7. The falfe Rule for finding Eafler-day was not then to be aflented 
and confented to , as a condition of the Miniftry. 

8. Nor the new Doctrine or Article of Faith, [of the undoubted cer- 
tainty by Gods word, that baptized dying Infants are faved y ~] (without any 
exception of the children of Atheifts, &c.) For the old words at Confir- 
mation fas many Drs. of the Church have (hewed) only meant that no- 
thing elfe was neceflary on the Churches part , that is , not Confir- 
mation. 

9. The word ZPaftor~\ as applyed to Parilh Minifters diftinft from 
Curates, was not then blotted out of moft places in the Liturgy ; nor 
the twentieth of Acts, as applied to Presbyters, left out, (Take heed to 
your fclves and the Flock, &c.) in plain defign to alter the Office and Pa- 
rifh Churches. 

10. The Oxford Oath was not then impofed, to banifh Minifters above 
five miles from all Cities, and Corporations, and Places, where they had 
of late years preached ; fo that their old Flock or Friends (yea, Wives 
and Children that could not follow them) might not fo much as fee or 
hear fuch Minifters in their Families, or familiar converfe that would have 
come to the publick Churches : And all Nonconforming Minifters that 
took not the Oath, were thereby forbidden to come to the Parifh Church- 
es in all Cities, Corporations, or Places aforefaid, though their example 
might have drawn many (as mine did where I wasj 

K 11. Minifters 



1661 



1 1. Minifters and Corporations and Veftries, were not then bound to 
fwear or fublcribe, that it is unlawful on any pretence whatsoever to rejifi any 
commijjioned by the King \ when the Keeper of his Seal may fign Commiffions 
to feize on the KingsForts , Garrifons, Navies, and Treafuries, to de- 
liver up the Kingdoms to Foreigners, to deftroy Parliaments, Cities, and 
Laws : I am fore Hooker , BUfon, or Arch-Bilhop Abbot, fubfcribed not 
this , nor were fuch Conformifts. Are all thefe no difference of 
cafe ? 

Sett. 8. There is 2. a great difference in the drift and tendency of 
the Impofltions. They were at firfl: to quiet a Popifh Nation, while the 
true Doctrine took poffeifion and rooting , and to avoid the cavils of 
thofe Papifts that charged the Reformers with forfaking all the Church : 
But what they have been ufed for thefe laft forty or fifty years, I leave 
the Reader to" judge. 

1. By the Complaints of all the Parliaments, fincethen, faveone. 

2. By theHiftory of Arch-Bilhop L^'sTryal. 

3. By Dr. Heylin's Hiftory of his Life. 

4. By the writings of Divines, f\\ch as Mr. Thomdifa Dr. Parker, Dr. 
Tierce^ Arch-Biihop Bromhall, and many more fuch •, and by the Papifts 
hiftorical collection out of fuch. 

See Dr. Heylirfs defcription of the Reconciling Plot, Anno 1639. 

Arch Bifbop Bromhalfokh, Vindicat. p. ip. &c. " [ Whereas Mr. Baxter 
"doth accufe GrotillS as aPapifi,lthtvk he doth him wrong, nay I am confident 

Cc he doth him wrong And 1 have read all that he aliedgeth to prove it,but 

"without any conviction or alteration in my judgment. 1 will endea- 

tl vour to give fome further light what was the Religion of Grotim .• He 
t: was in affection a friend, and in defire a true Son of the Church (a) of 
"England: And on his Deathbed recommended that Church, as it was le- 
i( gaily eftablifhed to his Wife, and fuch other of his Family as were then 
" about him, obliging them by his Authority to adhere firmly to it. 

The faidBifhop (though noPapift) faith, pag. 81. "(p]t\ know n ° 
u members of the Greek Church,who give them (the Papifts) either more 
"orlefsthan I do : (Compare this with the Council at Florence, and the 
Patriarch Jeremiah's Writings, and the prefent fence of the Greek 



(a) 7 he new Church ftna Btjhop Laud's change, (b; Note that the Bifhops Boo^ as againfl 
me, runs upon a mere fitfion, p. 76. that I traduce him as a Fattor for Popery, when J had 
not a word to that purpofe ; yea exprejly excepted him by name, though I argued again ft his too. 
mr approach. tt _ f 

n "Church 



[*7] 



"Church, and we may know his mind : ) But my ground is not the au- 
" thority of the Greek Church,but the authority of the Primitive Fathers, 
"and General Councils, which are the representative Body of the Uni- 
tf verfal Church, (c) P. 82. [ To wave their laft four hundred years 
"determinations, is implicitly to renounce all the neceflary caufes of 
" this great Schifm. (d) And to reft fatisfied with their old Patriarchal 
" power and dignity, and Primacy of Order, (which is another part of 
"my Proportion) is to quit the modern Papacy, name and thing, (e) 

"Pag. 84, 85. [ That Chriftians may joyn together in the fame pub- 

"lick devotions and fervice of ChrihV 1. If the Biihop of Rome 

" were reduced from the Pniverfality of Soveraign Jurifdictioii, jure di- 
" ww, to his frincipinm mtttatu, and his Court regulated by the Canons 
"of the Fathers, which was the fence of the Councils otGmftance and 
" Bafd, andisdefired by many Roman Catholicks, as well as we. '2. If 
"the Creed were reduced to what they were in the time of the four firft 
** General Councils, with only neceflary explications, and thofe made 
"by the Authority of a General Council. 3. And fome things whence 

"offences have been given or taken,be put out of the Divine Offices 

"Whether Chriftians ought not to live in holy Communion, and come 
"to the fame publick worfhip of God, free from all fchifmaticai fepa- 
" rations, (f) 

"Pag. 93. 1. That St. Ptter had a fixed Chair atAntioch, and after at 

"&?we,isatruth. 2. That St. Peter had a Primacy of Order among 

"the Apoftles, is the unanimous voice of the Primitive Church r 

"3. Some Fathers and Schoolmen who were no fworn Vaffais to the Roman 
"Bifhop, do affirm that this Primacy of Order is fixed to the Chair of 
u St. Peter. 

"P. 97. Though the Bifliop of Rome had fuch a Primacy of Order by 
"Divine Right or Humane, it would not prejudice us at all, nor is worth 
u the contending about. But, 1- It is not by Divine Right in foro cxteriorc. 
" 2. Norelfewhere (interiore) but executive according to the Canons. (g) 



<c 



(c) No fuch thing, but of the Churches within the Empire then, (d) was there no neceffarj 
cauG till after, An. 1 200 ? (e) So then theft Prottftant Bifhops give the Pope Patriarchal Pow- 
er, and Primacy of Order, and as much as the Greeks : But 1. They had by Councils 0] old no Pa- 
triarchal Power over othtr Kjngdoms out of the Empire, z. Obedience to the Pope as a Patriarchy 
is againft the Oath of Supremacy, and on the matter little difftrttb our caje from obeying him as 
Pope. (() So that this Arcb-Btfhop alfo was fet on thepiow dtjign ofjoyning with thtPapifts on 
thefe terms, and may not we have leave to worjhip God on better terms ? (gj That is, 1. The 
Pope is not to govern us arbitrarily, but by Canons, (uhicb what they art is hardly known.) 
2. And all will be Schifmatic^s, tkatfo obey him not. 

K 2 Whereas 



on 

Whereas I faid that Proteftants that confent not to the Popes Patriar- 
chal Power over us in the Weft, will fall under the reproach of Schifm-, he 
faith, p. 104. &c. [Muft a man quit his juft right be^ufefomediflike it <* 
Their diflike is but fcandai taken, but the quitting of that whkh is right 
for their fatisfaction, fhould be fcandai given, (h) If they be forced to 
fall under the reproach of Schifmaticks, it isby their own wilful humors, 
or erroneous Confcience , other force there is none. 2. Whether is the 
worfe and more dangerous condition, to fall under the reproach of Schifm, 
or to fall into Schifm it felf ? Whofoever {hall oppofe the juft power of a 
lawful Patriarch lawfully proceeding, is a material Schifmatick at leaft.— 
P. 107. It's unfound arguing to deny a man his juft right for fear left he 
may abufe it, as a Patriarchal Power was the Bifhop of Rome's juft right. 
They who made the Bifhop of Rome a Patriarch were the Primitive Fathers, 
not excluding the Apoftles and Chriftian Emperors and Oecumenical Coun- 
cils: what Laws they made in this cafe we are bound to obey for Confci- 
ence fake, till lawfully repealed by vertueoftheLaw of Chrift. (i) 

Much more he hath to this purpofe, and />. 112. for uniting the Church 
Catholickon humane terms, and p. 117. againft the peoples liberty of 
reading and interpreting Scripture*, and after at large that concord muft 
be on humane terms,/>.i22. [Grotim judgment was, and mine is moderate,"] 
but had not this man been fo owned by many now, I had not cited fo much 
of his. And for Grotiw, I have over and over cited his own words, and 
fliall not now repeat them : And was this the drift of Conformity of old ? 

3. Sell. 9. Another difference is in the effects-; for with us, things not 
univerfally or abiblutely determined by God, are to be ufed or refufed as 
they do more good or hurt- 1. Then open Preaching and gathering Af- 
fembliesby Nonconformifts, would have greatly offended the Prince; 
but our King at B--eda> and in h s three firft Declarations, and by his Li- 
cenfes, and connivence, fhewed fuch wifdom and clemency, as intimated 



(h) 1. thus for union with Rome, all Protectants mutt pafs for felf made Schifmaticks, that 
cannot obey the Pope as Patriarch : And doth this tend indeed to Concord ? It would open Prote- 
ctants eyes, did I but tell you all that is in the Canons, which the Pope as our Patriarch muft rule 
us by, as theft Doclors do defire. (0 i- if this Doftrine be true, no wonder th it Mr. Thomd'ikc 
thought we could not juft i fie our Reformation, till ne alter the Oath of Supremacy , then we are 
bound in confcience to a Foreign Jurifdiclion. 1. lhavi fully proved many great errors and fins 
to be decreed by many of the Councils, by which the Pope, as Patriarchy muft rule m all. $. is it 
any eafier to do evil In obedience to a Patriarch than a Pope ? 4. In my I aft Boo^ againft W. John- 
ion, alias Tenet, ihavefdiy confuted alt that he faith of the universality of Councils, and the. 
Patriarchs power over the Abaffines, and others without the Ewpre, and fhewed they were then 
aU but in one Empire^ as the Arth-Bifbop of Canterbury is in England. 

left 



lefs difpleafure at our liberty. 2. It would have deprived mod of the Non- 
conforming s f their hopes of publick liberty in the Pai i(h C hurches, whic h 
molt of them enjoyed ; but we had neither poflefTion nor expectation of 
fuch a thinge 3. It would have hindred and hazarded the progrefs of the 
Reformation, but our preaching hath done more to flop the progrefs of 
the Syncretifm, or of Popery : Others know this whatever you frivoloully 
fay againft it. 4. Few of the mod: ignorant that needed them would then 
have left the Pariih Churches, to hear Nonconform ills in private-, but now 
many will come to us that cannot get in to the Paridi Churches: Other dif- 
ferent effects may be named. 

Sett. 10. 4. And though Iaccufe you not, you that unjuftly (aid before 
that I made you feem a company of perjured Villains^ feems to think your fclf 
that the fore alledged caufes make many of the people think little better of 
fome ; and a Church thought to confift of fiich Pallors and Veftries, &c. 
(eflential parts) differ from thofe that do not. 2. And the multitude of 
Atheifts and filthy livers, and thethoufandsof Noncommunicants who are 
ftill taken for real members of your Churches, have now (food out againft 
fo long means and patience, that the reafons of longer waiting for Re for- 
rration, much differs from theirs in the beginning. 3. The Canon at firft 
did not ipfo facto, excommunicate all that do but profefs themfelves Non- 
conformifts, as fince it did. 4. The Biihops and their Canoneers had not 
then call out :oco, norneer fo many Preachers as now, and lb did not fo 
much tempt the people to flee from them as perfecutors, thorns, thiftle?, 
or wolves. 5. When one Bifhop call any out, fome other ufually would en- 
dure them, but now it was not 16. 6. The people faw daily, that you bore 
with thofe as no Schiimaticks, that never communicated nor ufed to hear 
you, even the greater half of many Parilhes, and took them for Church 
members as is faid \ and therefore they had reafon to hope that they that 
communicated fomewhere with Protectants efpecially that communicated 
alfo with your own Churches, were as good Members, and by good Pa- 
llors, would be as well endured. 

Sett. 1 1. 5-LaftIy, The forenamed caufes of our preaching much differ. 
1 . We faw the Kingdom (though under ufurpers; engaged by Vow, Pra- 
ctice, and about fixteen years poflellion and cuftom, to another way ; and 
who could expect that a Law fhould prefently change them all, and allure 
them of abfoLtion. 2. They that conformed were the more averfe, to fee 
about fix thoufand Minifters that had gone the other way, fo fuddenly 
changers to declare afTent and confent to a Book which they never faw. 3 . 
The cafeof thePlague,the burning of the Churches,theKingsLicenfes,c>c. 
I named before, which verily made a great difference. 4. And the numbers 

that 



Oo] 

that call to us for help makes a great difference , when then they that 
needed them moft,did not defire it.Thefe are fome differences. 

Sett. 12. p. 95- He faith, There is no reafon of feparation becaufe of the do- 
Urine of our Church, ~] Anfw- But now you have corrupted it, in the Ar- 
ticle of Infants undoubted falvation before defcribed, (and before by the 
doftrines about Prelacy, Godfathers power and duty, Impofitions, &c. 
imply ed in your practical Canons J there is great caufe of Nonconformity. 

» P. p6. Repeatetb that great miftake, that [ there are no alterations, in 
our own judgment, which make the terms of Communion harder than before."} 
Anfvt. What hope then of being underltood . ? how far is this from truth ? 
The terms are far harder to Minifters ? and to the people they are eafier 
in fome things (as amending fome tranflations, &c.) but it is not to them 
a fmall matter to make fuch a change of their Pallors, as in too many Pantil- 
es is made. TheBilhoppromifed them at Kiderminfter > when he forbad 
me to preach, that they fhould be no lofers by the change : They faid (and 
I had great reafon to believe them) that the Succeflbr knew fo little of the 
fence of the Creed, and preach'd fo rarely (four times a year) lam loth 
to tell you how, that they durft not be guilty of encouraging him in un- 
dertaking the charge of Souls, nor durft take him for their Paftor : And 
t he gr eat increafe of buildings in London, fliuts thou fands now out of fuch 
Pariih Churches, who could have got in heretofore , and fome more dif- 
ferences are before implyed. p. 97. As other Churches own your Church- 
es, fo do we, though not your impofed fins. 

Sett. 1 3 . p. I was in hope to have met with fome anfwer to my impor- 
tunate QueftionJ^JFte would yon have the many fcore thoufandt do, that cannot 
come withm your Churches to heat ? ] But no importunity will prevail for fb 
fmall a matter with inexorable men. But he faith, 1. that \_this U but a pre 
fence. ] 2. And that C no man denyeth that more places are de fir able, &c. ] Anf. 
1 . It is me that he is now accufing ! why doth he barely fay and not prove, 
that it's but a pretence ? Ineverfetup a Meeting place, but in St. Mar- 
tins Parilh, where are faid to be forty thoufand more than can come with- 
in the Church : And when they would not fuffer me to ufe it, I gladly left 
it to the ufe of the Parifh Minifter. 1 preach now twice a week elfewhere, 
but both the places are in Neighbourhoods, where many thoufands cannot 
hear in the Parilh Churches. What if other men have other fufficient rea- 
fons (as the utter incapacity of fome Minifters, or the like) doth it follow 
that my own cafe and profeffed reafon is a meer pretence I why then did 
I ufe no publick preaching, while Hived in fuch Villages where the people 
might go to Church > and why did 1 conftantly twice a day lead them thi- 
ther, though fome difliked it ? 2.The queftion is not whether moreChnrch- 



es are deferable ? But where they are not, whether many t houfands mud live 
like Atheifts, without all publick teaching or Divine Worfhip, for fear of 
being called Schifmaticks. Is not this plainly to chufe damnation ? If the 
Gofpel be needlefs, why do we vvifn the Heathens had it? Why fubfcribe 
you againfl mens hopes of being faved in all their feveral Religions ? If 
Church worfhip be needlefs, why is a Clergy to be fo honoured, and main- 
tained at fo dear a rate f Aud why do you make fuch a ftir with Separatifts 
to bring them to your Churches ? Can men, not blinded by intereft, chufe 
but wonder, that fo many thoufands in a Parifh (hould be taken for Church 
Members, and live quietly, that come not to any Church, or never com- 
municate with any, and yet that godly perfons who hear and communicate 
with their old tryed Paftors (yea with fuch as communicate with you ) 
mould be preach'd and written againft as Schifmaticks, and judged to that 
which fome endure. Did this Dr. think that to drop in the cafe of other 
men, when he was at a lofs, would make good his charge againft me, and 
fuch as I : Mr. Tombes and Mr. Williams preached other doctrine ; do I do 
fo, and have you proved it f 

But feeing he wiil needs bring the cafe to Kidermwfier, whether I would 
fuffer Mr. Tombes to gather a Congregation, I muft not balk it \ but advife 
him hereafter to keep himfelf at a greater diftance, and not to put his own 
followers, who are wiHing enough to believe him, upon utter impoflibili- 
ties : He fped better with them when he laid the fcene an hundred years 
backward : or as far offas New England-^t him know then all thefe things in 
confutation of his hiftorical fuppofition. i .That Kidermhfier Parifh hath but 
about three thoufand or four thoufand fouls, and the Church fo fit (with 
five Galleries) that all may hear: But hisParifh isfaid to have twenty thou- 
fand fouls, of which not four thoufand can hear. 2. Aconfiderable part of 
Kiderminfter Parifh, called Ridnd, being at Bcwdly Bridge end, and two miles 
from Kiderminfter , (and fome Villages more J ufually were Mr. Tombes his 
hearers at Bewdley, and I never blamed them. 3. After him, they were 
Hearers and Communicants to his SuccefTor Mr. Oafland, and he took the 
Paftoral care of them fthat defired any •, ) and I was fo far from blaming 
him, that I greatly thanked him, and we w r cre far from difagreeing. 
4. Though Mr. Tombes and I differed in the doctrine of Infant Baptifm, I 
gave him leave ( yea and the Quakers too J in the publick Church many 
hours together, to fay all that they coald for their opinions in the hearing 
of my Auditors, and none of them ever won one of them that I heard of, 
(yet the Dr. fuppofeth fome great danger of their peoples fedndtion, if 
they hear fuch as I that never were accufed of falfe Doctrine. 5. But he hath 
chofen an inftance yet neerer our prefent cafe; Another part of Kider- 

minflrr 



mtifier Parilh is neer three miles off, at a Village called Mitton; where at 
theChappei I found a Curate called Mr. Turner, infamous for drunkennefs, 
fighting, living on unlawful marriage, and for grofs ignorance : (I tryed 
him, and perceived not that he underftood much of the Creed J 1 fent them 
a worthy Preacher once a day firft, and twice after, and declared my utter 
diflent to Mr. Turner's Miniftry •, yet becaufe fome of the Church of Eng- 
land would have him , and he would, againft my will, read the Common 
Prayer to them once a day, I hindred them not from their choice, but they 
went on. 6. And the fequeftred Vicar in the Town (Mr. Dance) was ge- 
nerally taken to be as ignorant as he, fo that when once a quarter he went 
into the Pulpit, his own Wife, though of the Church of England, would 
for (hame go out of Church: Yet did I never forbid him to preach, and he 
oft read the Common Prayer at Sir Ralph Clares, and I fuppofe gave them 
the Sacrament. 7. I had opportunity then to have hindred all this if I 
would have ufed Magiftrates : They were both by Proclamation to remove 
two miles oft but neither of them once removed fo much as out of their 
houfes, nor did I defire it •, but we are by law driven five miles off. 8. Mr. 
Vance had forty pounds a year allowed him, and Mr. Turner never had a 
groat of his ancient Salary diminilhed, when another was put in, but the 
other paid otherwife -, but we ask you nothing for aflifting you. 9. 1 had 
never one hundred pounds to my felf, and therefore could maintain no 
more help •, (two Affiftants I had; but have you no more to maintain At 
fiftants? Now judge how well your hiftoricallnftances ferve your turn* 

And befides the number of Souls, very many Parifhes are fa wide, that 
diftance forbiddeth many to come to the publick Parilh Churches : Some 
Villages are five miles, fome four, and many three miles off-, and how can 
Families, efpecially Women, Children, and the aged, and efpecially in 
winter, go fo far twice for oncej a day : And muft all thefe forbear to 
hear, or to worfhip God, for fear of being counted Schifmaticks? 

Becaufe the Dr. appealeth to my felf, I ferioufly profefs that when 1 had 
a Paftoral Charge, (which was but in one placej 1 would have been very 
thankful to any one that differed no more than the Dr. and I do, that 
would have gathered a Congregation of fuch, as for number or diftance 
could not have come into the Parifh Church*, and the cafe of diftance did 
occafion the honeft fcparation aforefaid, though the cafe of numbers did 
not : Yea when hundreds defired Communion according to the Common 
Prayer, I never offered to hinder any of them from taking it where and 
how they would. 

Seel, 14. P. 99. He ftith [This is Mr. B3Xter's own Cafe— when he is 
{inched with the Point of Separation, thm he declares, that his hearers are 

tht 



C733 

defame with ours ; at leafi ten or twenty for one. — // this be true, then what 
fuch mighty help is this to our great Parifoes, what colour or pretence is there 
from the largenefs of them, that he Jhould preach to the very fame men that come 
to our Church. — Then how come they to be lawful when few or none ofthofe many 
thoufands ever come. — to fpeakjojtly this pretence is not becoming Mr. Baxters 
Sincerity. 

u4n[. what hope of Juflicefrom fuch Judges ? Or what hope of profi- 
ting fuch Readers by Difpute, as cannot anfwer fuch as this themfelves. 
When I began to preach at St. James's the neighbours aflured me, that 
many of the hearers had been at no Church of four years ; but they were 
Members of the PariuVChurch, and that fome of them got into the 
Church, but rarely : and fome liked it not fo well as to be forward feek- 
ers. When I was driven thence, I preached a while where MxWadfworth 
was in Southward There were fome people that had adhered to their old 
ejected worthy Paftor,and fome that I knew not. Since then I preach once 
on the Lords day in another mans Pulpit, as near St. James's as I could, 
and the fame perfons that heard me there do (many of them) come hither, 
and fome others: of all whom I know very few, but by report. On 
Thurfdays I preach a Lecture in another mans Pulpit to perfons of whom 
I know not many : but report faith, that fome of them joyn not ordi- 
narily with the Parifh Minifters, and fome do, and moft judge it lawful, 
and fometime, but feldom pradlife it .• And thofe are of two forts : fome 
that prefer the Nonconforming Miniftry, and fome that finding the Pa- 
rifh Churches crowded, and many prefentare out of hearing, do feldom 
go thither, though they are of the Parifh Churches, and diffent not from 
their Miniftry or Worfhip ; fome fay [we have no Seats and cannot ftandQ 
fome fay [we cannot hear the Mnifter : ] fome fay, Thonfands ft ay away that 
can get no room.and will go no whither elfe y and when we can go elfewhere, we wiX 
not crowdinfirft- to kgep them out, thatfo much need Others muft be out if we 
be in. Thefe are your own Church-Members : they hear you fometimes, 
but feldom. Others that hear you conftantly on the Lords days, will 
think that a Sermon on the week days may be needful to them whatever 
you think or fay againft it. And is it mconfiftem with Sincerity here to plead 
the peoples neceffity. It's well that our Sincerity is not to ftand or fall to 
your judgment. Did I fay that my hearers are conftant hearers in your 
Churches * Can you perfwade the World,while you deny not that half or a 
quarter of your own Parifh cannot hear you (much lefs many greater Pa- 
rifhesj that if fome of them do but fometimes crowd in, perhaps once 
in many months or weeks, by coming with the firft, and do but dwell iu 
the Parifh and own you, that they have no need to hear or worfhip God 

L publickly 



C/4] 



publickly all the reft of the year, and to pretend fuch need becometk not 
Sincerity. 

2. And as to thofe that meet in lefler Parifhes, you thought not meet 
to take notice of my anfwer, afligning many Reafons, which I will not re- 
peat, any further than to tell you. i . That many Churches there are un- 
built. 2. Many come from the greater Parilhes to them : and fome have 
other Reafons. 

Sett. 15. P. 102. HQ&ith[Mr.Baxterbathawhole Chapter (Vkap.i^i.) 
tf Reafons againft the Communion of Laymen with our Church."] Anfw. You 
are unhappy in Hiftory, though it be your ftrength. There's not 
a word to prove it unlawful for Laymen to have Communion with your 
Churches, but only the Matter of Fad: named, which is fuppofed to the 
Controverfie-, But it being cunningly worded by you, it may be by [Rea- 
fons againft Communion with our Churches^] you meant but as I did ( Reafons 
for Nonconformity in thofe particular Atts : ) But do you not your felf all-a- 
Jong fuppofe and plead, that though we conform not, yet we fhould 
hold Communion with you. Why call you then the Reafons of Noncon- 
formity, Reafons againft Communion. 

Sett. 16. P. 103. He adds [in the fame Books he faith y it is Schif- 
maticalin a Church to deny Baptifm without the tranfient Sign of the Crojs, 
erforwant of God- father S) &C. or to deny Communion to fuch who fcruple kneel- 
ing. Now if the Church be Schifmatical, then thofe who feperate in thefe things 
are not. 

Anfw. 1. Say yon fo ! Then we are not only quit,- but further quit 
than we can own our felves. I undertake to prove that it may be Schifm 
to feparate from a Church that is guilty of fome Schifmatical Acts and Im- 
pofitions. And it needs no proof, but the plain Hiftory, and their Ac- 
cu&tions of one another ; that there are few, if any Churches on Earth 
that are not guilty of fomewhat that is Schifmatical, in Eaft Weft^North 
or South, in Africk, Afia, Europe or America \ Greeks, Mufcovites^ Jaco- 
bites, Abaflines, Neftorians, Armenians, Georgians, Mengrelians, Cir- 
caffians, Papifts, Lutherans, Calvinifts, Prelaticalls, Presbyterians, In- 
dependants, Anabaptifts, &c. And muft we feparate from them all. 
2. Verily Sir, denying Perfons, Chrifiendom and Church-Communion are 
great things. And if a Crofi and a gefture forbidden by the Ancient Coun- 
cils in Adoration every Lords Day, be now matters fo weighty, as for 
them to deny Chriftendome and Communion,for fhame call them Indifferent 
no more : one would verily think that when you writ your Defence of 
Archbifhop Laud you nad been of another mind,if words are any notifying 
Signs of your mind. 3. Other Paftors may be ufed, in fuch inftances 

without 



without feparating from you, Sir thefe are not impoflibilities to peacea- 
ble men. In both the places where I formerly preached, a publicly Mi- 
nifter and a frivate lovingly joy n as afliftan ts, one doing that part which the 
other cannot. And they all live in peace. 

Seft. * 7. I am next aflaulted Pag. 1 \o< I fay [The Benefit of Chriftian 
Love and Concord may make it be ft, for certain feafons y to joyn even in defective 
Modes of Worftnp, as Chrift did, &C. though the leaft defective muft be chofen 
when no fitch Reafons fw ay the other way.~\ Reader, is not this true ? Will 
not the deny al of this drive us from the Parifh Churches, and from almoft 
all, or require us caufelefly to choofe fins of omiffion. Would you not take 
him for a feparatift that is againft this. But he faith [_Jnd hence we take no- 
tice 1. That no Obligation to the Peace and Vnity of this Church as they arc 
Members of it, doth bring them to this occafional Communion with it\ but a certain 
Romantick. Fancy of Catholick Vnity by which thefe Catholickfientlemen thinly 
themfelves no more obliged to the Communion of this Church, then of the Arme- 
nian or Abiffine Churches : Only it happens that our Church is fo much nearer. 

Anfw. 1. This is not true : For 1. we take this Church to be far left 
corrupt than the Armenian or Abiffme. 2. We have more Obligations to 
it from the civil Magistrates, Laws and Protection, &c. 2. Is nearnefs 
fuch a trifle with you. How much do you differ from Mr. Che ny. Tell us, why 
wefhould be of your Parifh Church rather than of one an hundred miles of£ 
but for nearnefs and Cohabitation •, wby elfe of old had each City its own 
Church ? 3 . If Catholick, Vnity become a Romantick Fancy. Is this the fame 
man that wrote the Defence of Archbifhop Laud, we are not afhamed of 
the title of Catholick. 4. If I name one Obligation to Communion with 
you, is it a learned Note to gather that I deny all other ? 5. When prove 
you that I am only for occafional Communion when I have fo long prattifed 
conftant Communion with you? Thefe are reafons fuitable to your caufe. 

Sell. 1 8. He adds [_As k him what Church he is a Member of: If he anfwer, he 
could have occafional Communion with all tolerable Churches, but waLofixed Mem- 
ber of none, would they (if he were at Jerufalem) take fuch a manfor a Chri- 
ftian ? What ? a Chriftian and a Member of no Church. And I much doubt whe- 
ther they would admit J uch an one to occafional Communion^&c. Anfw. 1 . Won- 
derful ! Who would have thought that this man had been fo much for the 
Principles of Separation (more than the Independants) In his defence of 
Laud he maintaineth that the Power of the Keys it formally in the whole Church , 
and given to Peter as their Reprefentative ( w r hich is not true, for it was given 
only to Paftors as fuch and not to the Laity.) And now he would make 
that man no Chriftian that is no fixed Member of fome particular Church. 
Let us examine whether this be true. 

L 3 Chap." 



CHAP. V L 



Q^ Whether he be no Christian that is not a fixed Member of 

a particular Church * 

Sett. i. TJE that is a true Member of the Univerfal Church, which 
fl is Chrifts Body, is a true Chriftian : But many are 
Members of the Univerfal Church, which are no fixed Members of any 
particular Church. Ergo. 

2. All that are rightfully Baptized are Chriftians, (for it is their Chri- 
fteningj But many rightfully Baptized are no fixed Members of any particular 
Church. Ergo, 

3. He that hath all the Eflentials of Chriftianity is a Chriftian : But 
many that are no fixed Members of a particular Church have all the Effen- 
tials of Chriftianity. Ergo. 

4. Afoniore, They thai; are not fomuch as bound in Duty to be fixed 
Members of a particular Church, though Baptifed, are not unchriften- 
ed for want of fuch Memberfhip. But many Baptized perfon are not fo 
much as bound in Duty to be fixed Members of a particular Church. 
Ergo. Inftances. 

1. The Eunuch baptized in his Travails Atts. 9, was only a Mem- 
ber of the Church Univerfal. 2. Thofethat were converted by Frumen- 
tim and Edefws when there was no particular Church ; And all that are 
firft converted in any Infidel or Heathen Land before any Church be for- 
med. 3. Thofe that by Shipwrack are caft on heathen Countries where 
no Churches are. 4. Travellers that go from Country to Countries (as 
Lythgow did nineteen years, and others many.) And I think he unhap- 
pily named Jerufalem, where Travellers come that are of no fixed Church 
(unlefs he in that alfo be a Superindependant, and think that men may 
be many years Members of a Church many hundred miles off, which they 
have noperfonal communion with./ %. Merchants and Faclors, who are 
called to dwell long among Infidels where are no Churches. 6. Embaf- 
fadors who by their Princes are fent to refide among fuch, much of their 
lives. 7. Wanderers that have no fixed habitations , as many Pedlers 
and other poor wandering Tradefmen, and loofe Beggars that have no 
Dwelling. 8. Thofe thot live among Papifts or any other Chriftians 
whoimpofe fome fin as a condition of communion. 9. Thofe that live 
among fuch Chriftians as have no true Paftors who are conftitutive parts 

* of 



i77l 

Of particular Churches. Some being incapable through infuffidency,fon:c 
by Herefie and ibme for want of a true Call : Such as by Mr Dodwelh 
Doctrine moft of the Chriftian World are, for want of uninterrupted 
rrue Epifcopal Ordination, i o. Thofe who are fubjects to fuch as per- 
mit them not to be fixed Members.- As Wives hindred by Husbands, 
Children by Parents, and fome Subjects violently hindred by Princes *, 
who yet allow them tranfient Communion. And verily a man would think 
by the writings of many Confor mifts, that they took it for a Duty to o- 
bey a Prince in fuch a cafe, j i . Thofe who live where Church-corrup- 
tions are not fo great as to make tranfient Communion unlawful, but (b 
great as to make fixed communion feem to be a culpable confent ; If I 
come in travel to a Church of Strangers, I am not bound to examine what 
their Difciflme is, what their Lives be, or how their Fafiors are c Ailed : 
But where I am fixed I am more. bound to know thefe, and if I find them 
exclude Difcipline, live wickedly, and have unlawful Pallors, I may in 
fome cafes be a partaker of the fin if I fix among them. 12. They that live 
•inatimeandplaceof Schifm and diffraction, driving who (hall prevail, 
and condemning each other, all follovungfeveral Factions, and needing 
Reconcilers : it may for a time become in prudence the duty of peace- 
makers, to own no Faction, nor to be more of one Church than of a- 
nother, while he feeth that it will do more hurt than good •-, And thp fe 
that wait in hope as the Nonconformifts now do, to fee whether their 
Rulers will reftore them to reformed Pari(h Churches, may at once in 
prudence find it needful,neither to fix as Members in fome Parifh Churches 
till reformed (in the Teachers at lead) nor to feem to beSeparatifts by 
gathering new Churches. In none of all thefe cafes isamanunchriftened, 
nor fchifmatical, for being no fixed member ot any Church befides the 
Univerfal. And as it is the ill hap of thefe men commonly to ftrike 
themfelves, I doubt they will prove Gmwahimfdf no Cbriftian, by this 
Rule , who for many years before he died , they fay joyned with 
no particular Church, as a fixed member. And I know not well what 
particular Church they make the King a Member of. 

Seel. 2. To his Queftions Pag. 3. \jVcre we -not B.zptizc I into this Church, 
and do you not denounce Memberjlnp ? This U fiarce a civility. I anfwer, 
1. This Church ! which Church do you mean ? I was not Baptized into 
St. Gi/w'snor St. Andrews Parifh Church, but into one above an hundred 
milesoff, andyetmy removal made me no culpable Scpararift. Or doth 
he mean, This Viocefan Church ? No •, I was Baptized in the Diocefs of 
Lichfield. Doth he mean This National Church \ as it is fuppofed a po- 
litical body conftituted of the Ecclefialtical Governing and Governed 

Parts 



£78] 

Parts, he faith there is no fiich Church of England } but that It inferreth 
Popery to aflert fuch. But if he equivocate here, and mean not by a 
Church as in the reft, but either a chriflian Kingdom, or an agreeing Affo- 
ciationof many Churches, lam ftill a fixed member of fuch a Kingdom, 
and of fuch an AfTociation in all things neceffary to Churches and Chri- 
ftian Communion. 2. But Baptifm as fuch entred me only into the Uni- 
verfal Church •, much lefs did it fix me in any other. I was Baptized 
where I was to ftay but a little while. And this phrafe of {being Bap- 
tized into our Church^} is to me of ill found or intimation. Bellarmine faith 
that all that are baptized are interpretatively thereby engaged to the Pope : 
I was baptized in aParifh, and in a Diocefs, and in a Chriflian Kingdom ; 
but not lb into them, as to be obliged to continue under that Prieft or 
Bifhop or in that Kingdom. And my Baptifm I hope did not oblige me 
to every Canon, Ceremony, Form , or Sin of the aflbciated Churches 
in England, abufively by him called one Church. 3 . And unhappily it is not 
meer Independancy that he is ftill pleading for, but fome extremes which 
the moderate Independants difclaim, viz.. That a member of their 
Churches is fb tyed to them, that they may not remove to another with- 
out their confent. And am I fo tyed ? to what, to Parochial, or to the 
Diocefan, or to theaffociation of Englifn Churches. If it had been tothc 
Sphies, I would fain know whether their things called by them Indiffe- 
r*ffttfpecifiethem. 

Sett. 3. P. hi, 112. He yet more pleads as for Separation [why 
then above once or twice ? why Should I fo countenance defethive Worfhip and 
not rather reprove it by total forbearance of Communion,"] &c. j4nfw» 
My Reafons I told him, becaufe the accidents may continue which made 
it a Duty, but I cannot hinder others from yielding to his arguments : 
Let him make his beft of them. Only I muft tell him yet 1 . that if he lay 
his caufe on this, that their Parochial or Diocefan Ch urches are not de- 
fective. 2. Or that the defetts cannot by others be avoided, he will quite 
marr his matter, and undo all by overdoing. 3. And if he indeed think 
that all defective Churches muft be forfaken, he will be one of the great- 
eft Schifmaticks in the World. But who can reconcile this with the 
fcopeof his whole Book? 

SeB. 4. P. 1 1 2.Hejfaith, Here are no bounds fet to peoples Fancies of purer 
Mminiftrations.dnfw.UMG I fo oft and copioufly named the bounds,and now 
is the anfwer, \Jiere are none."] Are there none in all the fame Books 
he citeth ? 2. Scripture is their bounds, as he well openeth in his de- 
fence of Biihop Laud. 

Scft.-$. P. 114. He complains of my leaving out the belt part of 

hi? 



l79l 

his argument, viz. [The people may go to the Anabaptifts and Quaksrsl 
Anfw. Ates that fuch things fhould be the beft to fuch a man! By [May 
go~] you mean, i. lawfully, 2. or eventually^ 3. or for want of due hindring.J 
The Reader may think that you by Calumny father the firfton me, as if 
I faid, that fo to go to the Quakers were no fin, whereas I ftil] fay that 
if they do but leave your Churches by any culpable Error it is their fin; 
2. And as to the Event , many not only may but do y turn Quakers, 
Papifts and Athiefts, 3. And as to the third, it's all the queftion here 
(not whether we fhould feek to fave them but) which is the true reafona- 
ble and allowed means, Whether it be the Patrons choofing for all Eng- 
land the Paftors to whofe care they muft truft their Souls, and laying them 
in Jail that will choofe others ? Or whether there be not a righter way; 
And again I fay, Kings and Patrons choofe not mens Wives, or Phyfi- 
cians, or Food, and every man hath a charge of his Soul as well as of 
his Life, Antecedent to the Kings or Patrons charge- 

Sett. 6. But why (faith he P. 11. v» 115.) muft the King bear all the 
blame, if mens Souls be not provided for , &cl Anfw. He that is th 2 choofe r 
mult bear the blame, the King for Bifhops, and the Patrons for Parifh 
Priefts if they mifchoofe. And do you think in your confcience that all 
the Patrons in England of fo various minds and lives, are like to choofe 
only fuch, in.whofe paftoral conduct all that care for their Souls fhould 
reft. Yea though the Bifhops muft Inftitute them as they Ordained them. 
When we heretofore told them of the multitudes of grofly ignorant, 
drunken Prieft, their anfwers were, 1. Their Chaplains examined thenv 
2. They had certificates. 3 . A quare impedit lay againft them if they re- 
quired higher knowledge than to anfwer the Catechifm in Latine. And 
now experience will not warrant us to know what fuch men are. P. 1 1 5. He 
asketh How it is poffible on thefe terms to have any peace or order in an efta- 
bitted Church. Anfw* 1 have fully told him how in a whole Book of con- 
cord, And hath their way caufed greater peace and order? Yes, tothem- 
felves for the time. So Popery keepeth fome Order and Unity with 
them that hold to it : But it kept not the Greeks or Proteftants from 
forfaking them. 

Se&* 7. P. 119. 120. He faith, [They only look^onthofea* true Church^ 
es which have fuch Faftors whom they approve. Anfw. Equivocal words : 
i. If they approve not thofe whom they fliould approve, it is their fin. 
2. approving is either of the necejfaries ad effect only ad melius effe. They 
muft not put the later for the former. 3. Approving is by a Governing 
or but a difceming private Judgment. The firft they have not, but the 
later. In good eameft, woulcThe have all the people take thofe for true 

Paftors, 



[8o] 

Paftors, who they verily think are none. Can they at once hold con- 
tradictions? And if they muft not judge as diffenters, what meaneth 
Mr. DodmU and fuch mens Arguments to prove all no Minifters that 
have not Succeffion of Epifcopal Ordination ? Muft not the people on 
that account difown them, by his way ? 

Setl. 8. p. t 19. He brings in againft us my words [7 take thofe for 
true Churches that have true Paftors, and thofe for none, that have 1 . Men 
nncapable of the Pafioral Office , 2. or not truly called to it, 3. Or that deny 
thcmfelves the effential Power. Anfw. He knoweth that I fpeak not of e- 
quivocal but proper political Churches. And is it poflible that fuch a 
man (hould dhTent in this ? 1. Can he be a true P aft or that is uneatable of 
the Office ? Shall I abufe time to confute grofs Contradictions ? Or if he 
be a profeft Infidel , Can he be a Chriftian Paftor ? 2. Is a Layman a 
true Paftor that is not truly called to it ? why then do they argue as Mr. 
Dodvoell ? or Re-ordain men. 3. Can a man be a Paftor againft his will, 
or that confenteth not, but renounceth it. ? or can that be a true Pafto- 
ral Church that hath no Paftor ? Verily we are but upon low works, if 
thefe be the things which we muft prove. 

Setl. 9. He adds, \_And one or other of thefe he thinkj muft y if not all 
the parochial Churches in England fall under. ~] Anfw. 1 read thefe words 
of the Dr. toaPapift, [To fpeak^mtldly, this is a grofs untruth.~\ There- 
fore I hope it were no Rage for me to have faid the like. How doth he 
prove it ? Nay in the place cited by him 1 not only profeft the contrary, 
but gave the Reafon, p. 65. [Becaufe I judge of their Office by Gods Word, 
and not by the Kule which deprives them of an effential tart."} And 1 . He 
citeth my confeflion that thofe that I hear preach well (and therefore 
are not uncapable men.J 2. That their Ordination hath all efTentially 
necefTary, and all the worthy men that I know have the communicants 
of the Parifhes confent, though not Eledtion, and therefore are called, 
3. And many of them (as he) thinks they have allelTential to the Office 
and difown it not, though I think others deny it them, where there is 
the truth of what he faith. 

Sett. 10. f. 120. Becaufe my prattice dilproveth him, he finds out a 
Subtilty, that Ijoyn not with the Farifh Churches at true Churches , but only 
ai Chappels or Oratories — he account snot our parochial Churches as true Churches, 
nor doth communicate with them as fuch — a Subtilty beyond the reach of the old 
Brownifts. Anfw. Deliberately to print fuch untruths feems tolera- 
ble in him, but to fay they are fuch would feem paffion in me, and what o- 
ther anfwer are they capable of ?— What I exprefly fay of the three fore- 
mentioned excepted forts, he feigneth me to fay of all or moft of the 

Parifh 



[8i] 

Parifn Churches •, and yet dare not deny the truth of any one of the Ex- 
ceptions, i . Do not all thofe men take the Parifhes for no proper political 
Churches, but only for Parts of the Diocefan Church, fucb as we call Curates 
Chappels, who fay that a Biftop is a conftitntive Part of a true political 
Church andentereth the Definition, and that it's no C "hath no 

Bifhop, and that Diocefan Churches are the loweft political. And do I 
need to tell him how confiderable thefe men are ; .2. Doth 

he bimfelf take any one of thefe for a true political Church ? When I . 
young, divers Laymen by turns were ou: publick Reading Teachers : A- 
mong the reft one was after proved to counterfeit Or ders. This mans acts 
were no nullities to us that knew it not : but when we knew of fuch m 
we take them for true Paftors.and it for a true Church? 

Sect. 11. p. 22 1. He faith, \_Arty Parochial Church that hath fuch a one (a 
Bijhep or P aft or over them that hath the power of the Keys, and owns it felfrojbe 
Independent) he allows to be a true Church aid none elf e.~\ A fv. More and 
more untruths. 1. Where do I fay \jb*t owns it felf to be Independent ,] as 
if that were necefiary to its being. 1. Doth he not con fefs that I own general 
Vifitors or Archbifhops and appeals ? 2 That I own Affociations which he 
*makes the Hate of the Church of England? 3 .That I own Synods for obliging 
concord ? 4. That I own the Magistrates Government of ail ? Is there no de- 
pendancy in any of thefe, or all ? what dependancy more doth he alPert? 2+ 
As to the Power ot the Keys, dare he come into the light and tell us, whether 
any power of the Keysjhat is,of the Government of his particular Church be 
eflential to the Pallor of a true organized governed Church or not. If not, 
is it not a contradiction to call it a governed Church ? If yea then is he a Pa- 
ftor that wants what is effential to a Paftor ? But if they will call * forcing 
Power, or the prefent fecular Mode of their Courts, by the name of the 
Keys, L never faid that thefe are eflential to a Church," nor defirable in it, 
but am a Nonconformift becaufe I will not by Oath or Covenant renounce 
(joftj Endeavours to amend it. 

Sett. 11. p. I2i s 122. The next A collation is, [They leave it in the peoples 
Power notwith ft anding all legal Eftabliflments to own or difown whom they judje 
ftt.~\ Anfw. Hetireth me with putting me on repetitions. 1. They can 
unjuftly judge of-none and difown them without fin. It is not I that give men 
power to fin, nomorethanPw*rf0^>,orbey?cfc, which is but impotency : 
would I could give them power againft it. 2. It is not power to reject any 
chofen by King or Patrons, from being publick Teachers, or to have the 
Tithes and Temples, nortobeaPaftortoothers. But it is to have a dif- 
cermng Judgment whether one chofen by the Patron be a perfon to whom he 
himfelf ought to trull the paltoral Conduct of his Soul. Either the Dr. 

M thinks 



O] 

thinks that Laymen have this difcerning power and duty or not. If yea, 
is it nothing to him to feem thus feriouily to plead againft his confeience f 
If not, Iaskhim, t. What meant Chrift and his Apoftles to call men to 
beware of falfe Teachers, to avoid the Leven of their Doctrine, to mark 
them and avoid them, and turn away from them, and not bid them good 
ipeed.? 2. What meant all the ancient Churches to forbid Communion with 
Hereticks ? and even fome Popes and Councils to hear Mafs of Fornicators ?■ 
3. W 7 hat meant all thofe Fathers and Councils, that make himnoBilhop 
that cometh not in with the peoples confent ? if not Election. 4. Why 
will he not be intreated to tell us in what Countries, or with what Limitati- 
ons the contrary Doctrine muft be received ? Muft all the people truft on- 
ly fuchPaftors as the Prince or Patrons choofe all over England? or alfo in 
Ireland^ Trance^ Spain, Italy, Germ any, among Lutherans, CaIvinifts,Greeks, 
ehr.fiippofing the Law be on that fide? Muft we all be of the Kings or Patrons 
Religion ? 5. Is this agreeable to his old Doctrine cited Chap. j. 

Sett. 1 3. p. 122. He adds, fMr. Baxter [peaks his mind very freely a- 
gainft the Rights and Patronage, and the Power of the Magiflrates infuch Cafes, 
and pleads for the unalterable Rights of the people, as the old Separatifls did. Anf 
Is this true ? 1. What is it againft the Right of Patronage or Magiflrates 
Tower for me to choofe who I will trull the guidance of my Soul with, 
while I contradict not his power to choofe publick Teachers, and give 
the Tithes and Temples, and confefs that for order fake I ought to confent 
to fuch as he choofeth thus, unlefs he put on me a true necelfity of a better 
choice.? If the Ring choofe all the HofpitalPhyficians,' what wrong is it to- 
him, if I at my own charge choofe a better for my felf when I think elfe 
ignorance or malice will murder me ? Doth he that defireth (as I ever doj 
that in fo great a cafe there may be many Locks to the Church Door, deny 
any one of them, viz,. The O/dainers confent, the Magiflrates and Patrons r 
and the Peoples. Is this the fame that the old Separatifts did ? Should 
Cloccficr take Goodman a Papift for their Bifhop becaufe the King chofe him? 
Abundance of Patrons in thebeginning of Q^EUz.abeths Reign prefented 
Papiits. It feems if they were impofed by Law, and Patrons, you would 
have the people fubmit to thofe that cry down Bilhops, Liturgy and Ce- 
remonies too. Father Paul Sarpi tramlated by Dr. Demon will tell you 
how new a way this is. 

Sett. 14. p. 122. He adds [fthe People are made Judges of the Competency 
of their Mnifters?^ Anfxt. They are difcerning Judges. Doth not your charge 
imply that -you think otherwife 5 and yet you dare not fay fo. Muft they 
not judge when F on eigners heretofore were fet over them, whetherthey 
fpeak Ecgtiffijor no ? or if a Socinian deny Chrifts Godhead or the im 

mortality 



_ C8j] 

mortality of the Soul, whether he be Competent or not ? Or if they have 
an ignorant Curate, that when necelfary advice for the Soul is asked of him, 
will lay no more but [Trouble not your head about fuch matter s> but cafi away 
care and live merrily \~] If when the blind lead the blind both fall into the 
ditch, mull we not note the difference ? Alas how little would fome men 
have a man care for his Soul, in comparifon of caring what Phyfick, what 
Food, what Wife, what Servant, what Trade he choofeth ? Trull one to 
the conduct of fuch as all the Patrons of England wii\ choofe for you, but 
not any of the other. As to the not caufelefs forftking former Pallors, 
he knoweth that it was the Uriel charge of the old Canons of the Churches ; 
and the Bilhops themfelves do hold the fame. 1 thought they ought not to 
beforfakenbecaufementhruft them out. The Churches at Antioch, Alex- 
andria, and many more d id oft and long cleave to thofe Pallors w horn the 
Chriflian Emperors call out,and rejecl: thofe whom they impofed. When 
I have proved this fo fully in my firft Flea and Church- hi [lory, what an unfa- 
tisfattory anfwer is it for fuch a Dr. to repeat it and fay, This is flam deal- 
ing. Is the Judgment and Practice of the Churches fo light with him. 

Seel. 15. p. 123, The next charge is, {They give directions to the people 
what fort of Minifters they jhould own, and what not.~\ Anfw* Wedoib: And 
I had thought all Chriftians had been of the lame mind. It's fad with the 
Church when this Doctrine needeth apublick defence. Dare be fay,that all 
impofed mull be owned? Then either Salvation isattheMagiftrates will, 
or it's the priviledge of fuch Countries as have good ones,or a man may be fa- 
ved in any Country Religion contrary to the Article which they allfubfcribe* 

Sett. 16. Next the Accufer falls on my general Rule, [The Miniflry 
that tendeth to Deft ruction more than to Edification y and to do more harm than 
good,is not to be owned,~\ and his bare recital is confutation. Anf. I muft pro- 
fefsthat lam fo confident of this,that athoufand fuchdiflentingDrs.cannot 
change me : And according to his excellent Rules of judging in the end of 
his Difcourfe of Idolatry, which maketh natural Verities moft certain 
and fundamental, me thinks it fhould to him be furer of the two than 
theGofpelitfelf: viz.. That all men lhould love themfelves, and be un- 
willing to be damned, and therefore lhould not own that Miniflry of man 
which tendeth more to Deitrudlion than to Edification. And when 
he wrote that cited in my firft Chap, he was of that mind or he was a molt 
grofs diflembler. But mull it be otherwife ? Is it our Salvation that we 
mull facrifke to Priefts, Prelates or Princes wills ? If our Tithes would 
have ferved them, we had not gainfaid them. If our Bodies and Ellates 
might have fatisfied them, w r e had not fluck at it fo much. But when 
(Deftruttion) fignifieth (Damnation) it is .a hard bargain ? If we ihould re- 

M 2 nouncc 



[8 4 ] 

liounce our Chriftianity for them, we are never the nearer : for we are Hill 
Men and therefore loth to be deflroyed in Hell? Ifthisbethe meaning of 
the Article which denyeth freewill, I deny it freely : 1 have no fuch /ra 
mil. But O Reverend Fathers, be more impartial : Are you fo loth to iofe 
your great Riches and Honor, yea or to have your Reputation fo far que- 
stioned, as to be contradicted, or have others live by you that preach with- 
out your confent ; and yet muft all the people of England, fo much deny 
their own Salvation for you, as to fubmit to a deftxoying Miniftry ? Why 
then did you before put (agreement in Doctrine) among the requisites to 
our Accufation ? muft we agree and not judge whether we agree or not ? 
Why then mull not all Hereticks, Papifts, &c. be received, why then are 
all your voluminous Accufations produced to prove us jultly filenced ? and 
Mr.DWiv^toproveusnoMiniftersofChrill, if we want nothing but a 
human power to impofe us on the Churches, and a Patron to prefent us? 
But the beft is, when you have tailed and written your worft, men will be 
unwilling of deftruclion ; and till the Bible be forbidden, men will read, 
(Beware offalfe Prophets t Let no man deceive you : prove all things : from fitch 
turn away : Markjhem which caufe Divifions and Offences contrary to the doctrine 
whichyou have learned and avoid them ; and more,2 Pet.z.J.Tit. % . I o. 2.J. 10, 1 1 . 
Sett, 1 7 . He adds, ( That we may not thinkall this to be only a RomantickScheme, 
or Fiction,) he adds, (that they are not able to confute the people in too many pla- 
ces, who tell them that their pub lick Priefis arefo defective in their neceffary Qua" 
life at ions for their Office, as that they hold it unlawful to own fuch for true Mini" 
fters, and to encourage them by their pre fence, and commit the care of their Souls 
, to fuch. Anf. i . This is true : we are not able to confute them : If you be 
rejoice in your Wifdom. 2.. .Either you would have us believe that there 
are none fuch, or that no fuch are to be fo refufed. The firft you attempt not : 
If you did, I would repeat a Catalogue of my old Teachers and Acquain- 
tance : but Ihave named them to Mr. Hinkley. And as to the fecond, I 
prove it (a fad task for fuch a one as you to put us on.) 1 . Such as are known 
to be no authorized Minifter s of Chrift, (hould not be owned as fuch : But 
all thofe that waat the nccefiary Qualifications for their Office are no authori- 
zed Mini ft ers of Chrift. Ergo. If the Major were not true, Error or Ly- 
ing were a duty. The truth of the Minor is evident in the terms : necef- 
far turn eft fine quo res non effepoteft. It is Qualifications nece/fary to the Office in 
effe, and not only to the well performance that is mentioned. Forma nun- 
quam recipitur in materiam difpofitione neceffariacarentem. But here the Of- 
fice is the forme, and the neceffary difpofitionof the matter is fuppofedwanting A 
Ergo. Again :; All men are bound to avoid the apparent means of Dam- 
nation ; To truft the conduft of our Souls to men uncapable for want of 

neceflary 



[8 5 ] 

neceflary Qualifications, is an apparent means of Damnarion (as exclu- 
ding an ordinarily neceflary means of Salvation,; Ergo. Again : It is a 
great fin to encourage men in the wilful damning of their own Souls, and 
hindering the Salvation of many others : But to own an unqualified unca- 
pableman as a Minifter of Chrift, is to encourage him in the wilful dam- 
nation of himfelf (by his prophane undertaking^) and in hindering the 
falvation of many others, Ergo. 1 will not recite what Zcchary and other 
Prophets fay of the ufage oi falfe pretenders to be Prophets, left you 
mifapply it. Again : No man ought to confent to the prophane fubvert- 
ingof Chrift's Church-Olfices and Ordinances : But to confent to the Mini- 
ftry of unqualified uncapable men, is to confent to the fubverting of 
Chrift's Church-Offices and Ordinances. Ergo. Can your patience 
endure unqualified men in the Miniftry,and cannot endure fuch as us out of 
Jail,becauie we obey you not in all your impofed Oaths, Words andPradifes. 
Seel. 1 8. Next he thus confuteth US, (and direclly contrary to the Prin- 
ciples of the old Nonconformifis, a* appears at large by Mr. Ball faying (If 
Can's meaning be that it is not lawful to communicate in the Workup of God 
with Minifter s not fitly qualified, diforderly called, or carelefly executing their 
Office, it is directly contrary to the word of God, found Reafon, and confent of 
all the Learned. Anf Who would have thought that this w r orthy Doctor 
could not or would not fee a difference, between (fitly qualified] as ad bene 
effie, and unqualified, or wanting the qualifications neceffary ad cjfe, and be- 
tween (dtforderly called,) and (not called, or confentedto by the Flock at allj 
and between (carelefs executing the Office) and not having the Office as unca- 
capable.) He will not ftrain at fuch gnats as thefe. And is there no diffe- 
rence between (lawful Communicating) and committing the conduct of mens 
Souls to them as our ftatedPaftors. Mr. Bali lived not far from me : his in- 
timate Friend Mr.Jfn well knew his mind. You may yet know it fully from 
Mr. CW^of Chefier, a filenced Minifter bred up in his houfe andfometjme 
one of your old Patrons (Sr. Roger Bur gone) Nonconforming after ma- 
ny others at Rockfcalin Wanvickfinre. Mr. Zfatfwasnot fuch an enemy to di- 
ftinguifhing as to confound Necefiaries ad tffe Officii & ad bene effie. 

Seel. 19. But p. 124. lam alfo brought as againft my felt for faying 
(That a Mini fiers per fonal faults do not allow people to feparate from the Wor- 
kup of God. 2. nor all Minifterial faults, but only t ho fe that prove him and his 
Mwifiration utterly intolerable. Anf 1. A ftrong proof, that therefore the 
intolerable may be received, becaufe 1 fay, no : I contradict my felf by 
faying the fame things. Perfonal Faults 1 diftinguifhed from Minifterial 
and tolerable Minifterial from intolerable, then and now : and is this Con- 
tradiction? Do not ajl do fo too, till now? Yea in the place cited by him 

I, u 



[8*3 



I i. faid, that as to perfonal Faults, as Swearing, Drmfynnefs, &c. they 
fliould get a better man, if lawfully they can. 2. And I named juft as 
here the intolerable inefficiencies, direft pag. 747. viz. 1. An utter infufli- 
ciency in knowledge and utterance for the neceffary parts of the minifterialWork. 
2. If he fet him f elf to oppofe the ends of the Miniftry, &c by Herefie, Ma* 
Ugnity. And I name the faults that neceflltate not Separation. 

Sell* 20. Next he citeth my words againft fome mens Factious fepa- 
rating humor : And doth it follow that becaufe many are unfit to judge 
aright, that the people mult take all obtruded Paftors, and not judge 
to whom to truft the conduct of their Souls? How unfit are the ignorant 
to judge who is a meet Phyfician, Lawyer, Arbitrator, yea or wife or 
husband for them : And yet judge they mull as well as they .can : Do you 
not expect notwithstanding their unfitnefs, that they judge your Books 
and arguing to be truer than mine? And is it by your bare authority 
that they muft fo judge? 

Sell, 21. But he much blameth me for laying the Cafe far of£ 
when it is the London Separation which he queftioneth where the Minifters 
are no fuch men. Anfw. Could any man have fo far fearcht his heart 
as to know that he fpake only againft Separation in this one City ? 
When there is no fuch Limitation in his Book, And when the fame 
Laws, the fame Silencings, Fines, Imprifonments, accufations of the 
Preachers are all over the Land. But I am glad for the peace of the 
Nonconform ifts elfewhere, if it concern not them. 2. As to London^ 
he knoweth that I give the Preachers due honour, and that I juftifie 
not any unnecelTary Separation of the people from them,' nor of the 
Conformifts from the Nonconformifts. I gave him an account of my 
own Practice and the Reafons of it : Let other men give account of 
theirs, I know very many of my mind. 3. And he knoweth that loft 
told him that many things make good mens actions culpable in fome 
degree , that make them not criminalls , odious , or to be ruined. 
And that I gave him many of their Extenuations, 4. Among the 
reft, verily (to ufe his own Phrafe) it looks fimewhat odly by the Church 
Law or Canon iff of ado to excommunicate many fc ore thoufands in the Land, 
meerly for profeuing to take fome things impofed to be fin, and then to 
revile and profecute them as Schifmaticks, for not communicating with 
you. 5. And 1 told you that Laws'and the higher ground are not always 
the Terminm a quo of S-chifm : Some of them were never of your Flocks, 
and therefore never feparated from you, but as you do from them ( and 
fomewhat lefs.) 6. And the Kings Licenfe firft, and proclaimed Cle- 
mency often, gave them fome pofTeffiou as the Law giveth you. 7. 

And 



[«*3 

And Plague, Fire and thoufonds that cannot hear you, made itnecefTary. 
But fome Ptrijl) Churches are not fall. Anfw. I fee none of thofe, I come 
in divers where many cannot hear the Preacher •, and would yen have 
moref And again I tell you, i. They keep meetings in teller Parilhes 
to receive thofe that come out of greater. 2. If thofe come to you, 
they muft keep out others. 3 . When it is commonly known that in their 
own great Parilhes there is not room, it's hard for Families to look a- 
bout the City for room in uncertain places. 4. And all perfons that 
culpably diflike you are not therefore to be forfaken. 

Sett. 22. But the fame man that citeth my Reprehenfions of Separa- 
tion asketh me, why I do not difown it ^ as if he prefently forgot what he 
had written. I difown Schifm, and therefore the greatefl in thefinful 
Church-tearers that fmite the Shepherds,and then cry out of the Flocks for 
being fcattered: And 1 difown the leaft,butnot by Crueltybut in Charity. 

Setl. 23. p. 127. He repeats the Incapacities named by me, (viz. in 
Knowledge and Utterance, by Herefie, &c.) and faith, Of all thefe the 
people are judges ^ and fo may feparate : Thtu no fit led Church canfubfift^ &c* 
j4nfw. 1. It's a hard cafe that in fuch ?. Volumn as this, he will not 
tell us his own Judgment, further than the accufing of ours intimateth 
it ( which if we tell him of, he can fay, [_lt wot net his fenfe."} Will he 
openly fay that the people have not a private Judgment of difcretion 
in order to their own practice, whether the Preacher be an Heretick, 
Papift, Infidel, Idolater, or not. ? but mult take him for their Paftor 
be he what he will ? I know he will not fry it. What then would he be 
at ? Why doth he accufe us for that which he dare not contradict ?" 
Doth he any where tell us, in wh.it cafes and how far they muft- jud^e ? 
No, he (buns all fuch Queftionsas tend to bring the caufe'into the light: 
put twenty and he will aniwer few or none of them. If he did, perhaps 
we (hould be agreed whether he will or not. 

Eut ( Reader, bear thefe tiring Repetitions as I muft do'J 1. He 
knoweth that it is the Ordxmert and not the people whom I make 
fudges whofiallbe aMinifter. 2. That it is the King and Patrons that I make 
the only Judges who [hall be tolerated, and maintrined by them, and 
have the Tythes and /Temples. •$. And that though the Univerfal 
Church was many hundred years, for the peoples Election, I plead ad effe 
relationis for no more as neceilary but content, who f mil be the Paftor^ to 
whom they will trull the conduct of their Souls : And this is but 
Judicium difcretionis & privatum non publicum regentis^ only guiding each, 
mans own ouedience to God. 4. He knoweth (if he will know) that I fay 
and fay again,that the advantages of the Laws and Rulers Favour,and the 

Tythes. 



C88D 

Tythes and Temples, and Parifh Order, and national Aflbciation, arefo 
great advantages to the Service of God, that no man fhould be depri- 
ved of them, and go another way, but upon neceffity, and very great 
and urgent caufe. But I intend God willing further to prove to 
him that [when 9000 Miniftcrs are all required to fin or ceaje their- 
M'miftry, a neceffity is put upon them to exercife it again ft fuch Prohibitions 
as farr as they can without doing more hurt than good *, And that the finful 
compliance of 7OCO will not excufe.the other 2000 for this duty."] And this 
is the cafe which a friend of truth fhould have debated. 

Sect. 24, p. 126. But ( faith he ,) How ft) all a man efcape being thought 
Heretical by the people. Anfw. 1. See his own anfwer here, Chap. 1.2. 
How (hall one get all the world to be wife and good t If lknew, 1 cannot 
procure it. But put the cafe within your fight } How will.you efcape be- 
ing judged no rightful Pofiefibr of your Deanry, or Prebend, or the 
King's Chaplains place, or the Parilh Church of St. Andrews ? 1 know 
not how: And yet if an Ufurper accufe you here, and fay e. g. that the 
Church of St. Andrews is his and not yours, muft not the people judge 
which of you they will take for the Ufurper, and which they will joyn 
with and obey ? In the times of Ufurpation, many of the people judg- 
ed the Bilhops to be none of their Pallors, nor the ejected Minifters *, 
muft not the reft therefore judge that they were ? Where Ufurpers de- 
ny the King's Right, ought not the people to judge him to have right , 
becaufe they may err ? and what Prince or Prelate may not the people 
judge Ufurpers ? What Landlord may not the Tenants deny ? 
What Matter the "Servants f What Husband the Wife ? But muft they 
not therefore be difcerning Judges, who is their Landlord, Mafter,Hus- 
bahd, What Schoolmafter may not unlearned men mifcenfure ? What 
Phyfician may they not vilifie ? And yet they (hall judge and choofefor 
themfelves , andfpeed accordingly, who can help it . ? deny men a judg- 
ment of difcretion to guide their own choice and actions, and you con- 
tradict mankind, and deny men to be men. What in the world is more a- 
bufed than Reafon and Freewill f and yet men muft act by Reafon and 
Freewil. Irs unworthy a Divine to cry out againft a thing for fuch una- 
voidable Inconveniences, as humane darknefsand badnefsdoneceifitate, 
and to i wallow Camels on the other fide and take no notice of the mif- 
chiefs thereof, nor once to tell us how to efcape both. 

Sett. 25. He inftanceth in mens cenfure of me for the Votlrine of 
Juftification and asketh^ Are men bound to feparate from me ? Anfw. One 
would think by many fuch words that the Doctor did ferioufly believe 
that I had fa id, that all men are bound to follow an erring Judgment^ and 
to feparate when they falfly judge they ought. If 



[89] 

If he think not that I faid To, I would not name his fault left I more 
offend him : If he think I faid fo, I had hoped weaker Readers could have 
better underftood me. When I read in the Books of fome Con form ills yet 
living whom 1 much honour, that to obey Confcience though it err is to 
obey God, I took it for my duty oft and copioufiy (efpecially in my 
Chrift Direct.) to open that cafe, and to prove that Confcience h no Law- 
maker, but only adifcernerof Gods Law, and th.it an erring Confcience 
involvetliamaninfinwhetherhefollowethitornof, becaufe God chang- 
eth not his Law when we change our Judgments of it. But yet there are 
fome cafes in which it is a farr greater fin to goagainfl: Confcience though 
it err than with it. The Dr. dare deny none of this. And doth ill if 
he would perfwade men that I deny it : and that God makes it mens du- 
ty to do ill whenever they judge it good, or forfake good, when they 
judge it evil. 

Seel. 26. But the great offence is p. 130 that / infinuate that the whole 
'Body of the Church U guilty of great Faults, Conformity being a fcandalopts 
thing with thirty tremendous Aggravations. — And no wonder if men fo judging 
prefer others, &c. Anfm -Again and again I fay, 1. This is unrighteous 
dealing ; To impofe all thofe things on us ; To caft us out of the Mi- 
niftry and Churches for not obeying: To Fine and imprifon us, and 
aecufe us as Schifmaticks and Seditions, To write and preach for the exe- 
cution of the Laws againft us, to ourRuine: To aggravate our Crime 
becaufe we tell them not our Reafons ; To call us to tell them what we ftick 
at *, To threaten to get the King to force us to give our Reafons , To 
declare in Prefs and Pulpit that we wilfully keep up a Schifm and have 
nothing to fay for it \ To continue all this when we have been fiient fe- 
venteen years, as fearing that they could not bear it *, And after all this 
when we difavowed any Accufation of them, and only told them what 
we feared our felves, to come upon us with this charge of deep accufing 
their Conformity, isinjuftice if there beany in the World. Either it is fin 
or no fin which we fear. If none, why are we not confuted ? or invited 
yet to give our proofs ? If fin, who mould be moft offended ? To be yet 
plainer with you, had the cafe been in the times of the old Prophets and 
Priefts, I queftion whether to let fuch a Kingdom alone fo long in that 
which we judge to be fo great fins, would not have been heavily charged 
on the Preachers : And I profefs that my confcience is more in doubt whe- 
ther my fo long forbearance was not my fin, than whether faying at laffc 
what I did was fin : And I had nothing to fatisfie it, but the men that I 
ought to judge wifer than my felf, perfwaded me that it would hive done 
more hurt than good, and caufed but our further rending, And I think 

N the 



[ 9 o] 

the Conformifls mould have been defirous to help them to try whether it 
were fin or not, and to have been thankful for helping to lave them from 
it, it it proved fuch. Bat though hence I extenuate the too great with- 
drawings of fome men againft their too deep accufations, he knoweth 
that notwithstanding all thefe aggravations, I neither justified nor pravfti- 
fhd proper Separation. 

Sett. 27. p. 133. The next charge isjhat I make them Ufurpers,i>z&, 1. 
AH that come into the place of the ejected Mnifters, at leaft to the people that con- 
tent not : But Law and Vfurpation are contrary. Anfxv. 1 . 1 never faid that all 
are Ufurpers to all the people that content not : If the body of the 
Church confent the man is no llfurper, though lome odd perfons con- 
fen t not. He is the Churches Paftor, though not the refufers. 2. I ne- 
ver laid that any that had the Law for them, were Ufurpers of the Tithes 
and Temples. 3. I never faid that all that fucceed ejected Minifters are 
Ufurpers *, many of them have the Churches after-confent, though not 
their Eledion. Yea I often faid, 1. That it is the peoples duty to 
confent to the change when it is for the Churches good. 2. A nd that their 
conftant Communion fignifieth their confent. But I will not believe yet 
that the Law will prove a man no Ufurper of the Paftoral Relation. And 
when I have fo largely proved the contrary to be true, and to be the judg- 
ment of the ancient Churches, it's an unfatisfadlory courfe to me, to leave 
it unanfwered, and fuppofe himfelf in the right. Not only the firft 
300 years, but even under Conftamim, Valens, Theodofim Junior. Zcno y Ba- 
filijcm, Anafiatim, Philippics, Juftiman, &c. even the Patriarchal Seats 
practifed the contrary, keeping their chofen Pallors and refufing thofe 
impofed by the Emperors •, and other Bimops Seates the Emperors fel- 
dom meddled with as to the choke. Yea in Arcadims days Chryfiftomes 
Joannites, in his imperial City were of another mind. Is his Rule true only 
in England, or in Frar.ce 9 SjAinJtaiy i M»fcovy i &c. alfo, or where, that the 
Law maketh men true Palters? 

Seel. 28. But/?. 132. he {aid \jhat he dctcfteth the Principles that Jet 
mans Laws above Gods, and that in ftating the Controverfie he fuppofed an 
Agreement in all the Subftantials oj Religion between the dijfenting parties of our 
Church. Anfw. Of all things you are the unhappieft in flaring the Contro- 
verfie. The Inftances here were 1 . Infufhaency through Ignorance, 2. 
Herefie, 3. Malignant oppugning the very ends of the Miniftry, 4. No 
true calling. 1. Doth he agree with us in all the Subftantials of Religion 
who knoweth not the very effemialsof Chridianity i Ignoramis non eft 
Confenjiis. 2. Doth he agree with us in all the fubftantials that is a Here- 
tick . ? or if we falfly judge his opinion Herefie, do we agree with him ? 

3. Is 



\ . Is malignant oppofing Godlinefs and pleading for prophanenefs or un- 
godlinefs an agreement in all the Subftantials ? 4. What if we agree in all 
Subftantials with an unordained Layman impofed on us ? is he there f 
our true Pallor f 5. But how (hall we know whether we agree or not , 
if we are no judges of it ? Do you not fee your own Contradictions ? who 
fnall judge whether the Paftors or People agree ? fhall the Prince or Patron I 
If you know the Teachers heart, how know you the Peoples ? Mu^ 
believe that we agree, becaufe you fay fo ? If the people muft judge whe- 
ther they Ajree, they muft judge of the things in which the Agreement i?, 
that is, both the Paftors Doctrine and their own minds. And is not this 
to judge whether he be a Heretick, c\c. or not . ? And who fnall judge whe- 
ther the difagreement be in Suhftantials f It mull be the agreers. And 
they muft be wifer than I if they can learn from you here, what is a Sub- 
ftantial, and how to know it. 

Sett. 29. It may be he will fay, that where Princes and? arli anient s are 
Orthodox, no tie are Vfurpers, but true Paftors whom they impofe. Anf. But 
doth not this make the people Judges whether Princes and Parliaments are 
-Orthodox^nd is not that as dangerous as to judge of the Teachers ? And 
Orthodox Princes and Parliaments may impofe Heretical Teachers : and 
may by Law enable Patrons and Prelates to impofe them. What more na- 
tural than to propagate what men Jike,and oppofe what they hate ? If the 
many hundred Patrons in Englandbe all orthodox and pious, andfreefrom 
Schifm,&c. we are ftrangely happy .- If not we may expect that they choofe 
accordingly, Bnt the Biflwps will fecureiu. Anf. 1. They have not done. 
2. They fay they cannot by Law. 3. Would it be any wonder if Bifhop 
Goodman of Glocefter kept not out any Popifh Teacher ? Or if fuch Fathers 
of the Church as Archbilhop Bromhall let in fuch as would have the Pope 
Govern us all by the Canons as Patriark and principium mitatis, and all pafs for 
Shcifmaticks that confent not to fuch a forreign Jurifdiction, contrary 
to our National Oaths. 

Sett. 30. As to his inftance of Solomons putting out Abiathar, &c. I an- 
fwered it fully (and many more objections) in my firft Plea, and will not 
write the fame again for him that thinks it not worth the anfwering or ta- 
king notice of. " 

Seel. 31. When p. 1 38, 1 39. he makes it the way to all imaginable Cox- 
fuftons, to deny, 1 . that the Kings Nomination of BiJJiops. 2. and the Patrons 
of Partfl) Paftors proveth them no Ufurpers, but true Paftors, is he not 
an unreverend difhonourer of Biihops himfelf, who maketh them all that 
for a thoufand years held the fame that I do, to be the authors of all imd* 
ginabkConfufion ? Is he not unreverend to their Canons ? and to antiqui- 

N 2 ty? 



ty ? and to the univerfal Church it felf * Whatever in his third part he Ca- 
vils againft it, he cannot be fo ftrange to Church-hiftory as not to know 
that they were commonly againft him. 

Sett. 32. The matter of the next accufation is p. 13?, 140. having 
laid Plea p. 4 1 . 42. \_If any make finfnl terms of Communion by Laws or Man- 
date ,impofing things forbidden by God on thofe that will have Communion,and expel" 
ling thofe that will not fo fin] I add \Jf any fiwuld not only excommunicate juch 
perfons for not complying with them in fin, but alfo projecute them with Malice^ 
Imprifonments, Banijliment or other Perfection to fore them to tranfgrefs, this 
wereheynow aggravated Schi fin."] Anf. And is not this true ? or doth his 
bare repeating it difprove it ? Is he a zealous Enemy of Schifm that taketh 
all this for none ? I did not Ileal it out of his defence of ArchbifhopLW, 
but lefs than this is there made Schifm. Yet he tells us that hefets not 
mans Laws above Gods, nor pleads for Perfecution. But left the repeating 
of my words fhould fhame the Accufer he hath two handfome devices 1. 
He puts [complying with them in fin, that is. Conformity f] as refufed,inftead 
of \_thofe that will not fo fin } in finful terms of Communion forbidden by God, &C.] 
2. He forgeth an addition as mine {and therefore it is no fin to fiparate from 
fucW] when I have no fuch words, being only there telling what is Schifm, 
and not what is not. I confefs it will found odly to fay \Jt is Schifm not to 
communicate with thofe who excommunicate, imprifon and banifl) me by Law, if 
J wiH not do that which God forbids, and they makg a Condition of my communion^] 
Fori mull not fin : And in prifon and Banifhment under Excommunicati- 
on they deny me communion. And yet I fay not that it's always faultlefs, 
For if they do not execute their own Law, in fbme cafes, where publick 
good requi ret hit, I may bell communicate with them as far as they per- 
mit me withoutthe impofed fin, till they do execute them. But this ex- 
cufeth not their Schifm. 

Sett, 33. p. 140. He blames me as charging him with the filencing defign. 
A if 1 did warn him in real defire of hisfafety .* If defending the Church- 
Laws and Endeavours for ourreftraint, in the words to which I refer the 
Reader : If preaching and writing againft our preaching as Schifm, and 
all the reft in his Books do fignifie no owning of our (ilencing, I am glad 
that he meaneth better than he feemeth : who could have thought other- 
wife that had read 1 .his firft Q. whether it be not in the power of thofe that 
give orders to limit and fufpenH theexercife of the minifterial Fun&ion. 
Q^ 2. And whether theChriftian Magi Urate may notjuftly reftrain fuch 
Minifters from preaching, who after the experience, do refufe to renounce 
thofe Principles which they judge do naturally tend to involve us again in 
the like trouble. And Serm. p. 42. the Church of Englands endeavours after 

Vmformitj 



Uniformity vs acquitted from Tyranny over the Conference (of men, hy the Judg- 
ment y &c] And p. 54. condemning them as hard thoughts of the Biflwps 
that in erne hy they follow lthacius, &c. And in this new Book, more fuch 
might have deceived a man that judged by his words. And his arguing that 
it is unlawful to preach to them becaufe it is unlawful to hear \ What was 
the meaning of all this if notfilencing us? 

Sell. 34. p. 140. The next Crime is [Flea p. 42. As Ion* as they fup-> 
pofe the terms of our Communion to be finful y they fay , The Schifm doth not lie 
on thofe that ft par ate, but on thofe that do imp ofe fuch terms : and therefore they 
may lawfully fepar ate from fuch impofersT^ Anf It's hard to know what words 
toufe to detect all thefe hiftorical untruths without being thought paffio- 
nate. 1 . I never faid that (fuppofwg tbemfinful) will juftifie a falle fuppofer, 
but have oft faid the clean contrary (their fuppofing ) is of his forging. 2. I 
faid not 'the Schifm doth not lie on thofe th u fepar ate) but only that it's Schifm in 
the Impofers .) This alfo is his Fiction. 3 -And I faid not (and therefore they may - 
lawfully feparate from fuch impofers.) But all Readers will not ftay to find out 
his Forgeries.But how much of this he (aid once himfelf,fee in my Chap. 1 . 
Seft. 49. But here he comes to fomeclofing diftinction, which mould 
have gone before *, [Between terms of Communion plainly and in themfelves 
finful \ and fuch as are only fancied to befo through prejudice or wilful ignorance ,or 
error of confcience.~] Anf What a deal of labour might he have fpared him- 
felf and us, if he had here fixed the Controverfie in the beginning ^ we 
thankfully accept your late diftiuction : we ever defied here to put it to 
the Ifiue \ If it be through prejudice wilful Ignorance or Error that we 
judge Conformity a fin, not only Separation but Nonconformity is a fin. 
If we do not prove fome parts of Conformity (for one is enough) to be 
plainly fmful^ which are i npofed as Conditions of our Minifterial Commu- 
nion,andfomewhatimpofedonthe people as conditions of all that part of 
yourCommunion,which lever difTwaded them from, let the blame be ours; 
SetL-$$. He paifeth next to them that deal more ingevHonJly than I in own- 
ing Separation, And thenreturnethjto me p. 151. and he over and over 
repeateth his falfe accufation, \jhat I th'mkjt lawful to communicate with them 
cccafionally, but not ai Churches (as thinkjng they want an ejfential part, viz. a 
Tafiorwith Epifcopal Power) but as Oratories, and fo that I renounce Communion 
with their Churches as C\mrches.~] Anfw. If thefe untruths had been made 
without evidence only, and not alio againfi evidence , they had been the more 
excufeable in a man of confideration • But now they are not fo, when I 
havefo often declared that I take the Parifh Churches that have true Pa- 
ftors for true governed Churches, and prove that they have true Bifhops 
(Epifcopos Cregis) whether the Diocefans will or not, becaufe Gods Will 

and 



c 



94 3 



and not the Invefters, inftituteth their Office, and meafureth their power, 
and the people (hew their confent by conftant Communion. 

Sett. 36. Then becaufe £/ never gathered a Churchy nor baptized any in 
2o years {nor gave the Sacrament in_ 1 8,~j he would know \jvhat Church I have 
been of all this time,~\ and he fuppofeth [of no Churchy Jinf I thought lie 
had done with this before : but he thinks it an advantage not to be fo ea- 
fily let go. Would he know. 7. What my Thoughts were ? 2. Or my 
Church-Covenant ? 3. Or »zy-adtual Communion? He ihall know all. 1. I 
thought divers Minifters where 1 lived truePaftors, and the Churches true 
Churches : I cannot fay fo of every Curate. 2. I made no Covenant with 
any of them .- If I had Mr. Cheny would have condemned me of Atheifra, 
Infidelity, and what not. 3. With divers of them I went conftantly to 
the Liturgy, Sermon and Sacrament, as with true Churches, with lome 
of them I only joyned in prayer and hearing, 1 heard Dr. Kieves till he 
caufed me to be fent to Jail, and then 1 could not : And though I was ac- 
cufed by many for hearing a fwearer, I told them, he fwore not in the 
Pulpit .• I heard his poor Curate conftantly, when I was accufed for hear- 
ing a Drunkard, and told them that he was not drunk in the Pulpit. But 
I mult teil you, 1 communicated alfo with fome Nonconformifts. And 
now account me of a Church or no Church as you pleafe. I doubt you 
are renewing the Independant Qneftions with me, which I am loth to difc 
pute. 1 . Qu. Whether an ordained Minifter mull be a private Member of 
another mans Church ? Q_2. Whether when a Non-refident Dean leaveth 
his Parifh to an ignorant drunken Curate, the Parifh Church be elTentiated 
by its relation to the Refident Curate , or the Non-refident Dean $ 
QK 3. W 7 hether a Minifter not degraded but filenced, living in fuch a Pa- 
rifh is bound to take that Curate for one that hath the Paftoral Charge of 
his Soul, and as the reft of the flock "to commit his Soul to his Paftoral 
Condudt in perfonal, private and publick Offices ? 4. But I would ask the 
Dean himfelf, whether a man may not be a fixed Member, of two or three 
Churches at once ? TheReafonsof the ^£^, are i.Becaufefbythem)a 
man may be the fixed Pa/for of two or three Parifh Churches at once : And 
an Integral Member of many is not fo hard a cafe, as to be a conftitu- 
tive Regent Part of many. 2. Becaufe a man may have two houfes in two 
Parilhes at once •, As many Londoners have half their Family at a near 
Country houfe, and half at a City houfe, and are themfelves part of the 
week or day at one, and part at the other. And they make Covenants 
with neither, but what a&nal Communion intimateth. Q. 5. And if 
fo why might not I at once be judged a Member of two Churches at once, 
to far as I communicate oft with both ? I therefore anfwer hisqueftion 

further, 



[95] 



further, what Church I was a Member of f i. I was a Member of Chrifts 
Universal Church ? Is that none ? and yet is in the Creed ? 2. I was a 
Member of the reformed Church if you will call that One becaufe aflbcia- ■ 
ted in one Reformed Religion, 3. I was a Member of the Church of 
England, both as a Chriftian Kingdom, and as the Churches in England 
agreeing in the Chriftian Reformed Religion. 4; I was a Member of the 
Provincial Church of Canterbury, fo far as living peaceably in it, and fub~ 
mittingboth tofuch power as they had from the King as Magiftrates and 
a meer general helping inftrucling care of many Churches could make mc. 
5. So far alfo I was a Member of the Diocefan Churches where I lived. 6. 
And I was a Member of fome Parochial Churches' fo far as conftant Com- 
munion could make or prove me : And of others (two at once) fofar as 
partial and moveable Communion could prove me. If this will not fa- 
tisfieyou, I have proved before (and oft tofomelndependants) that ma- 
ny men are under no obligation to be fixed Members of any Pariih Church : 
f whether the King be of any I know notj 

Sett. 3 7. But p. 152. he comes upon me, why I thought it not my duty dl 
this while to Baptizje, Administer the Sacrament, was Inotfolemnly bound by Or- 
dination to one as well as the other ? Presbyters of old were rarely allowed to 
preach.~\ Anf. 1 . You tell the World what meafure we muft expect from 
fuch as you. If we had all forborn any Church gatherings, and Paftoral 
undertaking of Flocks, and both Sacra nents, c\c. and only preached as 
loth to offend you more than needs, our accufations had but been the grea- 
ter ? which incourageth your more ingenious Diffenters to do what they al- 
io are accufed of 2. Do you not know our Reafons ? They are thefe : 
j. Becaufe we fuppofe there is a greater want of our preaching, than of 
ouradminiftring Sacraments : And we would obey the Laws in all things 
lawful \ and go from you and offend you no further thanneceif ty will jufti- 
fie us. 2. Becaufe a Minifters Relation to the Church-llniverfal and to 
the world ceafeth not, when his relation to a Parilh Church may ceafe.- 
And we have not the fame obligations to give the SacrameEt to all the 
Chriftians or World where we preach, as we have in a Pariih Charge. 
Paul thanfcth God that he baptized nor many Corinthians, becaufe he 
not fent to baptize but to preach the Gofpel ; nor is the terrible 
charge 2 Tim. 4. 1 2. equal as to both. 3. Our Ordination bound us to 
preach and ad minifter Sacraments, when we are thereto lawfully called : 
And we were fo called to one, when we were not to the other .- nor were 
all of us fo called alike. But when we know that this way doth as much of- 
fend you, we may go further in due time. Aud do you in one part of 
your Book blame us'for going further than the old Nonconformilts fas 

you 



you thought) and in the fecond thus accufe us for not going further.' 
Sett. 38. He is again at his talk of only occafional Communion? Andhad 
his miftake no Occafion ? yes ; he that readeth my Books may fee what; : 
that is, 1 . When I have faid that fome Parifhes having not capable or cal- 
led Paftorsl take to be no true Political Churches ; but yet can communi- 
cate with fuch as Oratories or Chappels. 2. That fome true Churches I 
communicate with in tranfitn or occafionally as ftrangers, whofe Difci- 
pline and Minifters Calling I am not bound to take account of. 3. I tell 
thofe that withdraw too tar and take fome true Churches for none, that 
were it fo they might occafionally join with them as Oratories, 4. And 
thofe that dare not commit their Souls to the Paftoral Conduct of fome 
weak and bad men, that yet they may occafionally communicate with them 
upon great and urgent Reafons. And here he gathereth his oft repeated 
untrue Reports. ' 

Sett. 39p. 1 5 6. He grants there is no Separation where there is no Obligati- 
on. And he will prove us obliged to confi ant Communion with them. 1. Bc- 
caufe we mnfi ufe all lawful meant for Peace and Unity. Anf. 1 . We are rea- 
dy to prove that our Conformity \ nor our forbearing to preach the Gofpel are 
no lawful means. 2. Can you as well prove, 1. That it is not lawful 
for you to joyn with us ? 2. And to forbear filencing, excommunicating, 
fining and imprifoning us ? Was it no lawful means for Peace and Vnity to 
haveforborn impofing all the Covenants,Profeffions ? Subfcriptions, Oaths 
and Pra&ifes, of what you call indifferent and we think finful.' 3. And is 
it not lawful for Parents to enter their own Children at Baptifm in Cove* 
nant with God ? 4. Is it unlawful to Chriften fuch as fcruple your ufe of 
theCrofs? 5. Or to receive thofe to Communion that fcruple your Ge- 
fture? 6. Or to forbear Canonical Excommunicating all profefled Non- 
conformities in the Land ? 7. Or to let Lords and Gentlemen choofe any 
Nonconformiits to be Tutors to their Children, whiift the Papifts may 
fend theits to Doway, St. Omers, &c. He faith, he is \jerfwaded it is one of 
the provoking fins of the Nonconformifts, that they have beenfo backward to do, 
what they were convinced they might with a good confeience. Anfi Woe to US, 
if we be not willing to know our fins. But 1. If you will tell me of any 
one lawful thing th3t 1 have omitted, that tended to Peace, I will thank 
you. 2. An indifferent thing is no means of Peace when it will do more 
hurt than good. To ceafe the Miniftry we durft not : To ufe fome in- 
different forms in your Churches we could not, being caft and kept out. 
And to ufe the faoie to thofe that are againft them ; when it will hurt 
them, and procure no peace with you, and thofe have fped worft from 
you that haye come neareft you, aud nothing will fervc but all j what ten- 
dency 



U7l 

dency hath this to Unity ? You know my own cafe proveth all this. I 
regarded not the cenfures of any that go too far, fo as to keep me from 
doing what I judged lawful : And did it tend to peace ? No, one fends 
meto Jail when I went twice a day to his Church: Othersfay, He is like an 
j4pe, that is fo much the more ugly becaufe he is like a man : Another more fo- 
ber faith, \J how not what to make of Mr. B. He communicateth with us, and 
he preachethto the Nbnconformifts : Like a man that will go one. ft ep on one 
fide the hedge y and another ftep on the other. ~] And this man is much in the 
right : for I fay ftill, [_It is thejeparatmg hedges in Chrift's Vineyard that Ihate y 
and the enclofwg hedge that 1 am for : I have Bufinefs, Friends, Relationsand 
great Duties on both fides the hedge, fome with you and fome with others , 
And if your hedges would feparate Parents from Children, Husband and 
Wife, Chriftian Neighbours, &c caufelefly I will not be fo feparated, 
but do my bell to pull down that hedge. And again confider whofe fin 
it is, that fo many lawful things are denyed us for Vnity. Hold bun to your 
Rule here and we are agreed. And he ieemeth to confent. For, 

Seft. 40. p. 1 76. Of the Rule Phil. 3. 16. he faith, \JflwiU but al- 
low that by virtue of that Rule men are bomd to do all things lawful for the pre- 
ferving the peace of the Churchy we have no further difference about this matter. 
Anf. It's well he will fay fo much of the Rule, we gladly confent. Then all 
the queftion is, what's lawful on both fides f I add one Qjnore. Is it not 
lawful for peace to forbear forcing men to difoblige 1 000 ? whom they ne- 
ver knew, from being obliged by an Oath and Vow to that part of the 
matter which is good ? If it be the conjunction of fome things bad, that 
difobligeth them, then he that inferteth a bad thing is free from all obli- 
gations of his vow, even in materia licita & necefiaria. And if the want 
of impofing Power be made the caufe, whether is the Coronation Oathim- 
pofed by a fuperior Power on the King, or is it his own contract ? or is 
he therefore not obliged by it ? Had it not been requifite that you fhould 
have juftified all that we ftick at as unlawful, before you charge us with 
croffing this Rule? 

Sell. 56. p.zo^&c. My words in many Books againfl Schifm are ci- 
ted and praifed \ Reader, he tells men the meafure of their Charity and 
Church Communion, viz* That men that do as much as I do, that forbore 
fo long Sacramental Ad miniftration, that gathered no Church, that held 
conftant Communion with divers Pariih Churches, that have wrote Co much 
and earneftly againfl: Schifm, (hall yet be ejected, fdenced, pay 40 1. a 
Sermon and lie in Jails unlefs I will do more. While Biftiop Lauds de- 
lign for widening the Church doors to the Papifts, is magnified by Heyliu 
and others as a good work. 

O &3. 



Cm] 

Seft. 13. Firft he finds but w* juftifiable Caufes of Separation - 7 but/?.' 
213,214. he hath found three and no more, 1 . Idolatrom Worfhip ; 2. Falfe 
Dotlrine impofed inftead of true* 3. Making and impofing things indifferent a* 
necejfaryto Salvation. Anf 1. Readers,, do you remember how even now 
he expofed to odium, the peoples judging whether the Pallors be Here- 
ticks ? And now they may feparate for falfe Dottrinc. 2. Iintreathim 
to think again of thefe Cafes following. 1 . What if the Worfhip be 
not Idolatrous, but Blafphemous, or utterly Ridiculous, tending to con- 
tempt of God ? 2. What if it be in an unknown Tongue > 3. What if 
the Church have no true Minifter ? I am glad you are not for feparating for 
want of Epifcopacy or Epifcopal Ordination ? 4. What if the Church 
want half the Church- Worfhip ? as to have Preaching and Prayer without 
Sacraments ? or Sacraments without Preaching or Prayer, or Preaching 
without Prayer, &c. 5. What if the Church be but fchifmatical ? Have 
you written all this Book, to draw men ta you from the Independant 
Churches, and do you now tell us that the people may not feparate from 
them, on the account of Schifm? 6. Whatif a Church require me to tell 
orfubfcribetooneknownLie, or to fay, that I believe vvnat I do not.- or 
to juftifie thoufands that I think obliged by a Vow, if they break it t 
What if they impofe any one fin on me without which they will not receive 
me to Communion . ? 7. What if I remove for my Edification from a drun- 
ken ignorant Prieft, to the Church of a wife and holy Pallor f 8. Are we 
loofer than Pope Nicholas that forbad men to hear Mafs from a Fornicating 
Prieft ? 9. I would you had fpoken to Edification and told men whatp//^ 
Dotlrine it is that will allow Separation^ and whether it's falfe Doctrine preach- 
td, or only impofed t on the perfon to be owned t If the former, is it all 
falfe Dotlrine or but fine, and what f Verily, if alJ, you are tenfold more 
a Seperatift than 1 ; For I look to hear fometimes fome words of falfe Do- 
ctrine in moll Pulpits, even of Gonformifts ? If it muft be herefie it felf, 
I will not feparate for once hearing it, if the Church profefs it not. If it 
be impofed Error that you mean, take heed left you juftifie Separation 
from your Church, by the new Article of Infants certain Salvation. And 
whenboth Arminians and Anti- Arminians fubfcribe the 3^ Articles, tell us 
whether thofe Articles are true in both their fenfes,or whether the fence be 
not the thing fubfcribed ? or whether one half of them fhould feparate* 
You are too unmerciful to your felf; but what kind of Churches fhould 
there be upon your terms ? 1 find no more in his fecond part which I am 
much. concerned in. 

Chap* 



C99] 

C H A P. VIL 

77?e fyply to his Third Tart : 77^ beginning! 

Sett. i. TN his third Part Ifirftfindmy felf accufedp.242,^. Andthat 
1 is not only by infilling on a falfe accufation of my words, 
but adding a confutation of himfeif, as if he difcerned not that he did it. 
In Treat, of Concord I fay, [_If it holdeththat God inftituted only Congregati- 
onal or Parochial Churches ,as for prefent Communion ,t hen none of the reft inftitu- 
■ted by man may deprive them of their priviledges granted by Chrift. ~] I put it but 
with an (If it befe) becaufe I told them my own doubt of it. After 1 fay, 
[To devife newfpeciesof Cnurches without Gods Authority, and impofe them on the 
World j yea in his name^ and call all Viffenters Schifmaticht is worfe Vfurpation 
than to make and impofenew Ceremonies and Liturgies.'] And can any Chri- 
ftian deny either of thefe ? But he faith, [This fuppofeth Congregational 
Churches to be fo much the inftitution of Chrift ', that any conftitution above 
thefe is unlawful and unfupport able .•] which is more than the lndependant 
Brethren daajfert. And is any word of all this true ? 1. The Indepen- 
dants much infill on this ? 1 refer him now but to Amefn Medul. deEccl. 
Mnift. 2. Do the words fuppofe that which is plainly excepted in them ? 
If it were granted. 1. That the Congregational only are fo inftituted. 
2. And that others are not fet over them by God, 3. And yet are obtru- 
ded in his name, without his authority. 4. And all DhTenters called Sch if- 
raaticks,] then I fay they are unlawful. 5. To coufute himfeif plainly 
he confelTeth that I fay, The queftion is not whether the Archbifhops ft.ould 
be over the particular Churches, as Succejfors to the Apoftolic aland General 0- 
verfeers of the fir ft Age in the ordinary continued parts of their Office. Nor 
whether Patl'mks,Diocefans y Lay-Chancellors as Officers of the King,exercifin£ 
Magiftracy be lawful. ] And yet he faith that I fuppofe the contrary. 
He next pretends to give my Reafons : And the chief is, becaufe it over- 
tbroweth the fpecies of Gods making *, when I only fay, That which over- 
throweth it is unlawful •, which is not the Archbifhops that are over the lower 
Biihops, but thofe that put them all down, and governed the Carkafles 
of the mortified particular Churches as the loweft Bifhops of many fcore 
or hundred fuch as themfelves. And he faith I am for the full exercife of 
Difcivline within the particular Church •, while he confeft I fpake not a- 
gainA Archbifhops. And yet he faith,7lW$ is a fair reprefentation of my opinion. 

O z Sett. 



SeB. 2. Coming to prove our Epifcopacy the fame with the Primi- 
tive he pretendeth to confute me: That which I aflerted was, i. That 
by the firft Inftitution, and Constitution, every Church no bigger for 
number of Souls than one of our great Parities had a Bifhop of their own, 
(one or more I difputed not.) 2. Yea that for the firft two hundred 
years if not more, no one Bifhop had a Church fo big as fome of ourPa- 
rifhes, at leaft except Alexandria, and Rome, and even of them it is not 
certain that they had more Souls. 3- That after by degrees the cafe was 
altered : But yet after there were many Meetings like Chappels, a while 
there was but one Altar. 4. After that thofe Ghappels had Altars ; but 
fo as that at certain times of the year, the people of the Cities and next 
parts were all to communicate with the Bifhop, and were no more than 
could meet to choofe the Bifhops, and to be prefent as to the main body 
of them, and difciplinary debates, to give confent. 5. In Cyprian's time 
at Carthage fa place of greatnefs and great numbers of Chriftians) the 
Church was grown very great, but not beyond the exercife of fuch perfonal 
Communion as I defcribed : And the Bifhops there and round about be- 
ing worthy men, kept up the life of the former Difcipline. And as great 
as their Church was, we would be glad of fuch an Epifcopacy, Order 
and Commnnion. For I oft told you, that by present Communion, I meant 
not that all muft meet in one place at once, (For the tenth part of fbme 
Parifhes cannot : ) But that as Neighbours and Citizens, may have per- 
fonal Converfe and Meetings per vices, of fome at one time and fome at 
another, as different from meer mental Communion, or by Synods or 
Perfons delegate, or as their Governours or Reprefentatives, and this for 
mutual Edification in holy Doctrine, Worfhip and Conversation. And 
that the footfteps of this remained long, when worldly Reafons had 
made a change. 

And all this I have proved fo fully in my Treatife of Epifcopacy be- 
fides what's faid in my Abftracl: of the Epifcopal Hiftory, that till fome 
man fhail confute the full Evidence of Antiquity there brought, I have 
no more in Reafon to do upon that fubject. And though the Doctors 
Hiftory of this be the molt confiderable part of all his Book, yet fo far 
doth he leave what I fay uncontradicted, that I find not one word that he 
faith againft any of my Teftimonies, nor any for his own caufe, for the 
firft two hundred years: But when hefhould have proved the extent of 
the Churches at two hundred years, he begins his hiftorical Proofs at 
two hundred and fifty for three or four great Cities in the World, and 
fo proceeds to Aiignftine at above four hundred, and Fiftor Vtkenfis a- 
bout four hundred and ninety, Theodoret four hundred and thirty, (where 

he 



D*S3 

he fuppofeth me to fay that of his City ? which I faid of the Diocefs 
of that City: J And to confute all Impertinencies, and groundlefs Sup- 
pofitions, while my full proofs are unanfwered, is but lofs of time. 

Sett. 3. His chief argument is, {that no City how great foever was to have 

more Bifhops than one. ~] Anf. 1. He can prove no fuch Rule in the firfl: two 

hundred years. 2. See how well the defenders of Prelacy agree ? Grotiiss 

(& de Impeno & in Anotat. ) and Dr. Hammond I cited.who fay that Cities at 

firft had two Biihops in each (Rome, Antioch, &c. ) one of Jewifh 

Chriftians, and one of Gentile Chriftians, and faith D. hi. Peter at Rome 

was Biihop of the Jews, and Pauloi the Gentiles, and they had two Suc- 

ceflbrs ; and faith Grottus The Churches were formed to the manner of 

the Synagogues , and there were divers Churches with divers Bifhops in 

the fame City (in 1 Tim. 5. \^.& delmp.p. ^^^ 356,357.) 3. In the 

fourth Century a Council at Capua decreed that the two Biihops with their 

feveral Churches at Antioch( Flavians and E^^n/^)fhould live together in 

Love and Peace. 4. This was a good cuftom while there were in the Cities 

no more than one Biftiop might take care of : And the cuftom held when 

times altered the cafe and reafon of it : And PoflefTion and the Defire to 

avoid divifion made it held up by good men. 5. I have at large in my 

Treatife of Epifcopacy confuted the opinion of appropriating Biihops 

to Cities •, and fo did the old Churches that fet up Chorepifcopos. 

Sett, 4. p. 259. He faith, {In Cities and Diocefes under one Bifliop were 
feveral diftintt Congregations and Altar s.~\ Anf. 1. Yes, no doubt, after 
the fecond Century, and perhaps in two Cities a little before •, but in few 
in the World till towards the fourth Century. 2. This is the fame man 
who in the very Sermon which he defendeth faid [p. 27. Though when the 
Churches increafedthe occafional Meetings were frequent in feveral places, yet 
ftill there was but one Church, and one Altar, and one Baptifm, andone Biflwp, 
with many Presbyters ajfifiing him : And this is fo very plain in Antiquity, as 
to the Churches planted by the Apoftles them f elves in feveral parts, that none but 
a fir anger to the hifiory of the Church can ever call it in que ft ion. ~\ But when I 
told him how this would agree us, and hurt his canie, he will quickly fall 
under his own cenfare, and became \_a ft ranger to the hifiory of the Church'] 
alTerting many Altars in one Church of one Biihop. This Sermon was 
written fince his Irenicon. And now he feigneth a di (Unci ion between 
{An Altar taken with particular refpettto a Biflwp : and for the place at which 
Chriftians didcommunicate.~] But what was the Altar that was taken with 
particular refpeft to the Bifhop ? Was it notthe material placeof Com- 
municn? And fo the members of the diftin&ion are co-incident. Saith 
Optatus lib. 6. Quid eft Altar e vifi fedes & corporis & fanguims Chrifti ? Each 
^ Church 



C to* ] 

Church had long but one of thefe. The belt Altars that Were made after 
the chief Church Altars were not for ordinary communion, but homH 
rary of fome Martyrs. The truth is , the phrafe of mum Akarc 
was taken up when each Church had but one *, but to fet up Altarc 
tontra Aha; e continued after to fignifie Anti-Churches. But I have fully 
anfwered this in my Treatife of Epijcopacy. His conje&ures from the 
numbers of Officers, &c. he may fee there alfo fufficiently confuted and 
in Ch. Hift. And the odd inftance of iheodoret he doth not at all make cre- 
dible by his willing belief of Metim and other PopiQi Feigners. And 
were that Epiftle genuine a Cypher is eafilydropt in by Corrupters : It 
h ath need of better authority that mail be fo lingular from the cafe of all 
other Churches. And I fuppofe he knoweth that Cyrus was not afimple 
Bifhoprick, but a Metropolitane Seat, and might have 800 Parilh Bifhops. 

Yea whereas there were under Antioch feven Dioceles, and fifteen Pro- 
vinces or as others fay thirteen, that yet had many Bifhops under them, 
as Seleucia twenty four. &c. that were more dependant on Antioch, Cy- 
rus was one of the eight Provinces or Metropolis that were per fe fubfifientes : 
And therefore when Theodoret faid how many Churches were under hands, 
it's like he meant Biihops Churches and not meer Presbyters, and either a 
Cypher dropt in corrupted the account (or elfe the Bifhops had but fingle 
Congregations •, But for my part as the cafe fo late concerneth me not, £q 
I fee nothing to perfwade me that that Epiftle is genuine and uncorrupt.But 
I would not have a Diocefs which then had many Provinces, or a Province 
which had many Bifhops Churches, be taken for a fingle Church. 

Sell. 5. The fame I fay of Carthage, which was the Metropolis of A- 
frica, and the firft of fix Provinces before Jufiinian^nd of feven after, and 
Proconfular, and the Church called Africa Caput as Auguft. ep. 162. The 
fixth and feventh Carthage Councils tell us of the diftribution of the Pro- 
vinces, decreeing three Judges to be fent out of each Province, viz. Car- 
thage,Numidia,Byz J acena i Mauritania y &c. Yea Leo Q.P.inEpift. adThom.&c, 
iaith that the Bifhopof Carthage was pofi Pont. Rom. primus Archiepifcopus 
& totius Africa maxim us Metropolitans, ( Though yet Binnius truly fay that 
in Cyprian's time he was not an Archbifhop, that is, no proper Gover- 
nor of Bifhops, becaufe they concluded in Co\mci[>nemonoftrum dicitur E- 
pifeopus Epifcoporum •, but he was the chief of that great Province. And 
the Dr. himfelf out of Victor mentioneth one Creffeus that had one hun- 
dred and twenty Bifhops under him : He was Metropolitane of Aquitana 
and a Diocefs then having many Provinces-,how many be in a Diocefs Victor 
there tells yon that the Bifhop of Carthage in his own Eugitane Province had 
one hundred fixtyfour Bifhops. And how great were their Churches then ? 

and 



andL. 2. when he lamenteth the great number of their baniftied, Bifhops, 
Presbyters aud the Church-members were 4976. And oneParifh here hath 
40000 if not more. He that confidereth that Cyrm was at moft but 60 miles 
from Antiocb the Patriarchal Seat,and that a Carthage Council had fometimes 
600 Bifhops,and the Donatifts perhaps had as many ; and that as he faith, 
Crefceus had one hundred and twenty Bifnops under him , and that Cy- 
prian fo often tells us how Bifhops were chofen by all the People, and 
how he managed his Difcipline in the prefence of ail his Plebs, (Laity) 
and by their confent ; and how he telleth that it was the peoples duty 
to feparate from the communion of a finning Bifhop f which implieth 
communion before) and how the Bifhops in Council put the queftion, 
When a Church wanted a Bifhop, whether one of them that was a Bifhop 
and had perhaps but one or two or three Presbyters was bound to part 
with one to that wanting Church to make.a Bifhop of? aud confidereth 
the circuit and diftance of their Cities, and much more which I have 
elfewhere named, may well believe large Provinces, and larger Diocefles, 
but will think of their Bifhops Churches as we muft do of theirs in Ire- 
Und, when a late converted Countrey had fix hundred Bifhops. Make 
but Chrifts true difcipline practicable, and tie us not to fwear or aflent 
to your uncertain forms and we fhould«wo further trouble you in this. 

Sett* 6. As for the credit he giveth to Syrm ondrf% copy of Theodore^ 
Epiftle, or to the later Editions of his Works, I am not bound to be 
as credulous, nor to take the laft Editions for the belt, when they come 
out of the Jefuits hands: And can prove the Epiftle to Joh.Antioch^ which. 
Be/Iarmwe w r ould difprove, to be more credible than this : And it's one 
blot that he faith Ibeodorefs Epilt. 6. mentioneth the Metropolitane he 
was under, when he was under none^ but was himfelf an Independant 
Metropolitane : For fo the NotitU Epife. tells us, was Berytns, Heliopolis > 
Laodicea, Samafata y Cyros y Pompriopofa, Mopfucftia and Adama. If his 
Province was as the Epiftle cited faith foitrty Miles fquare,. andtheChrifti- 
ans fo numerous asisfaid, and he name none of the Bifnops under him, 
but number the Churches,it : s like they were Epifcopal Churches and very 
fmall. Andthat Filiates badChurchss it's no wonder when there were many 
Chorepifcopi not only under the Metropolitans but the City Bifhops . And 
why 1 muit reject his long received AVork if 1 queftion his late found Spi- 
ttles 1 know not.But again I fay,this is nothing to our caufe, being fo long 
after the ages 1 mentioned,& my contrary evidence beingnot at all confuted 

His confidence p. 260, 26 1 . about fome citations out of Tbeodoret, runs 
fcpon falfe Infinuations : 1. That the queftion is not of the number of 
Churches, but about the extent of the Epifcopal Power, whether it was 

limited 



[to4] 

limited to one Parochial Church, or extended over many : when he know- 
eth that 1 had no fuch queftion •, but whether thofe whofe power was 
over many Churches in the firft two Centuries at lead, had not as many 
Bilhops under them over thofe Churches (if fuch there were.) Or if the 
Bilhops were of the loweft rank, whether thofe under were not then de- 
ny ed to be Churches for want of Bilhops, and were not only parts of a 
Church T 2. And he feigneth me to bring Theodoras Testimonies to 
prove that even then in Alex, and Antioch a Church was but one Congre- 
gation, when I brought it only to prove, that even in that age they were 
fo fmali, that the footfteps of the ancient (hape of themftill appeared. 
Such Fi&ions may deceive them that will not try what is faid, but only 
read theanfwerer. But by this citation I fee he read my Treatife of £- 
fife, before his Book came out. And therefore 1 will pafs by thefe nib- 
lings till he anfwer it- 

Sett. 7. />. 26 2. He accufeth me of [Rage and Bitterttefs] for faying 
that [if he will plead for fo much Frefumption, Profanation of Gods name, 
Vfurpation, Vncharitablenefs and Schifm y as to own their Churches to be new 9 
anddevifed without Gods Authority , and yet may in his name be impofedonthe 
World, and all Dijfenters called Schifmatickj,~\ I leave him. And firft he 
feigneth that 1 charge him with this* which is untrue, unlefs he will charge 
himfelf with it. But why do I put in [If you wllfo plead.~\ Anf. Becaufe 
he accufed me for faying the contrary, viz* [that fo to divife, and fo 
to impofe, U worfe> &c. But becaufe I know not why he accufed fo plain a 
truth, I faid Sjf you dofo,"\ But he now tells me that he (quoted it tofhew 
that I looked on all Churches beyond Parochial, as Churches meerly of mans de- 
vifwg,) which is another untruth confeifed by himfelf, who before had 
this up ancf cited my own words to the contrary ; «bc. that I believe the 
Catholick Church and deny not National aflbciated Churches •, nor Arch- 
bifhops that put not down the particular Churches ) Pafl:ors and Difcipline : 
one miftake is his excufe for another. Had he meant as aforefaid, had my 
words been Rage,or neceifary confutation .? 

Se U. 8. Yea it is his bufmefs in the very next page 16 3 to confute his 
own accufation of me by citing my own conceilions. And p. 264. he 
giveth me leave to call our Bifhops Archbifhops. Anf. But 1. Archbi- 
fhops have Churches with their proper Bifhops under them. But our 
Bi(hops fay that there are no fuch under them. 2. I told you before that 
as the Major General, Quartermafter General, &c. of an Army confti- 
tuteth not adiftindt body from the Army and the particular Regiments 
and Troops, fo I am not certain that Apoftles or Evangelifts or any ge- 
neral Preachers as fuch, did conftitute any ChurchFonn diftinft from the 

Catholick 



• C 105 1 

Catholick and the particular Bilhops Churches ; But if they are fuppo- 
fed to have taken their feveral fixed Provinces (which I never faw pro- . 
ved) I will not contend whether thofe Provinces may be called Churches. 
If we agree about the thing, life the name as you fee caufe. 

Sett. 9. And to your talk of our Bilhops being of the fame fort, I ask 
you whether any of the Bifhops for 300 years, or for long after fave 
Cyril Alexand. by violence, did ever ufe or claim any power over any 
Minifters or Chriltians, befides meer fatherly Teaching, Perfwading, 
urging Gods Word on them, and applying it to the confciences of par- 
ticular Perfons by Admonitions, verbal Cenfures and Abfolutions? Did 
they meddle by Force, with Body or Purfe ? Let your Bifhops ufe no o- 
ther force or way of conftraint than the Apoftles did, (if they be their 
Succeflbrs) and not lay the excommunicate in Prifons and ruine their 
Bodies and Eftates, & valeat qmntum valere potefi. But Mr. Glanvile 
and many of you tell us, how little you care for it without the 
Sword. 

Sell. 10. If any man will but confider what I cited out of Greg. Nazj,- 
arisen that faith Men unfit were fo ambitious to be of the Clergy, 'that the 
Clergy was in many Churches almoft as many as the Laity ; And that Pres- 
byters then were much like the Presbyterians Elders, fave that they 
had the power of Word and Sacraments though they feldom exercifed 
Preaching in Cities, but left that to the Bilhop *, and that the number of 
their Acoluthi, Exorcifta, Oftiarii, Lettores, Snbdiacom, Diacom, &c. made 
up the great body of them. And the very Boys and Schollars that were 
bred up under them, yea or but for Church-finging, arefometimes joyn- 
cd to make upthenumber,fee Jfidor. deOffic. Eccl. L. 2. even all the Monks, 
are often numbred with them. And Vtihr cited by him feemeth to num- 
ber twice the Infamdi fo bred up with the great number of Readers, to 
theC*rthage Clergy, I fay he that confiders all this, will not judge of the 
number of people or Churches by the number of the Clergy, as he would 
do now with us , where the great Parhhes have but two or three 
Prkfts. 

Sett. 1 1 . And as to the caufe that I plead for, it is enough that T have 
proved that even when the name of Bilhop was confined to the Epifcopi Pa- 
ftorum y yet the Presbyters had the power of the Keys, and were Epif- 
copiGregis^ and exercifed this power in their diftantCountrey aflemblies, 
though under the Bimop, and the Bifhop was to exercife his with them 
as Afliftants - (6 that the particular Churches were not reallyunchurched. 

Sett. 12. p. 265. He cometh nearer our controverfie, but firlt fahly 
ftateth the queltion, fuppofing that I fay that (the whole power of the Pres- 

P hytcrs 



byters is fwallowd up by the Bijhops.) And is the difputing of a queltion 
falfly ftated of any profit ? I only faid that the office of a Church-Paftor 
or Presbyter hath three efTential parts, viz.. the power of Teaching the 
Church, of conducting them in Worlhip, and Governing the people by 
the ufe of the Keys. And that he that deftroyeth one part that is elTen- 
tial (though he fwallow not up all the power) altereth the eflence of the 
Office : and that fo the Englifh Diocefan Form doth, I have largely pro- 
ved in my Treat, of Epifcopacy which he doth not anfwer. 

Sett. 13. 1 . He tells us that the Presbyters are the lower houfe in the 
Convocation, and fo have their Votes in pajftng all the Rules of Difcipline^ 
Articles of Dottrine and Forms of divine Service. ~] Anf. 1. According to 
his defcription the Church of England hath no one EccleJiafticalG 'overnment ^ei- 
ther Monarchical or Ariftocratical or Democratical : And therefore the 
Acts of the Convocation are no Acts of governing the Church of Eng- 
land , but meer Agreements. Therefore this proveth not the Presby- 
ters power of governing it. 2. If this be a part of Government 
it is the Legifhtive Part or the Executive. The later it is not. The former 
the Lawyers fay it is not *, King and Parliament only being Legiflators. 
But if this be Legiflation, we deny it to be any of the power of the 
Keys, in queltion, which is but to judge who is fit or unfit for Church- 
communion,to Admonifh, Abfolve or Excommunicate according to Chrifts 
Law } and is the execution of Chrifts Law,and not the making of new Laws, 
3. It is lis fubjudke whether the things here named be any part of true 
lawful Church-Government. 1 Rules of Difcipline Chrift hath made 
enough, except about meer mutable Accidents. Articles of Do^rine 
man muft not otherwife make, than to declare what he believeth Chrift 
hath made. Forms of Divine Service commanded to all others, the Apo- 
files never made, nor that we find appointed any others to make them. 
If thefe be lawful by way of agreement of many Churches, this is none 
of the Power we fpeak of. Yet he calls this [fib of thegreatejl Rights of 
Government^ viz. making Rules for the whole body , which he denyeth to 
have any conftitutive Government. 

Seci. 1 4. He faith, [In this main part of Government our Church falls behind 
none of the ancient Churches — only there they were taken fingly in every City^ &C 
Anf That is, 1. When the Minifters of a Diocefs choofe four, out of 
whom the Bifhops take two, And 2. This only to make agreements,with- 
ant any governing power over the Church of England, 3. And this on- 
ly about" general Regulation. 4. In either unlawful or doubtful Impoii- 
tionson others about meer Accidents or Circumltantes of Order; This is 
the lame or as good as, when every true Church hath prefent Paftors 

perfonaHy 



C 107] 

perfonally toexercife the executive Church- Government called the Keys, 
by the Laws of Chrift already made, in judging the cafe of each parti- 
cular Perfon , as to his Title to Church-communion and the King- 
dom of Heaven. For that is the thing which by us is pleaded 

for. 

Sett. 1 5. Next he tells US of four that are to joy n in Ordinatiom and Exa- 
mination, when 1. It is not the making or governing of Pallors which 
Iamfpeaking of, but the Government of the Flocks. 2. He know- 
eth thatitis no ftrange thing for our Bi(hopsto fay, that both in Convo- 
cations and Ordination, the Presbyters aft only as the Bilhops Council, 
and the Bifhops only aft by governing authority. 3. I never difputed 
for Presbyters Power to ordain as efTential to them f nor did I ever med- 
dle in any Ordination.) 4. If four Presbyters have fuch power that pro- 
veth not that four hundred have it, that never exercife it, in the fame 
Diocefs. 5. If by all this you mean that really Presbyters have the go- 
verning Power of the Keys, it condemneth thole the more that give it to 
four and deny it to four hundred or one thoufand. 6. When I was or- 
dained none examined us but the Bilhops Chaplain, and two or three City 
Minifters called by the Bifhop that never fawus before, meerly fro form* 
laid hands on us with him. But it's well that you give fuch a power to 
ordain. 

Sect. 16. Next p. 267. he comes to the point in queftion, whether 
they have the Paftoral Power of the Keys over their own Flocks ? And 
I . He faith, One would thinkjbe objettor had never read over the office of Or' 
dinationfor them. For the Eptftle is read, the Charge given by St. Paul u 
the Elders at Miletus Aft 2p, or the third Chapter of 1 Tim. concerning the 
Office of a Bifhop. What a great Impertinency had this been, &c ? Anf. This is 
like the reft. I mult not fuppofe that he never read it himfelf. Sec Rea- 
der, whether any of thffbe true ? Indeed heretofore it was in the Book 
of Ordination - but we (hewed the Bilhops that thence Bifhop Vffier in 
his Reduction argued that the Presbyters have fome conjunft Power with the 
Bilhops to govern their own particular Flocks, and fome true Paftoral 
Power of the Keys (I was one that oft urged it on them.) And they 
told us that the Bifhop was the Paftorand they but his Curates, and to 
confute US, put out both thefe parts of Scripture from the Book^which he faith 
are in it •, fo that neither of them is there : And prefently they alfb put 
out the very name of Paftor given to Parifh Minifters, in almoft all places 
of the Liturgy. Doth not all this fhew their mind ? 

Sett. 17. Next he tells us of the Bifhops Exhortation, calling them 
\jhc Meffiengers, Watchmen, Paftors and Stewards of the Lord.^ Anf. It Was 

P 2 ' fo 



[ 108 ] 

fo in the old Book, But the word (Pafiors) here alfo is purpofely put 
out to (hew their judgment. Is this juft dealing , And doth it not confute 
himfelf? 3. He tells US of the Promife to Minifies Doctrine, Sacraments 
and DifcipHneJ\ Anf The truth is neither in the exhortation nor colla- 
tion of Orders, is there any mention of any power given him to govern, 
but only to adminifter the Wordand Sacraments : and thus far the peo- 
ple are called his charge : But in the queftion, Difcipline is named thus 
[as the Lord hath commanded^ and as this Church and Realm hath received the 
fame, according to the Commandements of God : ] fo that 1 . The Prieft here- 
by OWneth that as it is receivedinthis Church and Realm it is according to Gods 
Commandments, and 2. Then promifeth fo to ufe it : which is 1. To be 
an Accufer, 2. And as a Cryer to publilh the Bi(hops or Lay-Chancellors 
Excommunication and Ahfolutions. This is the promife. 

Seek. 1 8. And what if the name of Government or the Keys had been put 
in , when it is denyed in its elfential part ? I have proved out of Coufins 
Tables, Zouch y and the Canons and actual Judgment and Practice of the 
Bifhop., that Government or Jurifdiction is denyed to them : And in- 
ftanced in many and moftadts in which it doth conlift, in my Treatife of 
Epifcopacy. And this being my queftion, ("whether the Eagliib frame 
depofe not the ancient Churches (which had every one their own Paftor 
with the power of the Keys) and fo the ancient Offices and Difcipline.) 
I am not now concerned about the General Archiepifcopal Power of the 
Diocefans. 

Set?. 19. p. 269. He faith (that while the Apoflles lived it is probable then 
were no fixed Bifltopf, or but few.) Anf. Mark this Reader, u If fo, then 
while they lived, there were but twelve or thirteen Bilhops in the World,. 
if any. And were then no more Churches that had governing Pallors ? 
2. Then if it cannot be proved that the Apoflle^were fixed Bifhops, but: 
ambulatory Apoltles, there were none in the \rorld in their times. 3. 
Then the Angels of the feven Churches were Apoftles (reprehended l.y 
Chiift) or meer Presbyters, or of the few excepted B (hops. Why 
then doth he himfelf elfewhere argue that there were Bilhops then, becaufe 
thefe Cities were Metropoles ? 4. See what concord is between the chief 
Doctors of the Churchof England. Dr. Hammond faith that it cannot be 
proved that there were any Presbyters but Bitbops in Scripture times : 
and fhppofeth theEpifcopal Party of his mind. This Dr. faith, (It's 
probable there were no fixed Bijlwps, or but few* And fo they differ. 1 . Of the 
fence of the Texts that mention Presbyters and Bilhops. 2. And abous 
the guidance of the Churches defatlo in thofe times. 3. And if the Ar- 
pofties were ngt fixed Billiops of fiugle Churches, they have no Sncceilbrs 

as 



C m 1 

a s fuch. If they were we mull have but twelve or thirteen Bifhops as 
their Succefibrs in the World. And which be thofe Seats ? and how prove 
they their claim ? 

Sett. 10. To prove the Parifh Minifters Paftoral Power/?. 272. he tells 
US of that he is judge of the Qualification of thofe that are ta be confirmed. A/if 
1. Had I ever taken a Pariih Charge under them, 1 would have taken 
more advantage from the new Rubrike about this,than any thing elfe.and 
then the Bifhops intended. But 1. There is not one of a multitude con- 
firmed, and defire of Confirmation proveth notanyunderilandingofChri- 
ftianity. 2. And if the Minifter doubt whether they be Ready or capa- 
ble, they may refufe to give him any account. 3- He is to fend in the 
names of fuch as he judgethfit. But 1. it's only when the Biihop Summons 
them. 2. And the Bifhop is no way obliged to confirm no more than the 
Priell appro vcth of. To prove this, 1. Their ordinary pra^ice is to con- 
firm without the Curates hands .• 2. When the Kings Declaration was de- 
bated at Worccfter Houfe i6<5r, before the K. Lords, Bifhops and Mini- 
fters, I laboured almoft only for this that day, to have got in the word 
(Confer*) of the Minifter of the Pariih for fuch as fhould be Confirmed, 
fuppofing that one word would have partly reftored the Parifh Pallors pow- 
er, and fo have made our Biihops tolerable Archbifhops, that if poiTible 
we might have been healed. But the Bifhops rejected it with all their 
might, and got the King to refufe it : But becaufe I laid fo great a ftrefs 
on it, the Lords and others that were to collect and publifti the Concef- 
fions, when we were gone put it in for that time, and at the Convocation 
the Bifhops call it all away. Did they not tell us then their fence ? And 
they call him only the date of the Pariih, and not the Paftor. And 4. 
If this were practicable fonz good m:n would p;actice it, at leaft this 
Doctor himfelf : But I never heard of one that pre-examined his Com- 
municants whether they ^cre ready and willing to be Confirmed. }. And it 
he did, he would keep away many fit Perfons, that fcruple our fort of 
Confirmation. 6. And what is all this to the many thoufand Noncom- 
municants,who quietly remain members oPyour Churches ? 

Sett. 21. As to his wordsp. 275. of power to keep the fcandalous from 
the Sacrament, 1 have in fo many books proved it next to none, and ut- 
terly infufficient, that I will not wall time to repeat all here. 

Sett. 22. Heteils me that in Cxn. 26 is not in Reformatio txgwn Ecchf 
j4nf But I have before told him, how much more and better is, which 
would go far to heal us could we obtain it. He faith that \_any one that hath 
feen them knowethit to be a miftakt, to fay it waipMjhed by Job: Fox. Anf 

His Reader mud be a ftrong believer, and taken uchon his word ; \. I 

ha^a 



[lio] 

have feen them, and fpake with men of great understanding that have feen 
them, that yet judge it no miftake. 2. The Preface of the publifher is 
like his Style. 3. It is called Prtfatio I. F. Andean every Reader know 
thati. F. meanethnoty^Fo*.? 4. Ordinary Tradition faith it was John 
Foxs : And what Ihonid I fooner believe in fuch a cafe ? Inftead of pro- 
ving that they have all a power (to their condemnation) which we fee 
they exercife not, let him procure a real power declared and granted, and 
it will do more than thefe words. 

Sett. 23. But when it comes to the queftion whether me may fo much 
as call a finner to repentance by name before the Church, who reje&eth all 
more private admonition, he puts the queltion, whether the obligation 
to admonifh publicity an offender, or to deny him the Sacrament if he will 
come to it* be fo great as to bear him out in the violation of a Law, made by 
fublkk authority, &c. Anf. The firft queftion is whether Chrift have not 
made his Church fo different a thing from the World, that they ihould 
be openly differenced, by a Communion of Saints ? 2. And whether he 
hath not inftituted an office to judge of this and by Government exe- 
cute it ? And 3. Whether any man have authority to fufpend this 
Law or Office? And then 4. I (hall grant that not only Difcipline, but 
Preaching and Prayer and Sacraments may be forborn hie & nmc in the 
prefent exercife, when elfe the exercife would do more hurt than good. 
5. But are thefe Laws good that forbid it f and fhould we Covenant ne- 
ver to endeavour an Alteration! 

Sett. 24. He next tells us of the great difficulty of exercifing true 
Difcipline, ( which is molt true) and feems thence to defend the forbear- 
ance of it with u>. Anfw- I have in my Treatife of Epifcopacy and 
oft proved that it is of great importance to Chrift's ends, and that he 
would have it continued to the laft, and that the Communion of Saints 
is a practical Article of Faith ; and that making»fmali difference between 
the Church and the World, tends to Church deftruftion, and to the re- 
proach of Chrift ianity, and [he utter undoing of millions of Souls. 

And though Pope and Prelates have abufed it to captivate Princes and 
Nations, the juft nfe of it (he knowethj is mentioned by the Univer- 
sal Church, and vifibly recorded in the Canons of the feveral ages. 
Though fome Eraftians are of late againft it *, And Jefuits aud world- 
ly Proteftants can difpenfe with it when it would hurt their worldly 
Intereft, and turn it chiefly againft Gods Servants that difpleafe and 
crofs them. 

Sett. 25. f* 2S4. He faith , £Ihe mm of Difcipline in the Parifh 

Churches 



Luij 

Churches was never thought by old Nonconformists deftrnttive to the being 
of them* 

Anfw. They did not confound the Tower and the Exercife: Nor 
what the Minifiers office is indeed and from God, and what it is by the 
Bifhops Mind and Rules of Conformity. I fay as they, i . The £.v- 
erctje may be fufpended without nulling the Tower or Policy. 2. 
They are true Paftors and Churches by Gods will, againft the will of 
thofe that would degrade them. 

Sell. 264 But fappofing every man left to his own Consciences for Com- 
munion, 1 . He faith the greateft Offenders generally excommunicate them- 
felves. 

Anfw. 1. And is it your way to leave all the reft to their Conferen- 
ces, and yet to preach and write againft, and lay in Jail diflenting 
godly People that communicate not with you ? 2. And are not all 
thefe Offenders (till Members of your Church ? Albajpineus complain- 
eth of their Roman French Church, that he never knew any further 
caft out than from thQ Sacrament, and left ftill to other parts of com? 
munion as Members *, And fo do you by thoufands who are all Sons of 
your Church ; but we are none. 

He is again at it, what Church I was of and I have told him oft 
enough. 



CHAP. 



[ m ] 



CHAP. V 1 1 1. 

What the National Church of England is ? 

;Sdh. i. A Ccording to the Doflors Method we $ome now to the 
JlV Explication of one of the terms of our Controverfie, fo 
long and loudly called for, viz,, what the National Church of England is, 
which we mufi obey, and from which we are faid to feparate, p. 287. And 
theanfwerisfuchasmay tell Dr. Fidwood and him, that it's time to give 
over wondering that I understood not what they meant by it. 

Sett. 2. Our queftion is of the Church Policy and Political Form. 
All writers of Politicks difference a meer Community y from a Political Bo- 
dy : This is.effentiated of the two constitutive Parts, the Pars Kegens 
and Pars fubdita : the former is much like the Soul, and the later the 
Body. The Ruling Part is called the Form by molt, and the forts (Mo- 
narchkal, Anfocraticaly Democratical or mixt) the form in Specie^ as the 
rational or fenfitive Soul to Animals : But the Relative Form is the V- 
nion of both in their proper order. Such a body Politick is a Kingdom, 
a City, a Church in the proper and ufual fenfe. 

, But in a Ioofe fenfe many other things may be called a Church. As 1 . 
a Community prepared for a governing Form, not yet received. 2. An 
occalional Congregation about Religion fas Prifoners that pray toge- 
ther , Men that meet abouc a Religious Confutation or Difpute, &c.) 
3. Many Churches as under one Chriftian Magistrate as an accidental 
Head. 4. Many Churches alTociated for mutual help and concord, 
without any governing Head : Either of one Kingdom or of many. 
5. Many Churches as meerly agreeing in Judgment and Love, in di- 
stant parts of the World. None of thefe are Churches in the poli- 
tical Senfe, but are equivocally fo called. 

But Politically, j. All the Chriftian World is one Church as formed 
by their Relation toChrift the Head. 2. All fingle Churches that have 
Paltors to guide them in the EfTentials of the Paftoral Office, are true 
Churches, formed by this mutual Relation. Thefe two are undoubted. 

3. The 



( M3 ) 

j. The now Rotnan-Catholid^Church is one by Ufurpation, as in- 
formed by one llfurping head. 

4. A Patriarchal Church is one, as Governed! by a Patriarch. 

5. A Provincial Church is one as headed by the Metropolitan, 
or as mixt where Ariftocratically others are joyned with him. 

6. An Archiepifcopal or Diocefan Church that hath particular 
Churches andBifhops under it is one as headed by that Diocefane. 
( Jure an injuria I difpute not.) 

7. A Diocefane Church of many fcore or hundred Parishes, ha- 
ving no Epifcopus Gregis, or true Paftorsaid Paftoral Churches un- 
der him, but only half Paftors and Chappels that are but partes 
Ecclefw, is one, even of the loweft fort, in their opinion, as head- 
ed by that Diocefane. 

8. A Presbyterian Clafllcal Church is one, as headed by the Claf- 
fes. 

9. A Presbyterian National Church is one, as headed by the Ge- 
neral AfTembly. 

10. An Epifcopal National Church is one, either as headed by 
one National Bifhop, or elfe by a Synod of Biihops Ariftocratical- 
ly , or elfe by a Synod of Biinops and Presbyters Ariftocratical- 
ly. All thefe that are conftituted of One Regent and a fubdite Part^ 
are called Churches in a Political proper fenfe, and not only equi- 
vocally. 

Now the Qoeftion is,, Of which fort is the National Church of 
England ? 

And the Doctor faith, page 287. 1. That the Society of all Chrifti- 
ans is counted a true Catholic!^ Church, from their Vnion and Confent 
in fome common things: and fo is ours-, &c7\ 

Anfo. But in what common things ? Not in one Bible, for fo may He- 
reticks, much lefs in one Liturgy. If it be not a confent in one Go- 
verning Head, it makes no proper Church. 

2. He fuppoleth an agreement in the fame Faith, and under the 
fame Government and Difcipline. 

j4nfxv. That's right: But what Government is it, Civil, or Ecclc- 
fiaftical f The firft is no effential part of a proper Church. If it be 
the later, is it one in fpecie or in individuo politico ? Not the former ; 
for a 100 Epifcopal Churches in feveral Nations may have one fpe- 
cies of Government, as many Kingdoms may have. It is therefore tht 
later that is all ray Qieftion, which is the Church-Head f 

0^ / He 



("4) 

He faith £ As feveral Families make one Kingdom, fo fever al hjfer 
Churches make one National. 

Anfw. True, if that National Church have one Conftitutive Head 
as a Family hath : It's no Family without a Pater or Mater Familias. 
And no Governed proper Church without Governours *, and there is 
no Governour where there is no fupreme in his place and kind.- 
For inferiours have all their power from the fupreme .• There is 
no Univerfal fupreme but God ; but the King is fubordinately the fo- 
preme in his Kingdom in refpeft to inferiours, and fo it is in other 
Governed Societies. 

He addeth [The name of a Church comprehended the Ecclefiafiical Go* 
vernours and People of whole Cities, and fo may he extended to many Cities 
united under one Civil Government , and the fame rules of Religion* 

Anfw. i. If thequeftion were only de nomine, we grant that Ci- 
vil Courts even of Heathens are ufually by Writers called Ecclefi*, 
and fo is any AfFembly. If this be all you mean, fpeak out. 

2. Many Nations may agree in the fame Rules of Religion, yea> 
fo all Chriftians do : Doth this eonftitute National Churches ? 

3. One Civil Government is of another fpecies, and not effential 
but accidental to a Church, and therefore doth not eonftitute or 
individuate it .- One juftice of Peace or Mayor in a Chriftian Cop 
poration, doth not make it one Parift Church. But if this be all 
your meaning, fpeak out : we grant de re a Chriftian Kingdom*, 
arnd contend not de nomine if you call it a Church. 

§. 3. page 297. I. As to the difference of a National Church and 
Kingdom, he granteth what we defire, confefling the difference. But 
asketh [whence cometh all this z.eal now againft a National Church?2 

Anfw, An untrue infinuation. 

i. To defire to know what it is, is untruly called zeal againft it. 

2. And agreeing with you in the defcription is no zeal againft it. 

He adds [The Presbyterians and Mr. Hudfon write for it. 

Anfw. Mr. Hudfon is a Conformift : And the Presbyterians tell 
you what they mean, a Chriftian Nation of particular Churches Go- 
verned by One General Afferably as the Supreme Ecclefiaftical Go- 
vernment. Whether this be juft or unjuft is now none of our que- 
stion. I have oft told what I think of it. Do you alfo tell us which 
is your National Church-power and I have done? Are yon loth to 
be underftood? 

§• 4- But. 



( i^) 

§. 4. But page 299. He cometh to his plain Anfwer, viz. 1. [7he 
National Church of England diffupve is the whole Body of Chriftians in 
this Nation, confifting of Pafiors and People, agreeing in that Faith, Go- 
vernment andworflrip which are eflablijhed by the Laws of this Realm-'} 
And now he [continues his wonder at thofe who fo confidently fay y they 
cannot teR what we mean by the Church of England.] 

Anfw. Yea, your wonder may increafe, that i lefs and lefs under- 
ftand it, if you did not after tell us better than in this unhappy de- 
finition. 

1. Is this called the Church diffufive one Governed body Politick? it 
nor, it is no Church in the fenfe in queftion, and l'le not ftick with 
you for an equWocal name 

2. Do you mean by [Government agreed in. 1. The Civil Govern- 
ment. 2. Or the Ecclefiaftical Government of the particular Chur- 
ches feverally. 3. Or one Government of all the National Church ? 

1. The firft makes it no Church in the fenfe inqueftion. 

2. The fecond makes it no Church, but an Aflbciation of many 
Churches, fuch as a thoufand Independent Churches may make, 
or the Churches of many Kingdoms. Many Families AfTociated are 
no City or one ruled Society if they agree in no Common Gover- 
nours, but only their feveral Family Governours. Many Cities af- 
fociated are no Commonwealth if they agree not in one fupreme 
power. If s no political body without one common Governour, 
Natural or Colk&ive, Monarchical, Ariftocratical or Democra- 
tical. 

And what is it of [Worfiip eflablifloed by Law} that individuates 
your Church ? If all that the Law hath 'eftablifhed. 

1. Your Church hath oft changed its very being, and may do at 
every Parliament. 

2. And the Church is fmall and unknown, if all that differ in 
any point eftablifhed are no parts of it. But if it be not all efta- 
blifhed, who knoweth by this definition what it is, and what is the 
very matter of your Church. So that here is a definition which nei- 
ther notifieth matter or form. 

J. 5. Next he anfwereth the Qieftion, How all the Congregations 
in England make up this one Church?} and anfwereth [By Vnity of 
Confenty as all particular Churches make one Catholick^ } 

Q 2 Anfw. 



( W ) 

Anfw- Confcnt to what? i. If it be not to one common Govern- 
ment, it is no Governed Church, as one. 2. Doth he think that the 
Catholick Church confenteth not to one Governing Head, Chrifl * And 
doth any thing elfe make them formally One Politick body or* 
Church ? This were ill Dodtrine. 

§. 6. Queftion, How comes it to be One National Church? (Saithhe) 
/ fay becaufe it was received by the common confent of the whole Nation in 
Parliaments as other Laws of the Nation are t ] 

jinfw. Whether, {How comes it ?/] Speak of the efficient caufe, or 
the formal, or what, it's hard to knov/, fo lingular are his Logical 
notions. But the firft is moft likely. 4 

And then, 1. The queftion is ftill unanfwered, What is the One 
common Governing power in the Church which this Parliament confent hath 
fa up f He knows this is the queftion. 

2. And if it be bf~ Parliament confent) how old is your Church? 
What Parliament firft made it? It's not fo old as Luther r Is it no 
older than the Liturgy or Canons ? 

j. Doth it die and live again as oft as Parliaments change it? 
If the corruption of one have been the generation of another, how 
many Churches 01 England have you had ? 

4. The whole Nation did not confent by Parliament when the 
Lords and Commons voted down the Bilhops and Liturgy: was there 
then no "National Church ? 

5. How fhail we prove that the whole or half the Nation ever 
meant to put their confent into the hand of the Parliament to make a . 
new Church of England, and to alter it ? 

6. What men make they "may deftroy. May not the Nation with- 
draw fuch confent? and the Parliament unmake their creature? 

§. 7. -Next, p. IOO he faith {The Reprefentative Church 0/ England 
isthe Bi{Ijo?j and. Presbyters' of this Church meeting according to the Laws 

tftfe Realm, to confult and advife about matters of Religion. The 

confent of both Convocations (of Canterbury and Tork, Provinces,) is the 
fcprefentative National Church of England. 

Anfw- i. So here we have a D' ft u five- Church and its Reprefcnta- 
Uftc, but no Government of either, as a Church, mentioned, but 

the Civil. 

2. And they can be no Governors meerly as Reprefenting thofe 
that are no Govsmours themfelves. Not as the peoples Reprejentatives; , 
for they are no Church Govsmours (whatever elfewhere he faith like 

z Brown- 



(H7) 

a Brownifl of the Keys being given to Peter as reprefenting the whole 
Church J Not as the Presbyters reprefentatives ; For, i. They are 
denied Epifcopal power, 2. And they are Governours at molt but 
of their particular Churches, and not of the whole. 3. Not as the 
Bilhops reprefentatives, for 1. They are there themfelves, 2. And 
they are no Common Governours of the whole as fuch. 

y If he mean that the two Convocations when they confect be- 
come the One Common Confticutive Governing Power of the Na- 
tional ChurcH, this is intelligible, but 1. He after denieth any fuch \ 
2. And then their d-iflent would d.flblve the Church, and one Con- 
vocation not oblige it '>, (wich much more fuch. J 

5. 8. But yet he perceivethhe hath notanfwered me, and there- 
fore comes to it, page JOO, faying, [It's a falfe f up p oft ti on that where 
rver there is the true notion of a Church, there mitft be a Conflitutive 

Regent part, . ■ — - a ft an ding Governing power rvb.cb is an ejfential 

partofit.2 x 

Anfvp. A trne notion, belongeth to equivocals ; The true notion^ and 
the proper political notion are words of various ffgniiication. I 
have granted you that the true notion of a Church belongs to a 
Ship-full, a Prifon full, a Houfe-full, of Chriftians as fuch; and to 
our Parliament, and to the Common-Council of the City : But not 
the notion now in queftion. 

2. Is not Government eflential to a Governed Church ? Fixed 
Government to a fixed Church, and tranfient temporary Govern- 
ment to an anf>verable Church? Deny this and few will follow 
you. 

§. 0. He adds, [ (< Which I will prove to be falfe from Mr. B. 
* himfelf. He ailerts that there is one Catholick vifible Church, 
u and that all particular Churches headed by their particular Bi- 
u fhops or Pallors, are parts of the Univerfal Church as a Troop is of 

ct an Array, and a City of a Kingdom. -Then it will unavoidably 

u follow, that -there mull be a Catholick vifible Head to a Catho- 
u lick vifible Church. And fo Mr. Bs. Conftitutive Regent part of 

"a Church hath done the Pops a wonderful kindnefs But there 

$ are fome men in the world that do not attend the advantages 
<! they give to Popery> fo they may but vent their fpleen againft 
ct the Church of England. But doth not Mr. B. fay, that the Uni- 
4t verfai Church is headed by Chrift 5 I grant be doth ; But the 
"Queftion is of the Vifible Church of which particular Churches 

"are 



("8) 

u are parts : And they being Vifible parte, require a Vifible Con- 

* l ftitutive Regent Head, therefore the whole Vifible Church 

41 mult have likewife a Conftitutive Vifible Regent part — This is to 
*' make a Key for Catholicks ? 

Anfw. I am glad he fpeaketh fo intelligibly, in denying a Confti- 
tntive Regent fart ^ though forry that he fpeaks fo ill. 

i. When I have written againft Johnfon, alias Terr* the Papift, 
two Books on this fubject •, efpeciaJly the later fully proving the 
Catholick Church headed by Chrift, to be that vifible Church Ca- 
tholick of which all particulars are members *, Can the Reader 
think I fhould write it over again, becaufe this Do&or will talk 
over a little of the fame with that Prieft, and take no notice of my 
proof or anfwer ? 

2. Doth he believe that the Kingdoms of the World are not vi- 
fible parts of God's Univerfal Kingdom? and yet Godinvifibie? 

3. Dare he fay that all true Churches are not real parts of ChrifiVs 
Univerfal Church, as a Governed bcdy ? and yet are not they vifible ? 
Is it necelTary then that the Univerfal Head nuift be vifible if the 
fubordinate be fo ? 

4. Doth he not perceive that he turneth the Controverfie, from 
the necejfity of a Regent bead, to the neceility of his vifibility ? As if 
our queltion had not been, Which is the Regent yart of the Church of 
England ? but whether it muft he vifible f Is this edifying I 

5. All Chriftians are agreed that the Univerfal Church is Vifible. 
1. In its parts and members on earth, and their profefiion. 2. In 
that Chrift the Head was vifible on earth •, ;. And hath left Vifible 
Univerfal Laws} 4. And hath a Body vifible in Heaven ^ as the 
King is to his Courtiers but not to molt of his Subjects •, 5. And 
will fhortly vifibly judge all the World. Thus far and no further 
(fave as feen extraordinarily to 7W, Stephen, &c) is the Uni- 
verfal Head Vifible. And are we not agreed that this is a real and 
mod excellent Political Church? and that all other Vifible Churches 
are parts of it? Something befides fpleen makes fomemen talkdan- 
geroufiy. 

§. 10. But really doth he think that this doth unavoidably fet 
up the Pope ? Why, firft is there a word of this thatafoberChri- 
ftian dare deny ? or that the Chriftian World doth not common- 
ly confent to ? And do the certain Dodrines of the Gofpel and 
Church fet up the Pope? Will he turn Papift if this be proved, 

and 



( i'9) 

and the Chriftian World be not deceived ? Is this our Champion 
againft Popery now ? I thought no man but Mr. Cheny and fome 
odd Papifts had been of this Opinion? But to Mr. Cheny and a- 
gainft Johnfon I have confuted it, and therefore thither refer the 
Reader. Far be it from me to refift Popery by denying, i. That 
ChriftY Church thus far vifible is one Political body headed by 
himfelf, 2. Or that all true viftble Churches are parts of it. j. Or 
that every Political Governed body is conftituted of the Regent and 
fnbdite farts. Chriftians will reject me for the former, and Politici- 
ans deride me if I hold the laft. 

§. 11. He proceeded!, [«* 2. The plain refolution is, that we 
lt deny any neceffity of any fuch Regent Conftitutive part, or one 
u formal Eeclefraftical Head as eflential to a National Church : For a-. 
<l National confent is as fufficient to make a National Church as an 
" Univerfal confent to make a Catholick.] 

Anfw. No confent maketh a Catholick Church, but confenting.to 
one fupremeHead, Chrift • But I am glad 1 underftand you. 

§ 12. Saith he, [ u Qjeft. By what way this National confent 
"is to be declared ? By the Constitutions of this Church theArch- 
^Bifhops, Bifliops and Presbyters fummoned by the King's Writ, 
4t are to advife and declare their judgments in matters of Religion, 
*' which received and enafted by Parliament there is as great a Na- 
tc tionai confent as to any Law. . And all theBifhops, Minilters and 
" People make up this National Church.^ 

jinfip. Now we are come to the bottom: And, 1. Our queftion 
is of the Conftitution of the Church, and ths Do&or tells us the 
Adminiftration makes it. To confult and advife and make Laws are 
2(fls of Adminiftration, and follow the Conftitution. Men muft have 
Tower before they #/<?*>, and mult be a Church before they aft as a 
Church. 

2 Yea to Advife and Confult are not fo much as atts proper to 
adminiftring Government, but belong to thofe that are no Go- 
vernours* alfo. 

3. If they be no Laws till the Parliament make them fuch, then 
either the Parliament are your Church Hiad, or you have none that's 
Ecclefiaftical. 

But having your plain Confeflion that yon have no fuch Regent 
fart , and fo are no Church Political, (fave Civil ) but a meer Aflbcia- 
tion> I ask. 



( 1.20 ) 

§. 1 3. i. Why do you pretend that we are none of the Church of 
England, or that we vent our fpleen againft it or deny it, who 
deny not AfTociated Churches in England under one Civil Govern- 
ment) 

2. How unhappily are the Church-Defenders and Conformifts 
difagreed? Read Mr. Dodwefl and many fuch others that take the 
Church to be a Governed body Politick^ and fee what they will judg 
of you ? 

3. Are not you and I liker to be of one Church of England^ 
who agree what it is, than you and thofe Bifoops and Do&ors that 
fpeak of two different things, and agree not io much as what 
it is ? 

4. Have you not brought your Defence of the Church of England 
to a fair iflue, by denying that there is any fuch Church , in the 
queftioned political fenfe f 

5. What made you before talk of being under one Government? 
If you meant only Civil? Is your Governed Church as fuch only 
Civil, or a Kingdom only ? 

6. Do you not now abfolve all men from the duty of obeying the 
Church of England as fitch, and from all guilt of difobeying them? 
How can men Govern that are no Governours ? and bow can we 
obey them/ It's only the Civil power then that we herein dit 
obey. 

' If you fay that all the Biihops are Governours, and altogether 
govern the whole ", I anfwer, Yes per panes, but not as a whole 
or Church, If twenty Families in a Village agree as Matters .and- 
Servants, to go one way as Confenters , this maketh no one Go- 
vernment of the Village. If the Phyficians of London confent to 
one Pharmacopeia that maketh them not a body Politick. If twen- 
ty Sea Captains confent to go one Voyage by one rule, each one 
is a Governour of his own Ship, but this maketh no Government 
of the whole. All the jufcices and Mayors* of England rule the 
Kingdom per partes^ by the fame Law : But all together make not 
one Ariftocracy to Govern the Kingdom as One whole. Unlefs 
your Bifhops, cVc are United in One perfona Politica or Ariftocra- 
cy, they may rule their feveral Churches, but they make not one 
common Government for the National Church as fuch. An agree- 
ment of the Emperouf, Spaniard, and other Confederates make not 
one Kingdom or body Politick. 

7. How 



( 121 ) 

7. How can they be Schifmaticks for difobeying them that are 
not their Governours. 

8. How come Diflenters bound by Parliament confent f If it ne- 
ver was in their minds to truft them as Conienters tor them? yea 
and declare their own diffent, as mod of the Nation did lately a- 
gainfl Prelacy and Liturgy, yea and their chofen reprefentatives ? 
Have fuch reprefentatives more power to exprefs our confent than 
we our lelves? 

9. You unhappily erre with Hooker in your popular Politicks, 
if you think that the Laws bind us only becaufe we confent to 
them by our Reprefentatives, or that as fuch they make them. 
Whereas it is as by C wanting in the Conftitntion they are made part 
of the Rulers or Legislators, and not meerly as if we made the Laves 
by them. 

10. And as to Convocation confent, how binds it all thofethat 
never confented to them ? How is the City of London fo bound to 
Conform, when they had not one chofen Clerk ( but only the Dig- 
nitaries,) in the Convocation that made us our Conformity (the 
two chofen by them being refuted by the Bifhops.) 

11. Will not you pafs for an aflerter of the Principles of In- 
dependency, that not only fay, The Keys are given to the whole 
body , and the Convocation reprefent the People, &c. but alfo 
that England is one Church but by confent, without confenting to 
any one Conftitutive Regent Church head. The Indefendants are for 
a National Church meerly by confederacy and confent, without 
National Government of it. 

12. You go further from the Epifcopal Politicks than the Pref- 
byterians do : For they make an jiriftocratical Regent Part, but you 
make none. 

1 3. I doubt fome Statefmen will be angry with you, that fay 
there is no power of Church Government in England, but from 
the King as Head (as Crumpton before Coufws Tables, and others 
ordinarily.) 

14. Do you make England in eflentials any more one Church, 
than England and any Foreigners agreeing are one ? Did the Sy- 
nod of Dort make us one with them ? Do large Councils make 
many Nations one Church ? Did the Heptarchy make England one 
Kingdom, when feven Kings Governed the whole byp4rtt, but none 
the whole, as fuch? 

R is I 



( 122 ) 

15. I befeech you think what you have done againfl the Pare- 
chiaiy Diocefane and Provincial Churches in England. Have none of 
thefe, have not each of thefe a Regent Confi it utive part? Are none 
of them true Churches in fenfu politico ? You dare not fay, No. 
If they are, You have faid that vifible Churches as Parts unavoidably 
require a vifible Head to the whole (by which I bring in the Pope, 
becaufe you think Chrift will not ferve tl^e turn:) And do you 
not fay that all thefe Churches are parts of the . Church of Eng- 
land f And if you deny it to have one Regent part, do \ou not then 
either deftroy the reft, or ufe the name Church equivocally to thefe 
feveral forts fo heterogeneal? 

16. I pray you tell us, from whom our Arch-bifhops receive their 
power ? If you fay from the Bifhops, and fo Inferiours or Equals 
may give power, why may not Presbyters make Presbyters or Bi- 
fhops, and generare fpeciem ? If it mult come from Superiours, the 
Church of England hath none fuch. 

17. If the Peoples confent can make a National Church, why 
may it not make an Independant or Presbyterian Church ? 

18. If the Nations confent, as fuch make the Church of Eng- 
land, it is not made by Legillative power of King and Parlia- 
ment. 

19. Do the Clergy reprefent the King? or is h-e none of the 
Church ? 

20. How prove you that the Clergy reprefent the Laity in the 
Convocation ? 

21. By your Rule, if divers parties of Chriftians agree to fet up 
divers forms of Church-Government, with mutual forbearance they 
would be one National Church. And fo would Epifcopal, Presby- 
terians and Independants if the Law allowed them all. 

22. Was the Church of England the fame thing in the days of 
//. 8. Ed. 6. ££. Mary, Q Eliz.. &c. 

2$. Who maketh National churches in abfolute Hereditary Mo- 
narchies, where are no Parliaments to fignifie popular confent ? 

24. If every Law of Order be effential to your Church, few Con- 
formifts are of it: If only the true eflentials, why are not wealfo 
of it? 

25. How ill agree you with Mr. Cheny, who maketh it Atheifm, 
Infidelity, Blafphemy, Impiety, to aflert Church-making confent or 
confederacies befides Baptifra ? 

26. But 



( l *3 ) 

16. Butthebeft is you leave us in hope of Reformation •, for if 
Parliaments will but confent for us to take down Diocefanes low- 
er, and to reform Parilh-Churches, and alter Liturgy, &c we are 
the National Church ftill. And one prevailing Vote may prove us all 
confenters; and make the Church quite another thing. 

§. 14. Yet he faith [Page 299. By this defcription any one nuy fee 
how eafily ths Church of England /'/ djhnguified from the Ptpifts on one 
fide, an'dthe Diffenters on the other. ~] 

j4nf\v. I am- one, and I cannot fee it, nor fo much as fee how to 
know the Church it felf, nor who is a Member of it, nor how any 
man can know it: but he feems to me to make it a Church wvlfible. 
But I fee the DifTenters mud be none of it. 

1. How was the Church of England known from Papifts, in 
the beginning of H.3. or in the middle, or in the end? orhow known 
when it began ? 

How was it known in the beginning of Qj,een Elizabeths days* 
when the Papifis came to Church * or now as to Church-Papifts f Jiow 
[hall we know to which Church the late Bifhop Bramhall and other 
Doftors belong, who would have the Pope Govern us according 
to the Canons as Patriarch of the Weft, & principium unitatatis urn- 
verfalis, and all go for Schifmaticks that deny it. Some call this 
the New-Church of England, differing from the old one which was 
before Bifhop Laud. 

2. How fhall one know how far confent is neceflary to a Mem- 
ber, and diflent unchurcheth him ? Lately a Doctor was accufed for 
faying he fcrupled to call the King according to the Liturgy, Our 
rnoft Religious King: Mr. Jole of Sarralwzs fufpended for notoftner 
wearing the Surplice, and denying to pray in the Litany for [Our 
moft Gracious Queen Katherine, and James Duke of York. But thefe 
are fmall difTents •, The fenfe is the Churches Law and Doctrine, 
and not the found of words in various fenfes: I have ofc fhewed in 
how many contrary fenfes the Conformifls take the 39 Articles, the 
Liturgy, the words of Subfcription and Declaration, and the Oaths 
impofed ? How (hall one know among all thefe, who are, or are not of 
your Church ? When you tell us that it is Agreeing in the Faith govern- 
ment and Worfhip which is eftabliflied by Law"] and then fpeak fo hot- 
ly againft the need and being of any common Government, favethe 
Civil, at all eftabliflied over the Church as a National vody, and ne- 
ver diftinguifn any neceflary parts of Faith, Government and Worfhip, 

R 2 from 



from the reft, nor tell us how to know them? And when Conformilts * 
diffent in fo many things*, Tome from Lay Chancellours Govern- 
ment by the Keys, fome in the fenfe of the Articles, and theNon- 
conformifts fay they confent to all that Scripture requireth, and the 
meer Circumftantials determined by Law, how (hall you be known? 
Either it is in the Effentials only, or the Integrals alfo, or alfo in 
all the Laws de Accedentibus, that, the Church of England by agree- 
ment is made that One Church. 

i. If it be only in Effentials^ is there either Confeflion, Rubrick, 
Canon, or any Writer that hath told us which be thofe, and all 
thofc, and only thofe Effentials? I never met with man that pre- 
tendeth to know them, and therefore never met with mm that can 
thus tell, whether he be of the Church of England or not ? nor that 
can tell of others, and who is not ? 

2.. To fay it muft b&-confent alfo in the Integrals that is neceffa- 
ry ad effe, is a contradiction : and is to make Integrals Effentials. 
To fay that it muft be confent in all Laws of Occidents alfo, is to 
make that an effential part. which is no part. Our loofe confound- 
ing Difputers, when they have loft the truth in fuch contradictions, 
may fay as Mr. Dodmll doth to me, that I Cavil .• But will that an- 
fwer help down all abfurdities with reafonable men ? it's plain that 
as the Papifts Doftrine of defining Church-Members and Chriftians, 
by no Effential Articles of Faith, but by Probable Propofal of more or 
lefs doth make their Church invifible, fo doth this definition of the 
Church of England by Do^or StUUngfleet make theirs, and leave us 
uncertain who is of it. It makes me think what I heat Oliver the U- 
furper laid to a Biftiop that now is (as 1 am credibly told, iDoclor 
b<m i<now you that -yon are a true Minifies of Chriftf} who anfwercd 
him on Mr. Dodwell's Principles, \_Becaufe I have received Ordination 
by. uninterrupted fucceffive conveyance from true Bijhops, from the Apo- 
ftl'es : 2 Saith he •, Are you jure they were all true Bifhops and the fuc- 
ceffion uninterrupted ? Dotlor will you take your Oath that you are thus a 
true Minift erf} At which when he ftuck, [Come y come , Doclor, faith 
he., there is a furer and a nearer way.} 

Certain I am, that if Agreement in the fenfe of the 39 Articles, 
or in all Forms and Ceremonies be neceffary to conftitute a Member 
©f the Church of England, abundance that fubferibe are none, that 
now go for fuch ; But if not, I pray tell us why fuch as I alfo are 
apt Members, of . your. Church. Do I more differ from you than 

Doftor 



C 1 2 5 -) 

Doctor Heylin, Mr. Thorndiky Mr. Dodwell, and in a word than the 
party which adhered to Arch-biihop Laud, differed from the puty 
which adhered to Bifhop Abbot, Whitgift, and the Parliaments of 
thofe and after-times ? If the Church of England as fuch a one, be 
conftituted by no fupreme Church-Government, we arc all of it, fo 
far as we confent to the Aflbciation, and none as it is one Political 
body. And what then becomes of its Laws, and all theTreatifesof 
its Church-Policy ? 

§. 15. Butyct the Doctor flops not here : J unavoidably irtroduce 
Popery if I make. <* Conftttutive Regent Church power, neceffary to a Church : 
for then the Vmverfai Church mufthave fuch.~\ 

Arfw- 1. it's not necefTary to an equivocal ungoverned Church, 
fuch as our Worcefierjhire Aflbciatioa made : But to a Political Go- 
verned Church it is. 

2. Mark here all you that go the Political Church way, that your 
Doctor accufeth you more than the Nonconformifts, even of certain 
opening the door to Popery, What if 1 had faid lb by you? Is it 
fuch men that thus make you agents for a Pope ? 

$. Doth this Political defcription of Parochial, Diocefane, Pro- 
vincial, Patriarchal Churches, aifo bring in Popery ? 

4. Then either our Archbifhops have no power, or they have it 
from no fuperiour, or elfe they infer a Pope. 

5. I again tell the Doctor as I did Mr> Cheny y It is difingenious to 
fay this to me, when I have written fo much againft Johnfon the 
Prieft, in my firft, and fpecially my fecond anfwer, which none re- 
plyethto, without any confutation or notice of it: 1 have fully pro-, 
vcd that Chrift's Catholick Church hath himfelf for an EfTential Head, 
fometime vifible on earth, leaving vifible Laws, and now vifible to 
the Courtiers in Heaven, and coming vifibly to judge all ^ and there 
is no other. Indeed if the doctrine of Mr. Dodwefl vnd many fuch 
hold, who deny that the power floweth immediately from Chrifts 
Law or Charter to the Church, and not from the Ordainersor E- 
lectors, who do but determine of the Receiver and Inveft him, then 
all the Doctors in England cannot anfwer the Digreffion, Cap. 14. 
of the Book called [The Catholic^ Hierarchy, 1 proving that fuch a 
Prelatical fubordination of Churches, inferreth a Pope : But 1 have 
fully (hewed the vanity of that inference as to us. 

But remember that the Doctor and 1 are agreed, that [A-Nati- 
en cwfeming in an Affociation of particular Churches, may be called 

aNa- 



C ) 

a National Church (equivocally ,) Though it can make no Laws un- 
lefs its confent alfo fet up a Supreme Church-Government. Meer 
Agreementsare not Laws. 

§. 16. He next would make the unwary Reader think that hean- 
fwereth my Queftion, 1. What is the fame 'Rule that all mufl vpalk^by, 

viz. that the Scriptures are the Foundation of our Faith* — 2. But 

our Church requireth Conformity to the Rules anointed by it agreable to 
the word of God*"} 

Anfw. But it feems the Scripture then is not the whole rule, but 
part: the fundamental part. 2. Which did Foul mean? Was your 
Churches Rule then made ? 3. Doth your Church require this ad ejfe, 
or but ad melim efje f If the firft, all Canon-breakers are difmem- 
bred ? And, is that according to God's word ? If the later, why 
am not I of your Church? 4. But how comes that Church to command 
and bind, which hath no fuch Ruling power ? 



CHAP. 



( i%6 ) 

CHAP. DC 

Of the Peoples Consent to the P after al and Church- 
Relation. 



$• !■ T) A g e 307. Saith the Dean, C lt Trw next thing to be con- 

JL w fidered is the intereft and power of the People as to 

t£ the choice of their Pallors, for want of which great complaints 

Ct are made, Mr. Baxter is very tragical on this Argument, 

ct and keepeth not within tolerable bounds of difcretion in plead- 
c < ing the Peoples Caufe againft Magiflrates and Patrons and 
Ci Laws.] 

J?jf\v. 1. That is tolerable to fome men, which others cannot 
bear *, Silken ears mull have foft words ; The Land cannot bear all 
his words, was an old Complaint : And [ Speaks pleafing things, Pro- 
phecy deceit] was an old Mandate- It's no wonder if that fort of 
meD, that mult judg whether our Preaching, and Woiihipping God 
be tolerable, and muft write us down the words which we mult 
fay to God in Prayer, or not be tolerated, do alfo think themfelves 
the meet judges, whether our indifcretion be h.tollerabk. 

2. But let us try whether he (tate this Controverfie any more Lo- 
gically or truly than the reft, and whether he intimate not hurt- 
ful though tollerable untruth. 

1. It's a crooked infmuation, to put the wcrd [Power"] inflesd 
of [Right and Liberty,] us if [Power] of Conferring in the People, 
and [Power of Rulers] were univocal and not equivocal terms: But 
this is tolerable.- For experience hath convinced me, how little Lc~ 
gical ftriftnefs is from this Doctor to be expected : 1 doubt left 
next, as fome men inftead of Learning maintain their reputation 
by deriding it, we may expect fome fuch defence of the Doctors 
Logick, to prove that he is none of the Difoutcrs of this World, who 
deceive men by vain Pkilofephy. 

2. And the word [choice] inftead of [confer:] is fomewhat 
more crooked ; For [choice] ufually includeth the firft nominating 

Vote j 



C ) 

Vote; Andheknoweth that I pleaded for the neceffityofnomore, 
than the Churches confent, though it were fubfequent to the choice 
of Magiftrates or Patrons. 

3. But the next is worfe, that \_I plead the Peoples Caufe againft 
Magiftrates^ Patrons and Laws^\ when I do but defire their Con- 
jun&ion. 

§• 2. His repetitions call me tedioufly to repeat the ftate of the 
Controverfie (abufinefs quite below him.) 

I. I Have oft faid, that God hath not made either Magifirates or 
People the Judges who is fit to be, and (hall be a Minifter of Chrift 
in general - ? but the ORDAINERS and the PERSON himfelf con- 
junct. This is evident, i. From Scripture Inftancesof all that were 
Ordained : 2. From the nature of the thing. 

1. Who isfuppofed fo fit to judge as men and Seniors of the 
fame Office? Who but Phyficians are fit to judge who is meet to be 
a Licenfcd Phyfician? And who but Philofophers judge of Graduates 
and Profeflburs in Philofophy ? 

% And no man can make me a Minifter againft my will, nor 
know me to be fit, if I know my felf to be unfit. 

§. 3. II. I have oft faid that the Supreme Civil Governour is the 
Judge, whom he muft countenance, maintain and tolerate. The proof 
is eafie, 1. Becaufe to doit is his work; and every man muft be a 
difcerning judge of his own work. 2. Becaufe it is a publick a& of 
Government, and he is the chief publick Judge therein. 

§. 4. III. I have oft faid that the Difpofal of the Tythes and 
Temples is in the power of the Prince, and Patron by his grant. But 
with thefe bounds. 

1. His power is not Abfolntc, but Vnder Chrift and limited by him, 
and therefore he hath no power againft him, nor to crofs his Laws or 
to contraditt his ends. 

2. If the Tythes and Temples were given only for publick Teach- 
ers of Catechumens, or for meer Lecturers, the Magiftrate muft dif- 
pofe ofthemtofuch as are capable of that Office. 

3. If the Tythes and Temples were given for the Paftors of the Chur- 
ches, the Magiftrate is bound to give them to fuch as are lawfully cal- 
led to be fuch Paftors, and not by the advantage of his Truft, over- 
throw the way of entrance inftituted by Chrift. 

4. How- 



( I2 7 ) 

4. However if they Were devoted to God, it is God who is the pro- 
prietor, and it's facrilege to alienate them. And an intolerable ill 
difpofal is alienation. 

§. 5. IV. I have oft faid, that it being fuppofed that their An- 
ceftorsgift of Tythes or Glebe and Temples is the reafon of our 
common Patronage and prefenting power, the will of the dead Do 
nors is to be obferved, and their gifts given to none but on the 
termes by them determined.* But their gifts are fuppofed to be 
for the Churches good and not againft it : Nor had they any pow- 
er on pretenfe of beneficence, to deftroy, or to take away more 
than they give : But the Trufting of our Souls Conduft is a mat- 
ter of more weight than Tythes and Temples. If Tythes be pro- 
ved not to be of Divine Right, all that can be expeftedis, that 
if the flock cannot trufl: him whom the Patron chufeth , they let 
him give his Tythes and Temple to whom he pleafe, and they will 
truft their fouls with fuch as they^lare, and fafely may. But if he 
will chufe and offer them one whom they can fafely and comfor- 
tably accept, fo as Tythes and Temples (hall preponderate in cafe 
of fmall difference in the men, prudence obligeth them to accept 
of the advantage. The fame I fay of the Magiftrates countenance 
and approbation. But if the difference be very great, it's better 
ftretch our purfes to build new Temples and pay our Paftors than 
trufl; our fouls on the Paftoral Conduct of ignorant, malignant, 
unfaithful or heretical men. 

S- 6. V. I have oft faid, that mutual confent is neceffary to the 
being of the relation of Paftor and Flecks And though fometimes 
the Rulers impofition, and the Patrons choice, may make it the 
Peoples duty in prudence to confent^ when the good preponderates 
the hurt, (not t\k) yet till they confent % the Relation is not exiftent* 
As if Children were bound to take Wives and Husbands by the 
Command and fore choice of Parents, yet it's no Marriage till they 
conient. 

$. 7. The common objection is from the inconvenience, if the fe- 
veral parties agree not : To which I anfwer. 

1. The mifchief of the contrary way, is worfe than that incon- 
venience. 

2. There is nothing in this World without inconveniences where 
all things and perfons and aftions areimperfeft. 

r * 1. If 



C ) 

j. If Parents and Children agree not about their Marriage, it 
hath great inconveniences*, And yet neither Parents Government, nor 
Childrens conferring Liberty muft be denyed. 

4. In fo weighty a Cafe, divers Locks and Keys keep the Chur- 
ches treafure fafe. Prince, Patron, People and Ordainers, will 
not fo often agree on a vile perlon, as any one of them alone may 
do. 

§. 8. And now judge how Logically, how honeftly the Dodtor hath 
ftated the Cafe, and made me Intolerably indiscreet and tragical a- 
gainft Magiftrates, Patrons and Laws* And try if you can under- 
ftand what it is inftead of this, that he would have: I tell hima- 
gain, that if he deny the necejfity of the flocks confent to the mutual re- 
lation, he notoriouQy oppofeth the judgment and pra&ice of Anti- 
quity and the Univerfal Church, of Princes, Patriarchs, Prelates, 
Councils and People, and fights againft the full ftream of Hiftori- 
cal evidence, for a new crooked way, that would make as many 
modes of Religion as there are different Princes. 

And here he wonders what he faid, that occafiomd fuch undecent 
fajfion. It feems he felt fome paffion in reading it, and thought 
he muft have the like that wrote ir. And fo let any man obtrude 
any pernicious thing on the Church, and he can eafily prove the 
detector to have undecent paffion , for giving a bad Caufe its pro- 
per name. 

$ . 9. But he cannot find out the reafon of my inference, that then 
Princes may impofe what Religion they pleafe.2 

Anfy. Not underftanding, with fome men, goes for confuting : 
To put L Religion ] for the mode of Religion is too little a (lip of 
his to be infifted on. But is not my inference neceffary ? I urged 
him to tell me, in what Countries, and under what fort of Princes 
the Rule holds, that the People muft not judge whether the offer- 
ed Paftors be Hereticks, norrefufe them, if Prince and Patron pre- 
fent them f He will not be entreated to tell me. I tell him, thai 
if the Rule be univerfal, when a Papift, Socinian, Anabaptift, Anti- 
cpifcopal, &c Prince and Patron prefent men of their own mind, 
and they are inftituted, the People muft take and truft them as their 
Paftors : And is not this to fct up in all the Churches what modiih 
Religion Prince and Patron pleafe/ Is this hard to be underftood > 

Yet 



Yet he calls this Railing on him for [ufpofitiorts of my own making. And 
here he fteps over to another man. 

$. 10. Before I come to his undertakings, I will repeat anothers 
railing and undecent paflion againft his Caufe *, And I defire the Rea- 
der to note how well the Doctors of the Church of England agree •, 
and to learn which of them it is that we mult believe, both as to 
Hiftory and Right. It is Mr. Herbert Thomdike in his Treatife of 
Forbearance of Penal. [ u It is to no purpofe to talk of Reforma- 
u don in the Church, to regular Government, without reftoring 
ct the Liberty of chufing Bifhops and the priviledge of enjoying 
"them, to the Synods, Clergy and People of each Diocefs. So evident 
*' is the right of Synods, Clergy and People in the making of thofe 
"of whom they confift, and by whom they are to be Governed, 
iC that I need make no other reafon of the negledt of Epifcopacy, 
<v than thenegledtof it .3 

Yet thefe two are Doftors of one Church, but we are no Mem- 
bers of it. 

§. ii. 1 again fay that either the Reader hath read the Church 
Hiftory and Canons, or not ? If nor, how can he tell who to be- 
lieve that report them? theDo&oror me? But if he have, I will 
no more difpute this Cafe with him, than I would do whether Eng- 
HJh Parliaments ufed to make Laws. He ispaft my conviction if he be 
not convinced. 

§. 12. And I will again fay, that I will yet fuppofe the Dodtor 
fo humble as to acknowledge himfelf much inferiour to Paulas far- 
pi fervita venertwt, in point of Church* Hiftory : At lea ft I fay to the 
Reader, perufe what he hath faid of this Controverfie and of the 
alteration of Church Government in his Hiftory of the Council of 
Trent, and his Book of Church Benefices, lately tranflated by Dr, 
Denton, and doubt if you can. 

§. 13. And in general I add: I. I fuppofe no man of fuch read- 
ing maketh any doubt of the firft 300 years, whether any Bifhops 
were made over any Church withouc the free Election or Confent 
of the Flocks and the whole Clergy, and the approbation of the 
Ordainers. I will #ot for ftiame Itay to prove this, having faid fo 

muck 



( ; 

much of it in my firft Plea for Peace, and Eplfcopal Church Hiftory, 
which are unanfwered. 

II. And (ince the firft $00 years, it's fo notorious in Hiftorythat 
it's a ihame to need proof of it, that the Chriftian Emperours con- 
firmed the Churches in this right and ufe, and for many hundred 
years after, permitted and ordered, that Bifhops fhould be chofen 
by the People, Clergy and Synods, and when the Peoples Election 
was infringed, the neceflity of their confent long continued .* And 
it was only in the choice of the five Patriarchs that the Emperours 
ufed to meddle, and that not always, nor at all chufing them alone, 
but commending fome one to the People and Clergy to chufe, or 
confirming fome one that they had nominated. And this held on till 
Popery fprung up. 

III. And even then the Popes long continued it :■ But, i. They 
ftrove (fpecially in Hildebrand's days and after) againft the Empe- 
rours negative voice in the confirmation of Popes, 2. And his ne- 
gative in Invefting Bifhops : But even in this ftrife, the Ele&ion 
was confeft to be in the Clergy, the People chufing or freely con- 
fenting, and no man to be made their Bifhop againft their will ; and 
it was but the Inveftiture perbaculum & annulum, as a confirmation 
which the Emperours claimed. 

§. 14. I have formerly named elder Teftimonies not denied .• I 
will now recite but fome Canons of Councils. 

i. The 9f/?and 10th Canonsofthe firft great Nicene Council. nul-- 
lifieth the very Ordination of fcandalous uncapable men : And in 
the Arab- Can. 4. Si populo placebit, is made a condition of the E- 
pifcopal relation. Andc 5. in cafe of the Peoples difagreement, the 
faid People muft take the moft blamelefs. 

2. The Roman Council faid to be under Silvefter of 275 Bifhops 
faith, [_No Bijhop Jhall Ordain any Gierke > nifi cum omni adunata Ec- 
clefta, but with all the Church united. If this Council be not cer- 
tain, the very forgers fhew the Antiquity of the Churches right and 
cuftom. 

3. I before named a Council at Capua that decreed that the 
two Bifhops at Antioch chofen by their two Churches, fhould live in 
Love and Peace. 

4. Chryfoftoms Church offoannites would rather feparate than for- 
fake their chofen Bifhop or his honour, though Emperour,Council and 

Patriarch 



( l2 9 ) 

Patriarch was againft him .• and though Cyril Alex, wrote that their 
breach of Canons was intolerable, and to tolerate them (afewftub- 
born Nonconforming) would butdifcourage the obedient. 

5. Even the famous Pope Caleftine who helpt Auftm againft the 
Pelagians Decreed \_Let no man he given a Bifiop to the unwilling : Let 
the fenfe and deftre of the Clergy, the Laity, and Magiftracy (ordwis) be 
required for necefTary .)~\ 

6. How the people depofed Theodofius Bifhop of Synada and chole 
another and the change approved, 1 have eife where (hewed. 

7. After Aniens death the Clergy at Conftantimple were for Philip 
or Proclus, but the people chofe Sifmnius and prevailed. 

8. Sifmnius fent Proclus to be Bifhop at Cyzjcum, but the people 
refufed him and chofe another. 

9. The Orleance Council, 477.540. Can, \. decreeth about Ordain- 
ing Bijhops, Qui praponendus eft omnibus ah omnibus eligatur : as of old, 
viz.* Let him he chofen hy all, who is to hefet over all. 

10. An. 541. The Concil. Avem. decree c. 2. That none feek^the 
f acred Office of a Bifliop hy Votes hut hy merit, nor feem to get a Divine 
Office, rebus fed moribus : and that he afcend to the top of that eminent 
dignity hy the ttetlion of ally and not hy the favour of a few : and that in 
chufing Priefts there he the greatell care, hecaufe, &c» 

Therefore another Council at Orleance decreed that a Bifhop mull 
be ordained in his own Church which he mull overfee. 

1 1. Another Orleance Council decree, c. 10 That none get a Bifhoprick^ 
by gifts or feeding, hut with the will of the King, hy the election of the Clergy 
and the Lay-people. And Can. 1 1. And as the ancient Canons have de- 
creed, Let none he made Bifhop to an unwilling People (or without the Peo- 
ples con fent) Nor let the People or the Clergy he inclined to con fent, hy the 
opprejfion of perjons in power (a thing not lawful to he fpok$n.) But if it he 
otherwife done, let the Bifliof he for ever depofed, &c. 

12. I have formerly cited Pope Gregory I. his exprefs Decrees 
herein. 

15. Clodovtus his Council at Cahilone renewed the old Decree, That 
all Ordination of Biftiops he null, which was otherwife made than by the c- 
Uttionof the Com- Provincials, the Clergy and the Citizens. 

14. The General Council called Quincfextum, an. 691. decreed 
Can. 22. That Biceps and Priefts Ordained with Money, and net hy Exami- 
nation and Eletlion, he depofed : Though the fame Council by humane 
wifdom decreed, Can. 38. That what fcever alteration the Imperial pow- 
er maketh on any City, the Ecclefiaftrcal Order alfo follow it. 1 he way by 

S which 



( i?o ) 

which Humane Order overthrew Divine Order and Initiations. 

1 5. And by the way you may conje&ure of cheChufers by the Coun- 
cil of Toletane, an. 693. under King Egica, where the King Preaching 
to the Bifhops (as was then needful,) decreeth, That every Parijh that 
hath twelve Families have their proper Governour. But if it have lefs 
than twelve, itjhall be part of another* s charge. 

16. K- Pepin (who advanced the Pope to advance himfelf, and add- 
ed the Sword to Excommunication by mifchievous decree, yet) al- 
tered not the common way of Election, and decreeth that every City 
(like our Corporations) have a Bifhop, and none meddle in another's 
Diocefs without his confent. 

17. The choice of Pope Conftantine, the humiliation of Stephen, and 
many fuch inftances (hew that even at Rome ftill the People had the 
greatefthandin chufing the Pope } and that to Communicate with a 
Bifhop irregularly chdfen, was taken for a great fin. And when 
Charles Mag. was gratified as to the Papal Chair, it was but by making 
him a neceflary Confirmer. 

18. The Frfffcfc Conftitutions, /. i.e. 84. objected about this by Ba- 
ronius and Binius, fay, Not being ignorant of the fac$ed Canons, we 
confentedto the Ecclefiajlick^ Orders, to wit, that Bifhops be chofen by the 
Eletlion of the Clergy and People, according to the Statutes of the Canons , out 
of their own Diocefs, without refpetl of perfons or rewards, for the merit of 
their life, and their gift of wifdom, that by example and Word they may every 
way profit thofe that are under them. 

19. The old Canons gathered by Pope Adrian and fent to Charles 
Magn. recorded by Caniftus, depofe a Bifhop, Presbyter or Deacon, - 
guilty of Theft, Fornication or Perjury, And Can. 28. ABtflwpwho 
obtaineth a Church by the fecular power, jhall be depofed. And Can. 33. 
That no one yray with Hereticks or Schifmaticks : Ex cone. Sard. Can. 2. 
A Bifiop that by ambition changeth his feat, jhall not have fo much as Lay 
Communion at his end: That no Bijhop be above three wee\s in another City, 
nor above two weeks from his own Church. Can. 17. A Bifhop contraditled 
(by oppofers) fiiaU not after be ordained or purged by only three Bifhops, 
but by many. 

And Can. 94. The people converted from Here fie by another Bifhop, may 
beiof Sis flocks without removing their ParijJi dwelling where another is 
Bijhop. 

Amongfl the other 80 Canons againfl oppreffion, as one is, That ■ 
no Bifljop judge any Priefi without the prefence of his Clergy, it being void 
if mtfo confirmed;. So another is. againfl: all foreign Judgment, becaufe 

men- 



( i3i ; 

men mufl be judged by thofe that are chofen by themfelves and not by grangers- 
And none of the Clergy muft be condemned till lawful Accufers be prefent> 
and the Accufed anfwer the Charge. 

20. The fecond General Council at Nice, though by fervility they 
were for Images, held to the old Church-Canons for Elections, fay- 
ing Can. 5. * Every Election of a Bifhop, Prieft or Deacon, which is 
'made by Magiftrates, fhall remain void, by the Canon which faith, 
' If any Bifhop ufe the fecular Magiftrates, to obtain by them a Church, 
4 let him be depofed and feparaced, and all that Communicate with 
1 him. 

How much more fay thefe than my \intolerable indifcretionQ I fear 
fome will think that all this binds them to more feparation than I 
am for. 

The 15 Can. forbids them to have two Churches. 

Can. 4. condemneth thofe to Lex talionis, as unfufferably mad,that 
faultily drive any from the Miniftry, and fegregate them from the 
Clergy, or (hut up the Temples, forbidding God's w r orfhip. 

21. By the way, a Council at Chalons under Charles Magn. finding 
fome Prelates fetting on foot an Oath of Obedience to them, thus con- 
demn it: 

c It is reportedof fome Brethren (Bifhops j that they force them 
* that they are about to Ordain, to fwear that they are worthy, and 
4 will not do contrary to the Canons, and will be obedient to theBi- 
c fhop that Ordaineth them, and to the Church in which they are Or- 
c dained v which Oath, becaufe it is very dangerous, we all ordain 
1 fhall be forbidden,] which other Councils after repeat, f yet our 
Bifhops reft much on fuch an Oath of obedience to them.) 

22. What the Electing Churches were may be partly conjectured 
from the Concil. Regiaticin. in Canifius, Can. 6. That the Arch Presbyters 
examine every Mafler of a Family particularly, and take account of their 
Families and lives, &c 

A Council at Soifons about 852. ( a Presbyter by the King's Com- 
mand being Ordained to the Church of Rhemes irregularly; Decree, 
That they that are made Presbyters without examination by ignorance, or 
by diffimulation of the Ordainers, when they are known ft ail be depofed, be- 
caufe the Catholick Church defevdeth that which is irreprehenjible, &c. 

23. An 855. under Lotharius Rennigins Lugd, and others, at a Cou :.- 
cil decreed, (becaufe that bad King had by impofing corrupted tie 
Clergy) c That becaufe Bifhops were fet over the Cities that wei\ 

i tryed, andalmoft ignorant of Letters, and unlike the Apoftolick 

S 2 •fitript, 



(r 3 z) 

c fcript, by which means the Ecclefiaftical vigor is loft, they will pe- 
4 tition the King that when a Bifhop was wanting, the Canonical Ele&L- 
c o n by the Clergy and the People may be permitted, that men of try- 
'edknowledg and life, and not illiterate men, blinded by covetouf- 
c nefs, may be fet Bifhops over the Flocks. 

24. An. 857. Pope Nk. I. isehofen by the Emperour Ludovictu 
confent, and by All the People. And he fo far maketh the People felf- 
feparating judges, as to decree, Tit. 1 i.-c. 1. c That none hear the 

* Mafs of a Prieft whom he knoweth undoubtedly to have a Concu- 
4 bine or fub- introduced Woman. And Can. 2. That by the Canons 

* he cannot have the honour of Priefthood, that is fain into Forni- 

* cation. 

25. An. 1050, (or thereabout) one of the worft of Popes at a 
Council at Rhemes. was conftrained to confirm the old Canon 9 'That 
4 no man be promoted to Church-Government but with the ele&ion 
c of the Clerks and the People, &c. 

26. An* 1059. Again a Roman Council forbidding all men to joyn 
with a fornicating Prieft, maketh them fo far feparating judges. 

27. About An* 1077. A Council at Rome reneweth the Canon, 
nulling all Ordinations made, ant pretio, precibus ant ebfequie, or that 
are not made by the common confent of Clergy and People - for fuch 
enter not by Chrift, &c 

28. From hence the Popes grew to ufurp moft of the power in chu- 
fing Bifhops to themfelves by degrees, till they got Councils to judg 
it Herefie for Emperours to claim fo much as a confirming inveftiture. 
Whence bloody Warsrofe. And it's greatly to be noted that yet 
thefe Emperours fuppofed the Bifhops ele&ed by the Clergy and Peo- 
ple, and claimed but the faid inveftiture, as is feen in the formuU of 
Pope Pafchals Grant of inveftitures to them. 

29: When they made Princes Inveftiture Sacrilege (and entring 
by them,) they fo far made the People judges of Priefts and Communi- 
on, asin a Council at Benevent. an. ioSj. fnb Vitt- to decree, c That 

* if no Catholick Prieft be there, it's righter to perflft without vifible 
4 Communion, and to Communicate invifibly with the Lord, than by 

* taking it from an Heretick to be feparated from God. For what con- 
'cord hath Chrift and Belial? AndSimoniacks are Infidels. 

30. But were good and bad Bifhops in all Ages thus minded, or 
was it only Popes ? I next add that it was one of the Articles charg- 
ed againft Wieklife the Reformer (as before againft Wecelo, who con- 
temned their Excommunications) That they that give over Preaching or 

hearing 



( i33) 



hearing Gods word, for mens Excommunications, are Excommunicato) and 
in the day of judgment jhall be judged traitors toChrift- Art. 13. in Cone 
Conft. 

Reader, are we not in a hard ftrait between Wkktiffe and Dr. StiU 
lingfieet f 

31. The fame is one of the Articles againft John Hus, That nfca 
muft not for Excommunications give over preaching. We grant that 
they mean unjufi ones* 

32. This became one of the great Controverfies with the Bohemians y 
againft whom one of the four long Orations were made at Cone* BaftL 
They would never yield that their chofen Minifters fhould obey the 
Silencers. 

53. Laftly, the Romans themfelves oft decreed, That a fimoniacd e- 
lettion even of the Pope is plainly null, and conferreth no right or authority 
tothcelefted (though this certainly overthroweth the uninterrupted- 
nefs of their own Succeffion.) And how Popes were elected till the 
device of Cardinals, is well known. 

§. 15. If all this be not enough to prove the conftant confentof 
the Chriftian Churches down from the Apoftles for the neceffity of 
the Flocks confent to the relation of the Bifhop and Paftors to them* 
Let him that would have more read all that Blondel hath produced r 
de jure plebis in regim* Ecclef 

§. 16. I lhall next prove the faid neceffity from the nature of the 
thing, the work and benefit, and the common nature, intereft and 
reafon of mankind, if more light will not put out the eyes of fome 
unwilling men, that are loth to know w4iat they cannot eafily be ig- 
norant of. 

And 1. Propriety is in order of nature antecedent to Regiment,, 
which fuppofeth it, and is to order the ufe of it for common fafety 
and good. 

2. As a mans propriety in his Member?, Children, acquisitions, is 
antecedent to Regiment, fo much more in his foul which is himfelf. 

3. Nature obligeth all to care for their lives, but yet thofe muft 
fometimebe hazarded for publick good. But the obligation to pleafe 
God and obtain Salvation and efcape Sin and Hell, is fo great, that 
no man is to pretend publick good or the will of man againft it. 

4. 'Self-government (as to power and obligation,) is antecedent to 
humane publicletGovernment in order of Nature : And publick Go- 
vernment dotf Qfot deftroy it, but regulate it .• And therefore is 
not for deftruftion but for edification. 

* The 



( m ) 

5. The end of Self-government is fo much to pleafe God and fave 
our Souls, that no man on pretence of publick Government can dif- 
oblige us from this. 

d. God hath in the fifth Commandment, which fetleth humane Go- 
vernment and obedience, chofen the name of Parents rather than Prin- 
ces, becaufe Parents Government is antecedent to Princes, and Prin-' 
ces cannot take it from them , nor difoblige their Children. But Self- 
government is more natural than Parents, and Parents and Princes 
muft help it, but not deftroy it. 

7. When perfons want natural capacity for Self-government fas 
Infants and Ideots and mad-men) they are to be governed by force as 
bruits, being not capable of more. 

8. Family Government being in order next to perfonal, Princes or 
Bifhops have no right to overthrow it, (at lead except in part on flaves 
of whofe lives they have abfolute power.-) If the King impofe Wives, 
Servants, and Diet on all his Subjects, they may lawfully chufe fitter 
for themfelves if they can •, and at leaft may refufe unmeet Wives 
and Servants, and mortal or hurtful Meats and Drinks. 

9. Much more if Princes and Patrons will impofe on all men, the 
Bifhops and Pallors, to whofe charge, care and Paftoral conduct they 
muft commit their Souls, the people having the nea reft right of choice, 
and ftrongeft obligation, muft refufe (as difcerning Self-governing 
judges) fuch whole herefle, negligence, ignorance, malignity, or 
treachery, is like either apparently to hazard them, or to deprive 
them of that Paftoral help which they find needful for them, and 
they have right to as well as other men. 

lb. The gain or lofs is more the Patients than the Impofers/. It is 
their own Sou's that are like to be profited and faved by needful helps, 
or loft for want of them : And therefore it moft concerns themfelves, 
to know what helps they chufe. 

11. If all the Kings on earth command men to truft their lives. to a 
Phyfician who they have juft caufe to believe, is like to kill them, by 
ignorance, errour, or treachery, or to a Pilot or Boat-man that is like 
to drown them, they are not bound to obey fuch mandates. Yea if 
they know an able faithful Phyfician that is moft like to cure them,they 
may chufe him before an unknown man, though the King be againit 
their choice. 

12. Scripture and experience tell us, that God wArfceth ufually ac- 
cording to the aptitude of means and inftruments* f /<ftd learned ex- 
perienced Phyficians cure more than the ignorant, rafh, and flothful ; 

and 



(■Ms) 

and good Scholars make their Pupils more learned than the ignorant 
do. And skilful, able, experienced holy Pallors, convert and edifie 
much more than ignorant and vicious men : And means mult accord- 
ingly be chofen. 

i j. If the Paftoral work skilfully and faithfully done, be needful, 
it muft not be neglefled whoever forbid it : If it be not needful, what 
is the Church of England good for, more than Infidels, or at leaft 
than Mofcovites f And for what are they maintained by Tythes, Glebe, 
and all the dignities, honours and wealth they have? And for what 
do men fo much contend for them ? 

14 It is natural to generate the like ; and for men to do and chufe 
astheyare, andastheir intereft leadeth them. Chrift tellsushow 
hard it is for a rich man to be faved, and how fewfuch prove good. 
And the Clergy themfelves do not fay that all the Patrons in England 
are wife and pious: Many Parliaments have by our Church-men been 
deeply accufed : And moft Parliament men, I think, arc Patrons : O- 
thers fay, that mod: Patrons not chofen to Parliaments are worfc. Some 
Preachers complain of Great men for fornication, drunkennefs, ex- 
cefs, idlenefs, yea, Atheifm or infidelity.- If many or any be fuch, 
are they like to chufe fuch Paftors as all godly men may truft in fo 
great a Cafe? Or would not fuch Princes chufe fuch Bifhops? 

15.- Men are asableandasmuch obliged now to take heed to whole 
condudt they trult their Souls, as they were in all former Ages of the 
Church, forecited. 

16. The Laws and Bifhops of England allow all men liberty to chufe 
what Church and Paftor, that Conformeth, they pleafe ^ fo they will 
but remove their dwellings into the" Parifh which they affect. And 
in London thoufands live as Lodger's, and may eafily go under whom 
they will chufe ', And if they like him not, may fhifc as oft as they 
pleafe. 

17. Parifh bounds are of much ufe for Order : But Order is for the 
thing ordered, and not againft it : And Parifh bounds being of humane 
make, cannot juftlybe preferr'd before the needful edification and 
fafety of mens Souls, though fuch humane Laws bind, where there are 
no greater obligations againft them. 

18. The Law of keeping to PariftvChurches where we dwell, and 
the Law that giveth Patrons the choice of all the Paftors, and Princes 
of Bifhops, are of the fame efficient power andftrength. 

19- Cafuifts ufually fay (even Papifts that are too much for Papal 
power ) that humane Laws bind not when they are againft the end, 

the 



(i30 

the common good, efpecially againft mens falration. And a Toletm 
Council decreeth, that none of their Canons fhatt be interpreted to bind ad 
culpam, but ad pcenam, left they caufe mens damnation. And many Ca- 
fuifts fay, that Penal Laws bind only to do or fufFer, and bearing the 
penalty fatisfieth them, fave as to fcandal. 

20. Yetweftill acknowledge all the right in Princes and Patrons 
before-mentioned, and that Princes are bound to promote Learning 
and piety, and fo to fee that due places, countenance and maintenance 
encourage faithful Minifters, and that all the Subjects have meet Tea- 
chers, and fubmit to hear and learn •, And that they fhould reftrain 
Hereticks and Soul-betrayers, from the facred Office- work *, andjudg 
who are to be maintained, and who to be tolerated. 

21. But this power is not abfolute but bounded : And if on the 
pretence of it, they would betray the Churckand ftarvc Souls ( like the 
Englijh Canon that binds all from going to an able Paftor at the next 
Parifh, from an ignorant unpreaching vicious Reader,) men are not 
bound to obey it, but to provide better for themfelve: funleft ?nateri- 
ally, not formally forfome time, when not obeying ;;:>uld do more 
hurt than good •, ) or as a man muft forbear publick afiimblies in a 
common Plague-time. 

And fo much to open the true reafon of the cafe in hand. And 
PauPs words to Timothy % iTim.4. 16. tell me, this care is not unne- 
cessary, Take heed to thy felf and to the dottrine, and continue in them\ 
for in doing this thoufloalt both fave thy felf and them that hear thee. 

§. 17. 1 come now to the Doctor's words, who p. 3 1 2. undertakes 
to prove, 1. That the main ground of the peoples Inter efl was founded on 
the Apoftles Canon C A Bijhop muft be blamelefs.2 

Anf The word [main"} may do him fervice, but no hurt to my 
caufe. ZMain} fignifieth net \Only\\ who doubts but the People 
were todifcern the Lives of chofen perform? But (without coming 
to the Ballance, among many caufes which is the main) I have proved 
that there were more; And among others, thac Chriftandhis Apo- 
ftles bid them take heed how they hear: beware of falfe Prophets^ and their 
leaven : beware of the concifion. A man that is an Heretic!^ avoid, — Bid 
them not good f peed: Let no man deceive ycu x — Thofe that caufe divifons 
and offences contrary to the dottrine ye have learned, avoid \ — fromfuch turn 
away. — Is here no more than judging their lives? 

§. 18. Here he come th to prove this even by Cyprian's Epiftle.a- 
gainft Martial and Bafilides : I muft not name his dealing with it, 
left he fay I rail. But I may note, 1. that he faith, \jhe force of what 

Cyprian 



( *37) 

Cyprian faith comes at laft only to this giving Teftimeny.~] 

Anfw. Only here is more than Main before. And though it was a 
matter of fcandal that was before there, and therefore it is no won- 
der if nothing elfe be particularly fpoken of \ yet fure thefe words 
(ignifie more than Teftimony. [By publicly judgment and Teftimony be 
approved worthy and meet. 2 And to be found in the faith, and apt to teach 
is fome part of meetnefs. And [ becsuje they chiefly have power either 
to chufe Priefts that are worthy, or refufe the Unworthy. ~] A chief chafing 
power of the worthy is more than a meer teftimony of fact. Again, [that 
by the fuffr age of the whole fraternity the Epifcopzcy b 2 deliver edto him7\ 
Suffrage is more than teftimony of fail. And [Ail they do fin who are defi- 
led by the facrifice of a prophane and unjuft ?rieft~\ fignifieth a dilfenting 
power, or elfe feparation were no duty. 

But he fa[th>This is the ftrongeft teftimony in antiquity for the peoples power. 
Anfw. A ftrange faying of fo good an Hiftorian, who may eafily 
know that the concurrent judgment of all the Churches, their pra- 
ctice, and their Canons, making the Peop'es confent fand ufuallyE- 
le&ionj neceflary, was a far ftronger teftimony than one Epiftle. 
But to weaken this he faith, 

1. It was in a cafe where a Bifliof had voluntarily refigned. 

Anfw. i.What'sthatto the general rule here aflerted ? 2. Was it 
voluntarily which they were adjudged to do ? But I find no mention of 
Martial's voluntary refigning, but only Bafilides. 

2. He faith [Another Btfliop w-as put in his place , not by the power of 
the people, &c'] 

Anfw. 1 . This was before faid [that the people might give them power ? 
No.~] As if he would have the Reader think that we hold the people 
give the power, which 1 have fo oft difproved. But it's his advan- 
tage to talk to many men at once, that he may fay, fome of you faid it. 

But if diftindion were not a crime, I would diftinguifh between gi- 
ving the power, and concurring with other Caufes to give a Recep- 
tivity to the perfon that mufthave it: The peoples confent is a can- 
fa partialis, of capacity and receptivity. 

2. But what fignifie thefe words [The Ordination of our Collegue Sabi- 
nus by the fuff rage of the whole fraternity ', and by the judgment of the Bi- 
flops, &c2 Is not this as much power as we plead for ? 

3. Are not you the Author of the Defence of B. Laud, and fay. That 
Chriftgave the Keys to Peter as the reprefentative of the whole Church ? And 
have you now faid more againit me or your felf ? I am not of that mind. 

5. He faith, They had the judgment of a whole Council for defer ting 
him. T Anfw. 



( 138) 

Anfw. Yes, for deferting them both} And that Council told them 
God had fore-determined in his word what men mult or muftnot be 
Bifhops, and it was God rather than they that judged it and bound 
them to obey j and that the power was chiefly in the people to chufe 
andrefufe &c.] Did you think you had helpt your caufe by faying, It 
was a whole Council that was for what we fay ? 

4. He faith, It was for Idolatry andblafphemy by his own confeffion. 
Anfw. Which mean you by [his'] when they were two? neither of 

them were otherwife Idolaters than as LibeUaticks ( who to fave their 
lives fuffered other men to fubfcribe their names, thinking it was not 
their own deed ; like fome that I have.heard of, that thought Con- 
formity Perjury, &c but let a Friend bribe an Officer to fubfcribe 
their names and give them a Certificate J And Eafdides blafphemy 
was in his ficknefsin terrour of Confidence and perhaps phrenfie. 

5. He faith all St- Cyprians proof is, that the people were moft con- 
cerned to give tefimony of life, &c This is anfwered already. 

§, 1 p. His next is, The people on this ajfuming the power of Elections* 
caufed great dift urbane e and diforders in the Church -, where he goeth 
over fome few of the many inftances, which I have at large recited, 
ZtAntioch, Rome j Alexandria, &c. s, 

Anfw. 1. And yet for all thefe diforders, the Church deprived not 
the People of their priviledge. 

2. But how fallacioufly is this urged ? I have fully elfewhere open- 
ed to the Reader, how the afpiring Prelates feeking Patriarchates 
and Biihopricks became as fo many Captains at War, and gathered 
Monks, Clergy and People to Arrive and fight for them ; And now he 
layeth this on the People ? As if the common Souldiers and not the 
Generals were the caufe of the War? But of this 1 havefaid enough. 

§. 20. He faith, To prevent this many Bifhops were made without the 
choice of the People, and Canons made to regulate Elections. 

A*fw. Craftily faid ! He faith not [without the confent of the Peo~ 
pie,'] but [the Eleclion.~\ And he faith not that the Canons took away 
either conftnting or */*#/ȣ fuflxages, but that they regulated them: Yes s 
they over and over confirmed them. 

$. 21. He faith, At Alexandria the Election belonged to the twelve** 
Presbyters. 

Anfw. They are hard put to it when they are put to fly to that te- 
ftimony which maketh Presbyters the makersof Bifhops. 

Hierome and Eutychius Alexand. tell you that the Presbyters chofe and 
made the Bifhops as the Army doth a General: which made Arch- 

Bifhop 



( 135) 

fciihop Vjher tell KingCharUs theFirfl, That the Presbyters at Alexan- 
dria did more than Ordain Presbyters, for they made Biihops fas he 
told me himfelf.J But r . We never denied that the Corn-provincial Bi- 
(hops ordinarily afterwards Ordained them, 2. Nor that the Presby- 
ters chofe them. Did the Dottor think this was to the purpofe ? But 

1. Doth he think that the Presbyters choice excludech the Peoples, when 
it is a known thing that the Canons and Cuftom conftantly conjoyned 
them? 

2. Will he conclude that whenever Hiftory nameth not the Peoples 
choice, they are left out ? 

3. Will he perfwade us when the People are not the chufers, 
that they are not neceffarily the confenters or refufers ? 

I will add one more proof to all before-mentioned. It isimpof- 
fible, exnaturarci^ that the Paftoral Office fhould be exercifed ondif- 
fenters .* Therefore their confent is neceflary. 

A Patient may be drencht like a Horfe, and cram'd like fatted Fowl, 
and fo may have a Phyfician againft his will. But a Soul cannot ufe 
Paftoral help unwillingly. 1. He cannot unwillingly be baptized : 

2. Nor unwillingly joyn in publick prayer and praife with the Church. 

3. Nor unwillingly confefs fin. 4. Nor unwillingly crave or receive 
Minifterial counfel. 5. Nor unwillingly receive the Lords Supper. 
6. Nor unwillingly defire the Pallors vifitation and prayers in his fick- 
nefs. 7. Nor unwillingly feek and receive abfolution, &c. I mean, 
he can do none of this that doth not confent. And is he a Paftor to 
fuch men that refufe all this ? It's a fhame~to think that learned men 
ihould bend their wits to prove that the Sun is not light. 

Did the Church at Alexandria ever after chufe their Bifhops, and 
not before ? All the Alexandrian Church-Hiftory tells us that the peo. 
pie there indeed exercifed too great power, after this, no place on 
earth more tumultuous and unruly .- And yet no place where the Bi- 
fliops were more fecular, and more afTumed the power of the Sword : 
But the people chofe them. 

4. And if it had been true that the choice lay only and abfolutely 
on the Presbyters, how came they to have fo long two Bifhops and two 
Churches, befides the Arians ? 

5. And he wifely overlooketh the Queftion, who chofe thofe Pref 
byters that were the chufers of the Bilhop ? 

J. 22. He next inftanceth, ex Eufeb. /. 6. ci'io. in Get manion and 
Gerduis Ordained by the Bifhops in NarciflUs place at Hiernfalem. 
Anfw. 1. His argument, if any, mull be this ; Enfibins faith, the 

T 2 m- 



( Ho ) 

Bifhops Ordained them, not mentioning the peoples confent or choice : Ergo, 
their confent or choice was not nfed. How eafily might he have known 
that we would deny the confequence? Doth any of us deny that the 
Bifhops were the Ordainers of Bifhops ? 2. And even the words of £«- 
febins confute him, faying, That when Narciflus Jhewed himfelf Again, 
the brethren (no doubt the Laity) intreated him to enjoy his Bijhoprick 
again. 

$. 2 s.HLsnext inftance is, QSeverus Bifrop 0/Milevis, in his life-time 
appointed his fucceffowr, acquainting only the Clergy with it : And Auguftine 
prevented the peoples difturbance and got them to receive him^\ 

Anfw. Thus it is fome mens work to confute themfelves. It's a 
known thing that the peoples right was fo univerfally and unquefti- 
onably acknowledged, that the Canons forbad any Bifhop to nomi- 
nate and chufe his Succeflbur, left it fhould foreftall rhem and preju- 
dice their choice. And why elfewasthe peoples refiftance feared? 
And what did Attftin but perfwade them to confent ? And why doth 
he mention that the People confented and received him, if they had 
no confenting Vote, or right on juft caufe to difTent ? It would be an 
odd argument to prove, that a woman had no power of choice in 
Marriage, becaufe one was put to perfwade her to confent ? which 
proveth the neceffity of her confenting. 

$, 24. He next tells us of Auftinh own nomination of his Succeffeur 
Zy-adius. 

Anfw. More and more againft himfelf. All that men do is in dan- 
ger of mifcarrying by their faultinefs .- Wife men would do their beft 
to prevent this, and the peoples confent being of neceffity, they fbme- 
times will pre-engage them ; fo Austin's predeceflbur thought it the 
craftieft way in his life-time, to take in Auftin for his Coadjutor or 
fellow Bifhop ftwo in a City J left the people fhould mifsof fo ex- 
cellent a man .- But this being againft the Canons, Anfiin confefleth 
that he did it ignorantly, and difowneth it- Yet left the people ( who 
grew more and more faulty) fhould mifchufe, he in his life time com- 
mendethtothem£/W/w, that their love to him might procure their 
acceptance. Doth not this prove that their choice or confent was 
necefTary ? Reader, if the Doctor can perfwade thee that the Country 
have not the choice of Parliament men, becaufe fome are commended 
or named to them, thy yielding is tooeafie. 

§.25., The next is the ftory oiPadtbe Novatian.outof Socrat.l 8. 
(who hath but feven) Paulus. was advifing his Clergy to chufe his Suc- 
cejlbur j They tqld him their fear of, their own difagreement, and to 

prevent 



( Hi ) 

prevent it, intreated him to nominate one. He made them promife to 
ftandto it, and named Mercianus in a fealed paper. Dot;i not this 
inftance prove, that the Bifhop had not power to chufe one of him- 
felf? And was not his fear of thedifagreement of the C/ergy f And 
doth any of this difprove the peoples confenting right? And would 
the Doctor perfwade us that even the Novatians excluded them. 

§. 26. He tells us, that the Greeks Canonifts thirst hit the Council of 
Nice tooh^ away ail the power of eleclion of Btfiops from the people, and 
gave it to the Bijhops of the Province.'} 

Anfw. i. In all reafon he (hould have cited thofe Canonifts ; for 
it's ftrange that yet their following Cuftoms and Canons (hould fay 
the contrary. 2. There is not a word in the Canon cited about electi- 
on, but only ordination [that all the Bifhops in the Province fliould 
Ordain a Bifhop ', But when that cannot be, there (hall beat leaft: 
three prefent, and three more confenting by writing.] And what's 
this to the Cafe of the Peoples election or confent ? 

§. 27. Yet hebringeth moreagainft himfelf, viz.. Can. 18. Condi 
■ Antioch. which is, That if one be Ordained BiJIwp and go not to the Pa^ 
rijh, bee aufe the people refufehim, he Jhall have the honour and Office of a 
Bifhop, not troubling the peace of the Church;} which plainly faith 
what i have oft faid, That the people have no power to hinder any from 
being Miniflers or Bifiwps indefinitely in the Church Vniverfal, but only to 
judge whether he (hall be theirs : whereas the Ordainers have power 
in both cafes 5 and ufually were the firft chufers, though the people 
had a refufing or accepting power, as there appeared caufe. 

$. 28. Next he addeth more for what I plead, that Bafl Ordain- 
ing one firft, yerfwades the Senate and People to accept him : Adding 
{Their way then was y if the people did agree on aperfon to be Bifiop, to pe- 
tition the Metropolitan and Synod, who had the full power to allow or re- 
fufe him."} 

Anfw. Is not this a ftrong proof that the people had no fuch a- 
greeing or chufing power, becaufe the Metropolitan and Synod alfo 
had their vote? what need Bafl perfwade them to accept him, when 
they had no power to refufe ? Did Bafl or any Synod fay, all people 
are bound to accept thofe whom we chufe, be they what they will, and 
not to try them and judge themfelves. 

§. 29. And here I defire the Reader to remember, 1. That we 
take the chief truft to be by Chrift committed to the Ordainers for 
taking in fit men,and keeping out the unfit: They being the only Judges 
(with the perfon himfelf ) who fhall be a Mioifterof Chrift in the 

Church 



( *4* ) 

Church Univerfal ♦, And neither Magiftrate or People have a power to 
chufe or refufe them. 

2. That the Univerfal Church being one body of Chrift, though 
Minifters have not fuch a charge of each others flocks as the particu- 
lar Biihops of them have, yet are they bound to give them all the - 
help they can ( as neighbour families to help each other : ) And there- 
fore to offer to vacant Churches the beft they know, and perfwade 
them to accept them, when they are at a lofs or need advice. 

3. The people are bound to reverence the judgment of neighbour 
Paftors herein, and not cauflefly tooppofe. 

4. When the People have chofen for they and the Clergy,) if the 
perfon were not before Ordained, the Ordainers ftill are judges for 
their own ad. 

5. It was not ufual to Ordain fmetitHlo, and the Ordainers did two 
things at once, 1. Judge abfolutely who jhall be a Minifter of Chrift ? 
2. Judge with the Church to which he was Ordained (Elders and 
People) who was fit for that Church, and fhould be theirs : And a 
threefold lock was fafe. 

6. By all this it appears that all the Dodors talk againft the peo- 
ples unfitnefs to difcern who are found or Heretick, fit or unfit, is 
to no purpofe : And that if unmeet men are Miniftersor Bifhops, the 
fault is ten times more in the Ordainers than in the People : feeing it 
is not the People but the Ordainers that are trufred to take into the 
Miniftry indefinitely, but only among many to judg who (hall be theirs, 
fuppofing them either before Minifters, or next to be made fuch by 
the Ordainers. And doth the Dodor think that the judgment of all 
parties is notas fure as of one alone? or that my refufing a Phy- 
fician is any wrong to his Licenfers or him ? 

J. 30. The Laodicean Canon cited by him fpeaketh for me as the 
reft: (Did he think 1 wanted his help to cite more for my feif ?) Who 
doubteth that the People being not the fole judges, if they took in 
an un-Ordained or un-approved man without the Synods confent, it was 
void? ( By the way, do either Synods or People (theoldchufers) chufe 
our Biihops or Priefts ?> 

§. ft. Yet more for me, he citeth the Chalced. Council, turning 
out Bajfianus and Stephams from Ephejns, two men that ftrove and 
fought for the Bifhoprick unto blood in the Church, and both plead- 
cd they were lawfully called by Clergy, and People, (And yet had the 
People no right?; But they were both proved to be violent Intruders, 
and another chofen. And who doubts but a great General Council had 
the greateft power then? §• 32. 



(t*8) 

§. $2. Next he tells us of a Law of Jufttnian, that made the Efctt 
jry and better fort of Citizen j chafers- ("And indeed Naz.t4xz.ene once 
wilht the more religious fort were chufers: ) but doth not this prove 
ftill the peoples power, though fo long after by an Eraperour the 
poorer were fo reftrained ? I will not ftay to fearch the Book, but 
take it as he citeth it. 

J. 53. Buthisnexc feemeth to be downright againft us, Can. 1$. 
Conc.Laodic. But it is not fo : Crab hath two tranilations : Thefirft 
faith, £uodnon fit permittendum turbis elcftioncs eorum facer e qui funt ad 
facer dot mm provebendi : It is not fufferable to chufe by tumults : ergo, net 
for the people to chufe at all, no nor diffent. I deny the confequence. To 
forbid diforder is not to forbid choice or free confent. 

$. 34- His next proof is Ntc One 2. c. j. which he faith, reftrain- 
ed the eUclion only to Biflops. 

Anfw* Such dealing tells us that Protectant Doctors are not to be 
taken for infallible no more than Papifts ', 1 cited the Canon before : 
The doubt is whether it drive us not to more feparation than we are 
willing of, by nullifying our Bifhops and Priefts calling. It is Levery 
iletlion of a Btflop^ Prieft or Deacon, which is made by Magiftrates, flail 
remain void, by the Canon which faith, If any Biflop ufe the fecular Ma- 
giftrates to obtain by them a Church, let him be depofed and feparated, and 
all that communicate with him.2 Doth not the Doctor unhappily chufc 
his teftimonies ? Had it not been better to have paft over this Council ? 
Where now is all the Church of England by this Canon, if Bifhops 
coming in by the King, and Parfons by the Patrons be all void and 
null, and the people feparated that communicate with them ? Suche- 
vents are the fate of an ill caufe. And the next Canon doth not a- 
mend their matter, which calleth it madnefs for gain or any afFefti- 
on of his own, to drive any from the Miniftry, or figregate one of his Cler- 
gy, he flail have Lextalionis, and his work^ flail fa/Ion his own head. 

§. 35. He adds, [_ Which was confirmed by following Councils in the 
Greek Church, as Can. 28. Conft. againft Photius, and the people are there 
excluded with an Anathema, fo far were popular elc&ions grown out of 
yequefi in the Eaftern Empire.'] 

Anfw. r. Had this been true, it would not much move me, that 
thefe two Councils that fetup lmageworflip, and fhewed much wick, 
ednefs, fhould contradict the ApoftolicalandCatholick conft i tut ions 
and practice. But, 1 . 1 thank the Bifhops, I am not able to buy 
the French Volumes of the Councils, and therefore what is there I 
know not : and my own Library is rtined to avoid their Agents di- 
straining 



( 144 ) 



(training it for my Preaching.- And Dottor James and others have 
taught me to prefer the oldeft Editions of the Councils, and to take 
heed how I truft the later and the Jefuits pretended Manufcripts. 1 
have now none but Crab (who medlethnot with this) ia\&Binnius\ 
And in Binnius there are but 14 Canons in the laft Action, and 27 in 
the antecedent Fragment* : and no fuch thing as a 28/^? Canon to be 
found: Nor is there in the 27^ any fuch thing as the Doctor ci- 
teth. 

2. But if there were, if it were but the confirmation of the 2. Ni- 
cene Canon, it were much againft the Doctor's caufe, and nothing for 
him. 

3. But unhappily here alfo he fends us to find out much againft 
him. For befides that the %th Can. in Fragm. condemneth requiring 
fubfcriptions to ftick to the Patriarch (chough they were not yet 
oaths of obedience J the 12th Canon is indeed the fame with thofe 
forecited, *&. "That the Apoftolical and Synodical Canons flatly 
u forbidding promotions and confecrations of Bifhops, by the power 
u and command of Princes, we concordantly define, and fentence, 
ct that if any Bifhop receive the confecration of fuch a dignity, by 
u the craft and tyranny of Princes, he (hall be altogether depofed, as 
u one that defired and confented to have the gift of God by the will 
4C of carnal fenfe, and from men and by men. 

I fuppofe this is the Doctors Canon which depofeth all the Englijh 
Bifhops, unhappily cited. And the Can. 14. requiring Princesto ho- 
nour Bifhops, and condemning the Bifhops that debafe themfelves to 
go far from their Church to meet a Prince, and that will alight to 
them from their Horfes, and that will bafely kneel to them, or will 
come to their tables, ur.lefs with purpofe freely to reprove them] 
expoundeth both thefe Bifhops hearts and words. And fo doth Can. 
17. which condemneth fuch as come not to Synods becaufethe Prince 
forbiddeth them, and faith, That Princes have no right Jo much as to.be 
ffctlators of the matters which at Synods fall out among Pnefts. And 
here indeed an Anathema is pronounced againft the obflinately diC 
obedient Bifhops> that will not obey their Patriarch before theforbid- 
dingTrince7\ And doth this meddle with the peoples Recipient pow- 
er i which is only levelled againft Princes and Lay Patrons Impofiti- 
ons, and depofeth the Englifh Clergy and Church ? 

The fame is repeated, Can. 25. (which it's likely is that which he 
meant) viz* u That according to the old Canons the promotions 
tC and confecrations of Bifhops be made by the choice and decree of 

the 



( '45 ) 

ct the ^College, and that no Lay Princes or men in power tfmmstm) 
" do mix themfelves in the electioneer promotion of Patriarchs, Me- 
tropolitans, or any Bifhop ^ left hence there be inordinate confu- 
"fionor contention, fpeciaily feeing that it is net convenient thai: 
"any Potentates or other Lay-men have pewer in fnch matters, 

44 but rather attend with fllence. And if any llcular Prince or 

"Potentate (men in power) or Laymen of other dignity, ftrivt 
lt againft the common and confonant and Canonical Election of the 
"Ecclefiaftical Order, let him be anathema, till he confent and obey 
" in this, which the Church fhall (hew its will in, in the Election and 
"Ordination of its Proper Bifhops. 

Here, I. The Churches will is made the determiner of the Ele- 
ction and Ordination of their proper Bifhop. 2. The Canonical 
Order is eftablifhed (which ever required the Clergies and Peoples 
confent.) 3. Nothing of the Laity but acts of Princes power and dig- 
nity is excluded : 4. And hereby our Englijh Clergy depofed. The 
Doctor had been better to have let alone his Hiftory and AntU 
quities. 

J. 36. His4fi> note is, Chriftian Magiftrates did interpofe in this mat- 
ter as they judged expedient. 

jinfw. Hitherto he hath produced the Teftimonies of Councils 
and Bifhops againft Magiftrates choice ormediings(miftakingly think- 
ing it had been againft the Flocks Receptive powerj And now he 
will prove that Magiftrates interpofed, as you fhall hear. 

§. 3 7- Andfirft [So Conftantine did in the Church of Antioch. Soz. 
I. i.e. 19. 

j4nfw. What did he ? He motioned a Bifhop to end the difference-, 
And who oppofeth that ? 

§. 38. Next [Conftantitu put by two that the people ftrovc about, 
and fet up Eufeb. Nicom. 

jlnfvr. An unhappy teftimony : Socrates whom he citeth thus rela- 
teth it, [Alexander dying commended Paulus to thethufers as the fitreft, 
but if they muldhave a man offrowefs to chafe Macedonius.*] The people 
were divided in the choice, and made a greater ftir than formerly 1 
But the Orthodox carried it for Paulus againft the Hereticks that 
were for Macedonius. Conftantius being the firft perfecuting Arian 
Emperour, was offended, and got a Council to depofe Paulus, and 
he got in his great favourite Eufebius Ntcomed. the head of all the A- 
rians. Doth not this fhew, 1. That the people were chufers, 2. That 
the Emperour depofed him not, but by a packt Council of Bifhops 

U (which 



( *¥ ) 

£which we know had a depofing power?) 3 . That this is Recorded as 
an Acl: of two Hereticks, a Prince and Prelate, wronging the 
Church. 

§. 39. Saith he, [XVhen Eufebius was dead, the Orthodox party again 
chofe Paulus, and Conftantius fends Hermogenes to drive him out by 
force. 

Anfw. i.I doubt he will next cite Valens, Genf ericas ^Hnnner km ><&c 
for murdering and perfecting the Bifhops. Was an Arians Tyranny, 
a note of right? 

2. The ftory (in Socrates cited by him) is this : Eufeb. the Arian 
being dead, the People again went to the choice, and chofe as before : 
But fome were kiliM in the tumult. The Arian Emperour fends Her- 
mogenes to force out Taulus the chofen Bifhop .♦ The people tumuitu- 
oufly fight for their Biihop and priviledge, and fet Hermogenes Lodg- 
ings on fire and kill him. The Emperour comes from Anticch, a- 
merceth the City, and puts Tad out, and yet is angry that Macedo- 
nia was chofen by the other part without his advice;, but con fen tech 
to him. 

1. Doth notthisfhew that the people were the chufers ? 2. And 
even their murderous tumult moved neither an Heretick Prince nor 
the Bifhops to deny their right of choice. 3. Murder and fuch vio- 
lence was a fair colour for more feverity. 4. Yet all this was by a 
Heretick noted as an ad againft the Church. 5. And all this was 
but about a Patriarch, and not an ordinary Biihop, and that at his 
Imperial feat, where it concerned the Emperour s to have moft re- 
gard. 6. And I told you that Princes are the Judges whom thqy 
fhould tolerate, whoever have the choice. . 

§. 40. He adds, When Athanafius was reflored, Conftantius decla- 
red it was by the decree of the Synod and by his confent. 

Anfw. 1. If he meant here to intimate the exclufion of the peoples 
confent or choice, he could fcarce have named in Hiftory an inftance 
more againft himfelf, than that of Athanafius, who thereby was 
brought in, upheld and oft reftored. 2. This Hiftory tells you the 
Arian Emperour was forced to this confent, to avoid a threatned War 
from his brother. 3. This was not to make him Bifhop, but tocall 
him to his flock from his banifhment. 4. And dothnot all this confirm 
what I plead for, as, to the Peoples, Synods and Princes feveral 
parts ? 

§ ; 41. NeEtarius cafe is next, about whom Hifiorians difagree, but 
the moft credible fay> that the. Council named Nettarw with fome 

others 



( H7 ) 

others in a paper, and in honour to an excellent Emperour, bid 
him take which he would : But all this excluded not the peoples pare 
(who would not have left Gregory but by his own requelt) and were 
glad to accept one from fucha Council and Prince. 

§. 42. Next he faith out of Soumen, That the People and Clergy 
chofe Chryfoftome, and Arcadius confented\ and then he affronted! 
Sozomen with PalUdins. 

Anfw. i. Palladms denyeth nothing that I plead for, but only tells 
us of the Emperours premotion and endeavours, (in his Royal City 
about a Patriarch) to prevent the divifion of the people : Nor hPal- 
Udius credit to be equalled to Sozomen^s herein, much lefs prefer- 
red. 2. Socrates the moft credible of all in this, faith, /. 6. c. 2. 

[It f e erne d good to them to fend for John Chryf Wherefore not long 

after, Arcadius with the general confent both of Priefts and People fent 
forhim.2 And did not tne Doctor think 1 needed help by fuch Ci- 
tations? 

$.45. The choice of Neftorins was juftfuch another. The people 
had no reafon to deny confent to one out of ChryfoftonPs Monaste- 
ry, nominated by fo good an Emperour', who was judge whom to 
tolerate in his Royal City : But both he and they after repented of 
the choice. 

§. 44. His laft inftance is Theodofins getting in Proclns before Maxi- 
mianus was buried. 

Anfw. Reader, 1. All this is a good Emperours care about one 
Patriarch of his own City to avoid divifion, and nothing to the com- 
mon choice of Bifhops. 

2. The true cafe Socrates ( cited ) thus defcribeth : The people 
were the chufers: They were for Proclns ; but fome ad verfaries ob- 
jected a Canon, that a Bifhop might not be removed from one Church 
to another, and he being a Bifhop already they could not have him : 
Socrates pleadeth for the difpenfablenefs of this Canon \ but the 
people were fain to take Maximiamis. The Emperour being for dit 
penfing with that Canon, and gratifying the people that had before 
declared themfelves for Proclns, did not himfelf bring him in, but 
got Celeftine Bifhop of Rome to write to Cyril of Alex anid. John Bifhop 
oiAntioch and Rnfns Bifhop of Thejfalonka to fatisfie them to do it •, and 
fo got Proclns in. What is this againft the peoples right ? Thefe be 
all the Doctor's inftances on this point. 

$. 45- His 5fJ?note is, [On the alteration of the Government of Chri- 
ftendom there was greater reafon for the Maaiftrates interpofmg than be- 

U 2 fore: 



( i4» ) 

fire: Becaufe of Princes endowing Churches, the Royal affetit was pt % — 
though a Biflwp was chofen by the Clergy and People^ 

Anfw. Who would ftnve againft fo friendly a difputer, that go- 
eth on to fay die fame as I ? when I doubt his party will fay that 
he Prevaricateth. 

$, 46. But he faith, The Royal power overthrowing the Papal , refer- 
ved the power of nomination of Bifoops as part of the Prerogative : which 
being allowed in frequent Parliaments, the confent of the people u {wallow- 
ed up therein y fince their Atls oblige the whole Nation. 

Anfw. 1. 1 fee we yet underftand not how much o f the Irenicon is, 
retraced, and whether he yet hold not that no Form of Church-Go- 
vernment is of Divine Institution ; or we be not bound to be for that 
which King and Parliament are for. But we undertake to prove the. 
contrary, and have done it. 

2. . What if Parliaments gave the King power to chufe all Folks 
Wives and Husbands, Phyficians, Tutors, Diet, Trade, &c. our Right 
were not fwailowed up by this, though it were called tbe King's 
Prerogative. Much lefs where Gods lnftitution and the very Law 
of Nature have foreftalled them, and neither . God nor Man. gave, 
them that fwallowing power. 

3. I oft anfwered, thatTythes and Temples may be more in the. 
Magiftrates power, than Paftoral relation and power of the Keys. 

$. 47. He faith, p. $26. That the inferiour right of Patronage is juftly, 
thought to^ bear <qual date with the fettlement of Chrifiianity in peace and 
quietnefs. 

Anfw. 1. It was fcarce ever fetled in peace and quietnefs to this, 
day : Much lefs during the Saxons Heptarchy. 2. I have proved that 
the Univerfal Church was far from making Lay Patrons thechufers. 
3. It is lefs lawful to fell our Souls into flavery than our bodies : 
And if our Anceftors had faid tofome rich men, YoufhaU all chufe our 
Paftors and we will ft and to your choice, if you will build us Temples and 
give them Lands *, it would no more bind us to ftand to their bargain, 
than if they had faid, Give usHoufe and Land, . and you fhall chufe our 
Diet, Wives, Phyficians, &c we fay if your kindnefs be turned to 
our hurt, take your houfe and land) or give it to whom you will : we 
mil not fell our fouls and Church-rights at fuch a price* 

§,.. 48. His 6//j conclufion is, That things being thus fetled — there is 
vo ground for the people to refiitne the liberty of Elections. 

Anfw- 1. 1 need not over and over repeat the anfwer to his rea- 
fons. 2. If the liberty of Eltftim be not refumed fwhich was not 

that 



(H9) 

that which I pleaded for, as he would all along inflauate,) yet the li- 
berty of free confent or refufal may be neceflary. 

§. 49. Reader, again, the true cafe is like this following: Parents- 
have a ruling power to chufe Wives and Husbands for their 
Children: Guardians have much power over Orphans in it. «=13 
Magiftrates may make Laws to reftrain unlawful Marriages. 
Children are bound inthefe cafes to obey Parents, unlefs they chufe 
to their apparent hurt or danger*, and to obey Guardians and Ma- 
giftrates in their proper Laws. But 1. It is for all this no Marriage 
till both parties confent. 2. And ail the faid power over them is li- 
mited, and but directive and not deftruttive to their own confent- 
ing power. 

Even foin our cafe ^ n The Ordainers are the firft Judges, and 
have a power like Parents, and none fhould be received agamft their 
wills, unlefs they would betray the Church. 2. Tne Magiftrates may 
make ordering reftrainingLaws, that no unworthy perfon (hall be to- 
lerated : 3. Alimited power of nomination may be left to Patrons, 
as Guardians, who have power to help the Churches, but none to 
hurt*, much iefs to ruinc them 4. But it is not a Church related as 
Paftor and Flock, till both confent. Thefe things are evident truth, 
though fome would bury it in a heap of words. 

$. 50. I would alfo if I could have drawn the Doctor to refolve 
me this doubt ', Whether the power of Parents and Husbands, or ej Patrons , 
yea or Princes be greater, in the choice of Food , Phyfick^ and fo of a Tu- 
tor, a Paftor or a particular Church- Communion. And if a Parent or Huf~ 
band fay, I command you to hear and Communicate with fuch a Pa- 
ftor and Congregation, and the Patron fay the contrary, yea, or 
the Prince or Law, which is to be obeyed ? A nd to whom this Family 
Government moft belongeth ? And why Father and Mother rather 
than Prince and Priefts are named in the Fifth-Commandment ? 

§. J 1- p- 529. He reciteth my reafons, why Parliaments cannot 
take away our free Receptive confent, and he again feigneth that I 
fay all this for the peoples chafing power, yet confefTeth I deny not 
the Magiftrates or Patrons power of their own Gift. (The Cafe of 
Sacrilege I leave to their Confciences.) 

§. 52. p. no. But faith he, Anabaptijts, Quakers, and all may pre- 
tend a care of their Souls, and fo leave the Minifter only the Temple and 
Tythes. 

Anjw. i. kxAAnahaptifts and Quakers will have a care of their 
Souls, when you have faid and done all you can againft it : Aprifon 
will not overcome it.- 2. So 



(i5o) 

- 2. So Turks* Socimans, Papifts, (or Anabaptifls if you will) when they 
get into power, may pretend that they are fitter to be traded with 
mens Souls, than men with their own; And fo Prelates may fay : But 
is nothing true that men can abufe and mifapply ? 

And to me it is fomething, though it fliould be nothing to you, 
i. That nature obligeth and difpofeth every man more to care for his 
own foul, than it doth the Patron to care for others. 2. That many 
hundred or thoufand men are not all fo like to miftake and mifcar- 
ry about their own Souls, as one Patron is that is far from their 
hearts. 3. That it is a matter more dangerous to truft thoufands in one 
hand than in many fas it would be in a ftorm to put all into one boat.) 
If that man mifcarry he endangereth multitudes : If another manmif- 
carry it is but for one. 

3. To have a felf-faving power, and to have a felf-deftroying 
power, differ (with men that hate not diftin&ion.) So little can a 
man know what we fay by this Doctors Aniwers, that a (hanger 
would think by him that we were quite of another mind. I never 
faid Quakers or any others may have whom they will : If they chufe 
men uncapable, the neighbour Bifhops or the Clergy mayadmonifh 
them, and renounce his Communion", And the Magiftrate may re- 
ftrain him and refufe to tolerate an intolerable mart: And yet the 
people ought not; to accept an uncapable man offered by Bifhops 
or Patrons*, no nor a man next to uncapable when they need and may 
have much better. Many Negatives are fafe. 

§. 53. He faith, The prophane have right to their own fouls, and to 
the care of them r and therefore are equally concerned with others fto 
chufe.J 

Anfw. It is fad with the Church when they need to be faved from 
fuch reafonings of their great Teachers. 

1. A Right to care for their Souls giveth no man right to chufe 
men for others Soul?, to do that which they will not have done for 
their own. The queftion is, whether that man will Communicate with 
the Church on Chrifts terms ? He refufeth and will not (elfe he ought 
not to be refufed.) And ihall he that refufeth Communion chufe one to 
give it others, becaufe he hath a Soulhimfelf? Had the neighbour 
Heathens and Hereticks of old power to chufe Bifhops for the 
Church, while they refufed to be of the Church themfeives > Shall 
he that will not be of the Society chufe for the Society ? 

2. We diftinguifh between what a man may be forced to, and what 
*ot. He may not be forced to the great gift of Sacramental Remif- 

fion 



C*sO 

fion and Communion,rx-caufe no unwilling perfon hath right to it ; But 
an ignorant perfon may be forced as ^Catechumen or hearer^to hear what 
can be faid for his conviction : For truth may conquer the unwilling. 
But none on this pretenfe can hinder the Church from hearing its 
own Paftors, nor force men to be the ordinary Auditors of Maho- 
metans, Hereticks or Heathens. 

§. 54. p. 331. He again tragically exclaims of me, on the old 
falfe fuppoficion, that I make the people the fole chufers, and noc 
only plead for their free Negative Vote (though chufing alfo, but not 
alone, was the old way^) And here tells us of the tumults that 
would follow. 

Anfw* 1. So they would if the people chofe in France, Spain, [- 
taly: And yet I would they did. Nohurnane aftions are free from 
inconveniencies ', which are not to be cured with amifchkf. 

2. Let him name me ten places that have fuffered fo deeply by the 
peoples choice, as I can tell him of ten thoufand that have done by 
the choice of Prelates, Patrons and Princes, and I will confefs my 
errour. It was not by the peoples choice that all preaching was put 
down in Mofcovy .- It is not the people that have this many hundred 
years chofen all the Popifh Bifhops, iMafs-priefts, &c in Italy, and 
moft of the Roman Church, even in Spain, France, Bavaria, &c. 

3. I told him, but had no anfwer, that not only the Innes of 
Court, but alfo Black } ry art, J Iderwan bury y znd fuch other places as have 
ehofen their own Teachers, have f peaceably J had as happy a fuccef- 
fion of Learned, Godly, able Pallors, as any place in London or in 
England. 

4. It's known by experience that Learning and great worth doth 
as Light fo reveal it felf to humane nature, that ufually moft of thofe 
that are loth to be holy themfelves, would have a Saint and an able 
man. 

5. Doth he think in his Confcience that all the Patrons in England 
are liker to be judicious, and free from felicitations, favour and 
refpect of perfons, than the majority of the Communicants of fuch 
Churches ? 

6. If the Parfons firfb admit great numbers of profane, and wick- 
ed men to be Communicants, and then tell us how unfit thefe men 
aretochufe.* they do but condemn themfelves. 

§• 55- p* 111* He tells us we do but fay, We judge, we thinly, &c. 
the things unlawful, but for partkukr arguments to prove them unlawful, 
he finds none* 



Anfa. If this be true, then they that never found our arguments 
never anfwered them. (If it be not true, it is not well.) Then you 
here, and Mr. Falkener^ Fulxvood^ Durd % &c. have not yet anfwered 
any of our arguments. Remember this. 

2. Though I did not argue, but name the things in my'firft Plea, 
you and others took it for arguing ^ and we ever craved leave to 
doit. 

3. Is it true indeed, that there are no arguments, in our Wri- 
tings, 1 660. and 166 1. with the Bifhops, nor any in my Book of 
Concord, orTreatifeofEpifcopacy, nor in my old Difputations of 
Church-Government , nor in any other mens Books thefe eighteen 
years ? I doubt the angry Bifhops will think that in my Treatife 
of Epifcopacy there is fome fort of Argument^ and that my Book 
againft Sacril. Defertion of the Miniftry hath fome : and that an A- 
pology for our preaching ( now in the Prefs) hath fome. But if 
the re be none, accufe us of none* 



CHAP. 



( *si ; 

CHAR X. 

Of the Impofed ufe of the Crofs in Baptifm, and de- 
nying Baptifm to the refufers. 

$. i.l)Age 348. He comcth to our {charge againft the Church] 
JL ( chough he never found any Arguments as aforefaid.) 

And I. Why doth he filently balk the chief things which I had 
named? will this fatisfie Confidence ? will excufing fome things make 
others lawful ? 

II- As to what he faith for the Crofs, I have fo fully anfwejed it 
twice to Mr. Cheney, and once to the Impleader, that I am loth to re- 
peat all again. In fhort, 1. He faith the Church intends it not {for 
a fign of Immediate dedication."} 

Anfw. 1 . What is the Medium i 2. What if it were not Immediate ? 
3. Can it be more Immediate than in the very prefent dedicating a&, 
to ufe the fign and exprefling the dedicating fignification ? — 4. The 
words of the Canon a;te, [To dedicate them by that badge to his fervice, 
whofe benefits beftowed on them in baptifm the name of the Crofs doth refre- 
fent.] And after {the Church of England accounteth it an honourable 
badge whereby the Infant is dedicated to the fervice of him that dyed on 
the Crofs."] And the fervice is named QChriftianity in practice,] to 
fight under his banner, &c. 

2. He faith, {In baptizing the Minifler ails by Authority derived from 
Chrift, but at Croffmg he fpeaks in the name of the Church, [We receive 
this Child, &c] 

Anfw. 1. It's meet it fhould be fo,thatChrift's Sacraments be ufedby 
Chri It's Authority, and mens by mens. 

2. But I hope this is but a quibble*, and that notwithftanding the 
word {we,] the Minifter as Chrift's Minifter, and in his name faith, 
{we receive this child,] when even the abfolved are to be received by 
Chrifi: firft, and then by the Church. I will not elfe aggravate the 
ill confequences. 

$. 2. He before faith, {Was the Crofs a dedicating fign to Cod, or 
rf declarative fign to men ?] 

Anfw- The Canon faith exprefly twice, QTo dedicate them by this 
badge to his fervice—] And Can honourable badge whereby the In- 

X ~ fant 



C 154 ) 

fane is dedicated to his Service.] And the Rubrick which we muft 
fubferibe, refers us to the Canon for the true fenfe and reafon of the 
Croffing. 

2, Is Baptifm and the Lords Suffer a fign to God, or to man ? It is a 
fignto man for God .- Godknoweth notbyfigns, but inftiruteth figns- 
for humane ufe. It is to dedicate them to God's fervice. 
$. 3. He faith, [It reprcfents the duty and not the Grace'} 
Anfw. 1. The words are, [to his fervice, whofe benefits b eft owed on 
them in baptifm, the name of the Crofs doth reprefent.} Are the benefits 
fobeftowed no Grace? or is Reprefenting no Reprefenting ? orfhali 
we believe the Doctor againft the Church ? or is this the kind of 
Conformity that he would teach us, by denying what we fubferibe 
to? 

2. Sure the Crofs of Chrift with his dying on it, expreft alfo in the 
words of the Canon, is Grace. To repreientor fignifie Chrift- dying on 
the Crofs ( which are the words and ufe) is immediately to repreient or 
fignifie the very Grace of Redemption it felf. 

3. To be lifted under Chrift as the Captain of our Salvation, and 
to be received into the Congregation of Chrifts flock, to fight un- 
der his banner, &c are all great Grace. 

4. The moral operation on the foul which the- preface of the Li- 
turgy afcribes to the Ceremonies, is Grace ro be*wrought By them. 

5. To make a common fymbol or badge of Chriftianity, folemn- 
ly obliging as a Covenanting fign, by which they muft be diftinguifh- 
ed from Infidels, and this even at our fir ft Covenanting with Chrift:, 
is to make a Sacrament in the old fence. What was the Souldiers 
Sacramentum Militare more, from which the Church feems to have 
borrowed the name? The Oath was obliging ', The colours or c/h- 
gtdum was obliging and a fignifying badge .- The good received was 
the honour, relation and hope of future pay or preferment upon per- 
formance. And is not all this in ours? 

6. If you have wit ftrong enough to juftifie all this humane addi- 
tion to Chrifts great inftitution, muft all men be compelled to pra- 
ftifeas you and fuch others judge, becaufe you think they do not 
confute you? Who gave you or fuch others right to filence, reject 
from Chriftendom, &c. all fuch as are not herein of <your mind j 
even when you deny what your Canon exprefly faith ? 

§.4. He faith, It addeth nothing to Bsptifm which is compleat be- 
fore. * 

Anfw. What's this to our queftion f It adds another Sacrament to 

Baptifm z 



( isO 

Baptifm: The Lords Supper is another Sacrament of the fame Co- 
venant added to perftd Baptifm by Chrift; and the Crofs by 
men. 

§. 5. But all the difficulty is thus removed •( he thinks) and by 
the forefaid quibble of [I baptize'] and [we receiver] 

Arfw. Difficulties are eafilier removed with fome men, than with 
others. 

1. He dare not fay that the Minifter fpeaks not as from Chrift, 
when-ever he faith [we] in the plural number. 

2. Doubtlefsitis firft Chrifts aft, and then the Churches to Receive 
the Baptized into the fioch^of Chrift : And the Minifter herein firft fpeak- 
eth Chrills aft and then the Churches. 

$. The words [we receive] him, goeth before the Crofting and is 
named efpecially as part of the Miniftration of Baptifm, being its 
immediate effe&. And what a dangerous invention is it to fay than 
the Minifter here fpeaketh'not from Chrift but the Church, in re- 
ceiving in thofe dedicated to him ? 

4. And he will make us a hard task of it, to know when the 
Prieft fpeaks as God's Minifter, and when as the peoples Minifter or 
mouth ? 

§. 6. He brings us the inftance of one after B^ti[m y engaging 
himfelf in the Independent Church Covenant by holding up his hand. 

Jnfw. 1. It is fuppofed that the Covenant which he mentioneth 
is not the Covenant of Chriftianity, but (that fuppofed) aconfent or 
promife to live in the relation and duty of a Chriftian member of 
that particular flock. And this is much like a Covenant between a 
Chriftian Man and Wife, Tutor and Pupil .• And as men may make 
particular contracts, they may make particular figns of them, (as is 
the Ring 2nd taking hands in Marriage*, the crowning of a Chrifti- 
an King, &c.J But if you fuppofe the Independant Covenant to re- 
peat alio and contain the Covenant of Chriftianity it felf as the firft: 
part, then that which is required is but Jigmfied consent : And as all 
Chriftians renew their confent at each Encharifl Sacrament ally, fo do 
they frequently by word and dud, and all due fignificationof confent- 
Nature and Cuftom of humane converfe have made words and ge- 
ftures fignifiers of confent.- But Sacraments and folemn badges of 
this nature fignifie by b;ftitntionot the inventer or impofer. 

The fin lyeth in arrogating Chrifts prerogative, and accufing his 
Lawsof infufficiency. If Chrift (byhisadt.and fpint) had not fepa- 
rated one day in feven for the Commemoration of his Refurreftion, 

X 2 he 



he had not told us that this is his own work as Legiflator. But now he 
hath feparated one day, if man wiil make a Law that another day 
alfoof the week fhall be feparated to the fame ufe, it is as much as 
to fay, I. We have authority to make fttch Laws as Chrift made, 2, And 
to amend his Law by this addition. For if it had been fit to be made, 
there was the fame reafon then for Chrift to have feparated two 
days. 

So kit in this cafe. If Chrift had made no Sacraments, we might 
more have doubted whether he took it for his proper work: But 
where he hath made two, to make more of the fame, nature, to me 
feemeth too bold: He could have made the Sacrament of the dedica- 
ting Crofs if he would have had it. If our Bifhops fhould command 
us to fay we believe Chrifts refurre&ion, or to ftand up to (ignifie 
it, to avoid confufed noife, we refufe it not ;' But if they would make 
a Law that none (hall be Chriftened that will not let the Prieft put him 
intoa Coffin or Grave and take him out again to reprefent the Refur- 
rection, 1 think it fafeft to deny obedience to fuch arrogant ufurpation. 

§.7. He confcffeth, It belongs to Chrift only to appoint the means of 
conveying his own grace. 

Anfw. I have before proved that the Crofs is by this Church ap- 
pointed as fuch a means, and named the Grace and conveyance. 

§. 8. He faith, {Though it belong to the King t* make the badge or 
fymbolof his ownfubjetts, yet every Nobleman may give a diftinfl Liver J 
without treafion7\ 

Anfw. True; And this opens the Cafe. A badge of the Kings fnb- 
jects is not the fame thing, with the badge of a fubjects fervant.- But 
the Crofs is not the badge of a humane fubordinate contract or re- 
lation (as City Covenants, or Paftoral particular contracts, &c.) but 
of Chrift ianity it felf, and of the fubjectsbf Chrift as fuch. 

§. 9. p. 553. He faith, Is our worfiiip dire tied to it or may we kneel 
before i>, as Mr, B. allows men may do before a Crucifix? 

Anfw- But if this be not true, or be a deceiving intimation, you 
fhould not allow your felf to write it. My words are in Chrift- Di- 
rect, q. 11.3, p. 876. When I had named 21 Cafes in which an Image 
may not be ufed, (and among the reft, when it is fcandalous, or 
tempting to fuperftition, &c.J I named many Cafes in which an 
Image may be ufed *, and fay {that it is not unlawful to fray before or 
towards an Image, in a Room where they are placed only for Ornament, 
&c-2 Is this to fay, (worjhip may be directed to it ? or that we may 
kneel before # Crucifix ) ) when 1 had before excepted the Images of 

God, 



( 157) 

God, Chrift, &o in worfhip, on feveral reafons ? Doth any Pro- 
teftant doubt of what I aflert ? My Parlour hath on all four fides 
the pictures of our living friends : muft I not pray in that room be- 
caufemyface will be ftiii towards fome of them? Doth he doubt of 
this? Or is not his citing one half of the words as he doth, to deceive 
his credulous Reader, if not worfe ? 

$. 10. He faith, Kneeling be f^e a Crucifix is lawful to bim juppofvig 
the mind be only excited by it. 

Anfw- A Calumny made up by fetting together two fcraps of remote 
fentences. i. Becaufe I fay it's lawful to pray in a room wnere pictures 
fnot any) are before me, for meer ornament,, therefore he feigns me 
to fay, hi lawful to kneel before a Crucifix. 2. And elfewhere I fay, 
It is lawful to be excited to a good thought by feeing a Deaths-head-, or 
any of Cods works, and fo it is by feeing a Crucifix, (which no fober 
Chriitian doubts of) he feigns me to make it an exciting fign to him 
that kneels before it. 

§. 1 1. Yea he makes fo much ufe of his own calumny asp. 354. 
to prove me flrangely partial, Allowing it to be lawful to pray before a 
Crucifix as a medium excitant, as an objecl that ftirs up in us worshipping 
affections, and fo excufe all Papifis from Idolatry that profefs they ufe a 
Crucifix for no other end. 

Anfw Meer repeated forgery, not becoming his profefFion. I ne- 
ver fpake for praying before it, much iefs as an objecl: toftir up 
worfhipping affections : But only that I am not bound to fly at 
prayer from a room that hath only ornamental pictures', and that 
as in the Geneva Bible there be Hiftorical pictures, and few but Turks 
are againft them, it is lawful (I fay not kneeling before them at 
prayer, but out of cafes of fcandal and danger) to be excited by them 
to good affections, and indeed good affections are worshipping af- 
fection*. Dare any Chriftian fay that it is a fin to think reverently 
of God when we fee his works, or fee but a picture of Scripture Hi- 
ftory (as Abraham offering lfaac y Chrift dying and rifing, exej Non- 
conformifts have ftill taken them for Lyers that faid they were a- 
gainft Hiftorical pictures *, and (hewed it in the Geneva Bible. I have 
feen in many pious country Houfesalltheftory of Dives and Lazjtrus 
painted over their Tables, and never heard the good ufe of it ac- 
cufed. But I defirethe Reader to perufe my words, which he citetb, 
Qjeft. 11 1. and judge with what honefty we are accufed. I there fay, 
1. It is unlawful to make any Image of God. 4 It is unlawful to make y 
place or ufe an Image as is like to do mere hurt than good, or to tempt to 

fin: 



cm) 

fin : — — And all fncb Images of creatures as others ufe to give unlawful wor- 
fhip or honour to, when like to tempt others to the life ', as among the Papifls 
the Image of the Crucifix , the Virgin Mary and Angels rhay not be made % 
placed or ufedfo as may tempt any to worship them fitfully as they do. 1 1. It 
is unlawful to place Imtgts in Churches or in fecret before our eyes 
when we are worjhipping God, when it tendeth to corrupt the mind ■— which 
is the ordinary effecl of Images. 12. It is unlawful to ufe Images fcanda- 
toufly, as any of the aforefaid finners ufe them, though we do it not with the 
fame intent : that is, fo as in outward appearance is the fame with their 
ufe, Becaufe fo we (hall difiionbur God as they do, and harden them in fin : 
Therefore Images in Churches or in Oratories in thofe Countries where others 
ufe them fin fully, orjiear fuch Countries, where the fame may harden men 
in their fin, is evil* 21. I think^it unlawful to make an Image or any equal 
inftituted fign to be the publicly common fymbol of the Chriftian Religion , 
though but a profeffing fign fas they make the Crofs.y 

Doth this doctrine jultifie the Papifts ? And p. 876. § 14. I larg- 
ly prove the ufe of a Crucifix (as they do the Crofs in baptifm) to be 
unlawful: which he anfwereth not. Is it not confiftent with all this 
that I fay, [That it* s not unlawful to pray before or towards an Image, in a 
room where Images are placed only for ornament, and we have no refpetl to 
them as a medium or objetl of ourworfhip {except as by accident it's made 
unlawful.) And that (nqt kneeling to them, nor in prayer, but, in tran- 
fient meditation,) it is lawful fo to ufe them biftoric ally as to fiir up in us 
a worfJnpping affetlion.'] If the Papifts do no more, no Proteitant would 
call themldolaters for it. But if they ufe them IdoLatroufly, it makes 
our ufeof them unlawful, when even but outwardly it is like theirs - : 
And fo I fay of the Crofs. This is the Doctors zeal againft Idolatry, 
that it feems would havens all ufed as his Books intimate, till we dare 
ufe the Tranfient Image of the Crofs much worle than he maketh the 
Papifts to ufe Images and Crucifixes in particular. For to ufe them as a 
dedicating common badge of Chriflianity, in our great Covenant with Chrift, 
is more than to ufe them hiflorically and in meditation, or more than to 
pray in rooms adorned with common pictures. Butheknowcth that 
the Papifts give more to Images. 

§. 12. Obj. But what need had you to fay all this of Images ? 

Anfw. That men may underftand it. 1'le tell you that you may fee 
the Candor of our accufers. Dr. R. Coxe Bifhop of Ely confulted 
with Caffander to have had Images in our Churches* 7 he Lutherans fo ufe 
them. Our new Church of England began to fet up Crucifixes over Altars, 
and to pkad more for Church-pictures than heretofore. In 1642. the 

Pariia- 



(*S9) 

Parfiament ordered the defacing all Images of any Perfon of the Tri- 
nity in Churches or Church-yards, (before the King went from them) 
B-caiifel read chis Order and the Church- warden attempted to obey 
it, the rabble of drunken fwearing Journy-men, who were all for 
Conformity, rofe in a tumult with clubs, leeking to kill me and the 
Churchwardens,and knocktdown two Country-men becaufe they were 
our friends (who carried the hurt to their death:) And the Conform- 
ing Clergy were fo much for them, that one of them indicted meat 
the Afllzes, and I was forced to leave the Country. Such rage for Ima- 
ges tempted fome religious men that were againft them, to be more 
cenforious againft theConformifts than I would have them, and to 
run too near the other extream : And after it grew a difpute whether 
the Lutherans were not Hereticks ( of which fee Cafpar Strefo.) The 
remembrance of all this drew me to fay all the Truth which I thought 
ufeful to cure mens over-much cenfuring the Lutherans and the new 
Prelatifts : And now the thanks they give me is to turn the cenfure on 
my felf for faying fo much to excufethem. 

Juft fo did Mr. Pierce by me : My religious neighbours fcrupled Com- 
munion with their neighbour Prelatifts, faying, All the drunkards and 
fwearers and ignorant ungodly people that had no religion, were 
fierce for Bifhops, Liturgy and Ceremonies, and they durft not joyn 
with them while they profaned the Sacrament. I was far from jufti- 
fying them, but to abate their overmuch cenfuring, 1 told them that 
in fome Countries where cuftome had brought fome particular fin 
from under difgrace, we could not judge one gracelefs, whofe whole 
lives elfe were pious, temperate and juft, for fometime committing 
that particular fin ", and it was hard to fay how oft this might fall out : 
As breaking the Lords day in Geneva and Holland, fome petty Oath in 
fome Countries that ufe it, and fuch like. For this charity to the Pre- 
latifts, what doth Mr. Tierce but turn the charge of favouring fuch 
grofs fin againft my felf, as if I had been compounding it with god- 
linefs ? 

1 leave you all therefore hereafter, better to defend your felves. 

§. 13.. About their appointing theCrofsto worl^ Grace morally, and 
that Sacraments work^it not phyfically^ he faith, J mifreprefent or mifapply 
both the Popifli and Proteflant dottrtne of Sacraments.'] And for thefirft he 
faith, It overthrows all that I fay that they all hold that Sacraments worl^ 
grace, ex opere opera to, where there is n* atlual impediment, and it y s he- 
rtfic to fay, They are bare outward prof effing pgw.~} 

Anfw* 



Anfw. Did he think that this is inconfiftent with the opinion that 
they work.it morally ? They diftinguifh between the Principal Agent, 
the inftrumental Operator, and the Receiver. And they fay that the 
Sacrament conveyeth Grace by the will of the Principal Agent (GodJ 
ex opere operato, and hath not its effed e x opere operantis-, And that 
ophs operantis is that which vim habet ex bonitate & devotiont ejus qui 
cperatur, that is, from the Miniftersgoodnefs (And doth not the Eng- 
lijh Canon fay the fame ? ) But opus operatum is that which is effectual, 
modo fiat ficut lex prafcribit, whether the inftrument be good or bad : 
But it mull be ficut lex prafcribit : And when they come to the Recei- 
ver they require in him more than the opus operatum to the effect : viz.. 
that he intend fas Aquinas fpeaketh, 3. q. 68.4.7.) to receive Bap~ 
tifm, which is the beginning of a new life y and that he have faith, a. 8. r. 
ex parte gratia quam quis per baptifmum confequitur, exigitur in fufcipien- 
te fides, exp-trte vero Char aft eris non nee ejf art a eft. The Character is 
received without real Faith, but Grace is not. And what that Cha- 
racter is how little they are agreed fee at large in Wotton de Reconcil. 
Peccat. Durandusj, and the wifeft fay it is but the Relation of one that 
hath received the external tejfera or badge of Chriftianity (which 
none deny. ) And ad 2. he taith, \jhe Church quantum in fe, non in- 
tend* dare baptifmum nifi habentibus reftam fidem, fine qua non eft remifi 
fio peccatorum. Et propter hoc interrogat accedentes ad baptifmum an ere- 
Aant ? And citeth Auftin, that without true faith it is net received to 
falvation. . 

And Art. 9. he concludeth that feeing God doth not compell men to 
right eoufnefs, ifsmanifeft that feigned comers obtain not the benefit of bap- 
ttfm. And ad 3. inter fitte accedentes, he numbers them that come in mor- 
tal fin, net willing to leave it and be conformed to Chrift. 

And your own words imply all this, that the Receiver muft put no hin- 
derance~] while they make the want of neceflary intention, defire, true 
faith, repentance, to be the hinderance, leaving the fubject uncapable 
of the Grace of the Sacrament of Baptifm." 

§. 14. It irketh me to repeat, but you conftrain me: Scotland 
Okam (and then I need not fay how many morej confute Aquinas at 
large for calling Sacraments fomuch aslnftruments giving Grace, as 
heexplainethif, And fo doth Vet. Aliaco Camerac briefly in 4.9. 1. 
B. C concluding that Sacraments are no Caufes of Grace properly, 
but improperly, becaufe Deus in facramentis ndinavit fie agere, non quod 
ipfa facramenta agant< And that a facrament neither by its own vir- 
tue, nor by any virtue given it y is any proper efficient taufe of any difpofi- 

tion 



( i«? ; 

tion irt the foul previous to grace 9 or of grace it felf, hut a condition fine qua 
non, difpofitiv , improperly called Caufa difpofitiva Moralis, non efi 
fettiva fedreceptiva : Yet they grant alfo a Moral objective caufality, 
by fignification. 

Brianfon In 4.. q. i.fol. 6. concludeth (i.doc-J facr amenta non funt 
gratia caufa effcftiva, fed fclttm per modum meritiper cadatur gratia, ci- 
ting Ricardus, Scotus, Aureolus, Franc. Perufiusj &c. againfl: Thorn. & 
Alexand. herein. Yet faith [Baptifmus indiget fide, qua eft difpofitio & 
fundamentum omnium facramentorum, vel in fe ut in adult is, vel in alio ut 
inparvulis. Suarez.de Legib.l. p. c. 6.^.748. Col.Z. deCircumcif \_Nam 
etiam ipfa fides parentum erat conditio neceffaria & fine qua non •, Et ta- 
mendeiiladici non poteft, Quod Gratiam daret Infant i ex opere operato % 
nee quod gratiam contineret • etiam nee caufa juftificans parvulos dici po- 
teft'-, rife late & improprio modo, ficutdicitur de quolibet remedio vel con- 
dition e. fine qua non. 

And Brianfonztfo faith in \>q. 4. doc. 1. fol. 34 Sl*pd ficie recipi- 
entes baptijmum non hah ent gratiam baptifmi, dicunt Scholaftici. 

Yea even Hildebrand in one of his Roman Councils concludeth, that 
the Sacraments of Baptifm and Penance give not pardon to the impe- 
nitent and uncapable. 

Petrus aS.JofephThef univerf. de facram. p. 93. faith, [Sacr amen- 
tum eft fignum fenfibilt divinitus inftitutum, longo tempore durans, fancli- 
tatem aliquam, faltem extemam (that is, Relative feparation to God, 
which is the true Chara&er- with them) conferens, & veram figmficans. 

And p. 10 1. \_Sacr amenta nov a legis confer unt gratiam, pdtjue ex ope- 
re operate & immediate : Duplicem fcilicet, aliam refpondentem dtfpofi- 
tioni, aliam ipfi facramento : cum antiqua adultis nullam conferrent nifi 

ratione difpofitionis Sacrament a nova legis nonproducunt gratiam phy- 

fice, fed tantum moraliter.2 

But I mufl: fpare the Reader : By this he may underftand, 1. That 
tb*y hold not to the opus operatum as efficient of Grace in the Sacra- 
ments of the old Law,and fo not to Sacraments as Sacraments: 2. That 
they put opus operatum againfl: opus operantis, and not againfl the ne- 
ceffary difpofition of the Receiver, which confifteth in Faith, Repen- 
tance, intention, &c 

3. That many of them deny all proper Sacramental caufality of 
Grace. 4-Specially Phyfical. (And Proteftants make them not mcerfigns, 
butinvefting figns.) 5. And ponere obicem is to want neceffary racial 
qualification, and action as aforefaid. 

Y And 



( i*» ) 

And now the Dr. had done well to tell me wherein I was very much 
tfiiftaken. 

§. 15. He next faith, {The Croft is in no fence held to be an inftru- 
ment appointed for conveying Graced} 

Anfw. 1. Not by God, for it is none ofGod*s Ordinances. 2. But 
that by men it is I hare manifefted j if z moral obje^ive moving and 
teaching means may be called an Inftrument : If not, the word 
Inftrument is nothing to our cafe. 1. To work on the foul of thea- 
dulfi by reprefentation, (Ignification, excitation ( as the word doth) 
is to be an operative moral caufe or means : And this the Church 
afcribeth to it (Pref.toLiturg. &c.^ 2. The death of Chrift, and 
the benefits of it, and reception into the Church and State of Chri- 
ftianity, and the fenfe of our Engagement to fight under Chrift's ban- 
ner, &c are Grace*, fome of which is given by excitation and fome 
(the Relation,) by inveftiture. 

§. 16 And now whether I have only invented thefe objections to a> 
mufe and perplex mens conferences^ and this Dr. hath made allfo plain 
that all may venture on it, and he and all Minifters may deny them 
Chriftendom that dare not venture, and call out all from the Mini- 
ftry that be not as bold as he, I leave to confideration. 

He next turneth to Mr. A about bowing, and fo goeth to their Ex- 
communication 



CHAR 



( 1*3 ) 
CHAP. XL 

Whether the Excommunicating Church, or the Excom- 
municated for not Communicating when Excommu- 
nicated be guilty of Schi[?n ? 

§. l. *Ti Heir Canons excorinunic ate ipfo fafto all that fay Conformi- 
X tyis unUvful, lad many fuch like. i. He fakh [The ex- 
communication is not againft fuch as modeftly fcruple the lawfulnefs of 
things impofed ; but thofe xko cb'h^ately affrtv it. 

Anfw. Reader, troft neither him nor me, but read the words. Can. 
3, 4, 5, 6. [Whofoever fijall ajfrm that the Church of England by Law e- 
fiablijbed under his Afajefiy is ut a true and an Apoftolical Church, — le* 
him be excommunicated ipfo fa do. 

Whofoever foall affirm that the form of God's worfhip in the Church of 
England eftablified by the Law, and contained in the Book^of Common- 
prayer is a eorrupt, fuperftitious, or unlawful worjljip of God, or con- 
tained ANT THING in it that is repugnant to the Scriptures, let him be 
excommunicated ipfo fadlo, and not reftored till, &c 

Whofoever flail affirm that any rf the 39 Articles, are in any part fu- 
perftitious or erroneous, or fuch as he may not with a good confeience fub- 
fcribe unto > let him be excommunicated ipfo facfto , and net reftored 
till, &c. 

Whofoever fhall affirm that the Rites and Ceremonies of the Church 0/ Eng- 
land by Law eftablijhed are wicked, antichriftian, or fuperftitious , OR fuch 
as being commanded by lawful authority, men who avre z.ealoufly and Godly of- 
fered may not with any good confeience approve them, ufethem, OR as oc- 
casion requireth fubferibe to them, let him be excommunicated ipfo fadlOf 
and not reftored till he repent and pnblickly revoke fuch his wicked er- 
rours. 

Can. 7. Whofoever JliaM hereafter affirm, that the Government of the 
Church of England under his Majefty by Arch-B'flops, B flops, Be a is, 
Arch-Deacons, and THE REST THAT BEAR OFFICE IN the 
fame, is antichriftian, OR repugnant to the word of God, let himb-j excom- 
municate ipfo facfto, &c. 

Y 2 Can. 



( i*4 ) 

Can. 8. Whofoevtr jhall affirm that the form and manner rf making* 
and confecrating Bijliops, Priefts-or Deacons, cwtaineth ANY THING in 

it that is repugnant to the word of God, let them be excommunicate ipfo 

facto, &c. 

Can.- II. Whofoever fhall affirm — that 'there are within this Realm, 
other Meetings, AJfemblies, or Congregations of the Kings born fubjetlsi 
thanfuch /is by the Law of this Land are-held and allowed, which may right- 
ly challenge to themfelves the Name cf true and lawful Churches, let him be 
excommmunicate ipfo facto, &c. 

And now if the Reader will no more believe the Doctor, it is not 
long of nae> If ail this be no more than to excommunicate them that 
[obfiinately affirm the Ceremonies Antichriflian, impious, or fupcrfiitious^ 
underftanding them is not polTible. 

$. 2. But I confefs they excommunicate not men for fecret thoughts^ 
We thank them for nothing. It is but for telling their judgment. 
And DiiTenters may have many occafions to tell it. The Kings Com- 
million once allowed fomeofus to tell it: The Demands, Accufati- 
ons, calumniating Books and Sermons, &c. may call many to it. 

§. i. He faith, All Excommunication fuppofetkprecedent Admonition. 

Anfw. i. They fhould do lb: The worfe is yours becaufe it doth 
notfo: It only alloweth admonition to repent for his reftoration: 
which made M. Anton. Spalatenfis lay fo much againft it. 

2. If it did oblige you to admonifh us, as you have done by your 
Books, you know that this changeth not our judgments: So that. to 
be excommunicate before the admonition and after comes all to one: 
But indeed when the Law ipfo f alio excommunicateth, the.Lawitfelf 
is the admonition. 

$. 4. He addeth [General excommunications though they be Iatse fen- 
tent i a?, do mt a feci the particular perfons till the evidence be notorious, not 
only of the bare fall, but the contumacy^ 

Anfw. AffeBmg is a word that fignifieth what you pleafe. Ipfo fatlo 
is [for and upon the fall proved, without any fentence ofajudge.~] While 
the faft only is thus made th? full caufe, the contumacy need not be 
proved. It's true, 1. That the fail muft be proved, 2. Andthenthe 
Law is-a fentence and Relatively affefteth the perfon as fentence d; 3. But 
no perfons elfe are obliged to avoid him, till the faB be lawfully publifh-. 
ed. But the man is excommunicate. And 4. Whether the man that 
knoweth the Law and his own Fact be not bound himfelf to avoid 
the Churches Communion, is a great Controvedle : And. the. plain 
truth is, Ific be a juft Excommunication, he is bound to forbear 

Com-. 



( t*5 ; 

Communion in obedience to ft : (As much as a filenced Minifter is- to 
forbear Preaching- J But if it be a fentence unj'ift, and injuftice be 
not fo grofs as to nullifie it, ftillhe maft forbear: But if it befoun- 
juftastobe invalid, he may Communicate till he be executively re- 
jected : (Asonefo unjuftly filenced may preach, if he can : for the 
cafe is much like. J 

The Reader would be difpleafcd if I fhould cite him many Cafuifts 
in fo plain a cafe. 

2. But no man doubteth but the General fentence of the Canon 
fpeaketh the fence of the Church, and doth all that Law-makers can 
do, before judgment : And the Law is norma officii & judicii, obli- 
ging Subjefr and Judge. 

§. 5. It's true that Linwood faith, that a Declaratory fentence, that 
is, A Declaration that fuch a man it already fentenced \ by the Law , is ne- 
ceffary to oblige any to the execution of it on others, or the perfon 
in faro externo. But ft ill the Church hath done her part in Legiflation, 
to oblige asaforefaid. 

$. 6. He faith [Perfons excommunicate are to be denounced fo every fix 
months, that others may have notice of them .] 

j4nfw- 1. But are they not excommunicate then, before they are 
fo oft denounced, yea or at aH; as far as aforefaid ? 

$-. 7. He faith £/ have fully ax fared my own Objection by faying, I 
dm not bound to execute the fentence on my fclf-2 

Anfw. 1. He would not fay that he approveththe anfwer : For if 
he do, he confuteth himfelf, that would have us execute the filencing 
fentence on our felves, and the fentence againft publick worfhip in 
any way but theirs. 

2. My reafon is, becaufe I take the unjuft fentence as invalid .- 
elle I Wfre bcund in fore inter tore . 

3. Butfurethe Church at leaft relaxeth that mans obligation to 
prefent Communion, by (hewing her will, if (he did not oblige him 
to withdraw. 

Read over the words of the Canon, and fee whether they make 
them not as unintelligible and flexible to what fenfe they pleafe, as 
they do the words of the Aft of Uniformity and Liturgy. 

§. 8. As to his two cafes in which the excommunicate may be fchifc 
maticks for not communicating, 1. We queftion not the firft : Juft 
excommunication excludeth none but the guilty. Here then indeed 
is the ftate of our Controverfie. Had he proved that in all the cafes 
before cited, it is juft to excommunicate us, he had done fomewhar, , 
when now for want of it he betrayeth his cau£r. 2i His* 



( \66) 

2. His id. is Uf they form new Churches."] 

Anfw. i. Is forming new Churches and not communicating with the old 
wesatlone't Our prefent queftion is of the later. So that this great 
Accafer feemeth plainly to abjolve all from being bound to Commu- 
nicate with them, who are unjuftly excommunicate, and gather not new 
Churches* 

2. But may not the unjuftly excommunicate that cannot on juffc 
terms be reftored, worfhip God in fome^ublick Church ? Doth fuch 
a wicked fentencebindmento live like Atheifts till death/ or de- 
prive them of their right to ail God's Ordinances? even many Papift 
Do&ors and Councils fay the contrary. And how elfe do you juftifie 
the Church of England againfl the Papifts charge of Schifm? 

$. 9. f. 372. He ftill feemeth to think, that ^Hisown and others 
reafonings may change all the truly honeft Chriftians in the Land to hold alt 
the things imp ofed lawful^] 

Anfw* Thefe thoughts of the Bifhops in 1660. and 1661. have 
brought us all to the pafs that we are at:, And if after 20 years fo 
great experience of the inefficacy of all their Difputes, yea and Pri- 
sons, and after the notice of the nature and different cafes of men, 
they ftill trufl: to bring us to Concord on thefe terms, difputing with 
fuch men is in vain •, The Lord deliver us from them. 



CHAP. 



C**7) 

CHAP. XIL 

Of the Englilh fort of Sponfors, and the exclufion of 
Parents duty. 

$• *4 T^ge ^°* ^ e foth I \^ fever al times mention this as one of the 
JL grounds of the mlawfulnefs of the peoples joyning in Communion 
with hs : yea as the greatefl objettion.~] 

Anfw. Four places of my writings are cited, and all will teftifie 
to him that will read them, the untruth of the Doctors words. This 
is an unhappy courfe of accufations : I can find no word of £ The 
mlawfulnefs of the peoples joyning in Communion with you on this ground*"] 
On the contrary, I have taught men how to make this very action in 
them lawful, viz. By getting if poffible credible Sponfors of the old 
fort, and agreeing with them to be Die Parents Reprefenter, and pro- 
mife as in his name, or at leaft but as his fecond, undertaking the E- 
ducation of the Child if he die or apoflatizje ( which was the old fort:) 
andhimfelf to be prefent and fignifie his confent by gefture, though 
hemaynotfpVsk. 

But I have (hewed, i. That this mult be done befides the Churches 
order, that hath no fuch thing. 2. That fubferibing to the Churches 
order herein is unlawful : 3. That the Church which refufeth the 
Child lawfully offered, ought not to blame that perfon that cannot or 
will not make fuchfhifts, but getteth another Pallor to Baptize him 
whom they finfully refufe. 

But this is not to prove it unlawful to have Communion with you. 
But it's lawful to ufe better alfo when they can, being thus Jtepulfed 
by you. 

§. 2. He faith [The Parents are to provide fuch as are ft to under- 
take that office.'] 

Anfw. 1. No one is fit for it as ufed by the Liturgy, but an A- 
dopter thatfaketh the Child for his own : For he undertaketh the Pa- 
rents work. And it's lis fub judice* whether any others undertaking 
befides a Parent or Owner can prove the Child to be in the Covenant 
as offered, and have right to the feal and benefits: Atheifts and Infi- 
dels Children are unholy, 1 Cor* 7. 14? 

2; If 



( 1*8 ) 

2. If any were fit, few Parents can get fuch, as will underftand- 
ingly and deliberately and credibly promife them to do all that God- 
fathers muft by the Liturgy undertake. I never knew one in my 
life that feemed to the Parent to mean any fuch thing, much lefs to 
do ir. 

I have in my younger time been Godfather to three or four $ But 
we before agreed with the Parents to intend no more than to be Wit- 
nejfes y and the Father to be the Entitler and the undertaker. 

I did in 1640. Baptize two by the Liturgy, (without Croffing) and 
never more in 6. or 7. years after, becaufe of the impofed corrupti- 
ons. Mr. Kettilby the Bookfeller (unlefs his Father had another Child 
of the fame name baptized the fame year)«was one : But his Father 
gave him his name, and prcmifed all his own duty, and his Uncle and 
Aunt Handing as Sponfors, we before agreed that they fhould fignifie 
butWitneJfes and friendly helpers in cafe of need. 

2. But what if the Parents are bid provide fuch f that is no dis- 
charge of their own part, nor are they bound to call their duty on 
others. 

f. 3. He faith fas to theChildstf^k to Baptifm) that the Godfa- 
thers ft and in a threefold capacity, 1. Reprefenting the Parent in 
offering, 2. Reprefenting the Child in promifing, $. In their own as 
undertakers of his education, &c. 

j4nfw- 1. 1 will not till he confute them repeat my proofs that in 
the Church of England's fence the Godfathers are not the Parents re- 
prefentatives at all, nor fpeak in their name. 

2. If they were, then when the Parents both are Atheifts, Infi- 
dels, Hobbifts, fcorners at Godlinefs, Hereticks, the Godfathers 
can reprefent them but as they are, and their own faith entitleth not 
the Child, becaufe they ftand in the perfons of Atheifts, Infidels, &c, 
your Church doth not like this doctrine. 

j. And as to their reprefenting the Child, qno jnre is thedoubt.lt 
cannot be done without fome reprefenting power given them. And 
who gave it them ? 

4. And as to the third Perfon (in this multiform thing) the doubt 
is, whether their undertaking to educate another mans Child be law- 
ful, while he is bound to do ithimfelf? 2. And whether men ufe to be 
ferious in fuch undertakings, which I never knew one perform, nor 
feem to mean it, fave fuch as take poor mens, ktnfmens or dead mens chil- 
dren to keep as their own. 3. And if it be done without ferious in- 
tention, Is it not to make perjury or perfidioufhefs, and prophane 

taking 



( 1*9) 
taking God's name in vain, to be the way of Chriflening and Cove- 
nanting with Chrift in order to falvation ? 

§. 4. This is a great point, and he doth well to handle it dili- 
gently; His explication of it is this, p. 382. [i. The Church hath t lie ^ 
power of the Keys, (Trut •, but not as he and the Brownifts fay, The 
whole Church, but only the P afters.) 

£ 2. They may baptise capable fubjects.2 No doubt of it. 

£ I. Infants are capable fub]tcls7\ 

jinfa. But what Infants? All, orfome? Is this our fatisfa&ion ? 
If it be AH Infants , then how come the Heathens Infants to be 
baptizable and have right, when the Parents have none? Then how 
great a deed of charity isic to bring an Army among them to baptize 
their Children by force ? When even Aquinas and other Papifts fay, 
that Children may not be baptized againft the Parents wills. 

I have elfewhere at large proved, 1. That Baptifm is but the feal- 
ing of the Covenant, and the delivering of pofleffion by Minifterial 
Inveftiture, and not the firft gift or condition of our right to Chrift 
and his benefits. 

2. That in the Adult faith and Repentance and heart-confent are 
the Conditions, which Baptifm after folemnly exprefleth. 

*. That if a true penitent believing confenter die without Baptifm, 
he is faved ; and if the Baptized adult die without faith, repentance 
and heart-confent, he is damned. 

4. That therefore all the adult muft have an entitling condition, 
to give them right, firft initially, coram Deo, to pardon of fin, and then 
to be baptized (which folemnly delivereth their full right) before they 
can be lawfully baptized. 

5. That God dealethnot fo differently with Infants and Adult, 
as to require conditions of right in the later, and none in the former, 
as if they were all born with right. 

6. That the Covenant is made to the faithful and their feed, and 
that Infantscondition of right is that they be children of believers: 
And that if both Parents be Infidels, the Children are unclean, but 
elfe they are holy. And God that confoundeth not the Church and the 
World, confoundeth not their Childrens cafe. 

This 1 have fully proved in my Difp. of Original fin, and Treat, of 
right to Sacraments. 

7. That Baptifm fealeth and delivereth to the qualified fubjeft, the 
prefent pardon of fin, and right to Chrift and life as to adopted 
Children of God. And therefore there muft be fome reafon and 

Z proof 



( I JO ) 

proof of a right to it, more than all Infants in the world have. 

8. That it is not a mans bringing them to baptifm and fpeaking 
feignedly in their name, that giveth them right to a feaied pardon and 
falvation • It muft be one that can prove himfelf entitled to represent 
the Child, which none can that cannot fay He is my own. 

9. If it were otherwife, Atheifts, Infidels, Wicked men, though 
Baptized, could give no right to the feaied pardon, or to the Invefti- 
ture maftateof life, to which they have no right themfelves^ And if 
they reprefent no better Parents, as fuch they can give them no right, 
fave coram Etclefia when they are not infddesjudicati. 

10. Nor doth it fuffice to an Infants right, that the Minuter, or 
Church, be Cnriftians, 

Therefore to tell us that Infant* are right fubjetts, fignifieth nothing, 
till either, 1. He tell us what Infants, i. Or prove that all Infants 
"have right *, which he can never do : And if he could, I would eafily 
prove that all dying infants arefaved, whether Baptized or not ^ As 
I can prove that true Chriftian Infants are. 

§, 5. While he gives us not the lead fatisfa&ion of Infants Right, 
he tells us of difficulties on the other fide j if we lay it on Parents for 
Owners) right. And 1. He tells us of divers mens Opinions*, which 
the Reader will be loth I (hould digrefs to try, having done it fo larg- 
ly in my Chrift. Direcft and Treat, of Right to Sacraments- 

2. He nameth the qualification which I aflert, [A frofeffion of the 
Chrifiian faith not invalidated'} and faith nothing to difable it, but that 
Others m^ rejed it- Others wild Opfpjions named, goes for my Con- 
futation. 

And now I defirethe Reader to fee the Catalogue of the things 
we account finful in Conformity in my fir ft Plea for Peace, and try how 
many of them the Doctor hath fo much as meddled with : And whe- 
ther he think by thefe few touches he hath proved either our Con- 
formity lawful, or our Preaching unlawful, or our Communion with 
thofe Chriftians who are not of his mind herein unlawful.. 

If he fay again, that he meddleth not with Minifters Conformity 
but the Peoples, 1. Note, how he hath pa fled by even thegreateft 
things alfoin their cafe. 2. Whether he meddle not with the Minifters 
cafe who feeketh to prove their preaching unlawful, and fo perfwades 
them to be filent. 3, Whether their cafe (hould not be fo far meddled 
with, as to prove the things which they think finful to be lawful, or their 
preaching unnecelTary , before the endeavours ufed againft them (well 
known J be juftified as needful to the Churches Peace. 

GEA-p: 



( 17* ) 
CHAP. XIII. 

Of the three French Letters which he fubjoyneth. 

$. i. T ,T 7Hat advantage to the Drs. Caufe the three Letters of 
V V the French Divines annexed, can be to any that will 
not be decoyed by meer founds and fhews, I know not: But could 
we know thefe things following, we might better underftand the judg- 
ment of the Writers* 

Queft. i. Whether he that fought their judgment djd make them 
underftand what all our prefent Impofitions and Attsof Conformity 
are? and what alterations are made in the Church of England* fact the 
beginning of Bifhop Lands power ? 

2. Whether he made them truly underftand the difference between 
the ancient Epifcopacy, and the Englijh Diocefan frame in all its 
parts ? 

*. Whether he did put the Cafe as about Subfcribing or Declaring, 
Covenanting or Swearing, Aflent and Confentto all things, and pra- 
ftifing accordingly? or only of living in Communion with them which 
do fuch things ? 

4. Whether he put the cafe as of denying active Communion in the 
practice of unlawful things-, or as denying Communion in the reft 
which are lawful? • 

5. Whether he made them underftand that we are ipfofattotxcom- 
muncate by their Canon for telling our judgment ? 

6. Whether he made them underftand that it was about 2000 Mini- 
fters that werefilenced, and what men are in many of their places? 
and what claim their ancient Flocks lay to many of them ; and what 
men they are, and what they did to prevent all ourdivifions? 

7. Whether he made them underftand whatmeafure of Communi- 
on we ftill maintain with the Church of England and the ParifhChur* 
xhes ? 

8. Whether he put the cafe to them, whether we that haveCommu- 
nion with them arcSchifmaticks, if we alfo have Communion withc- 
thers whom they profecute f 

9. Whether he put the queftion to them, whether we are lawfully 
filenced? and if not, whether rebut pcftantibfu we atebound to forbear 
ourMiniftry? 2 2, 1. Was 



( *7 2 ) 

io. Whether fee made them know that all thf Minifters of England 
as well as we were forbidden to Preach, &c. unlefs they would Con- 
form to that we are ready to prove unlawful ? And if it prove fo,whe- 
ther they fhould all either have finned or been filent in obedience ? 

11. Whether he made them underftand how many thoufands there 
be in -London that cannot have room in the Parifh-Churches and theNon- 
conformifts Churches fet together, but live like Atheifts. 

12, Whether he acquainted them that the queftion is, whe- 
ther all godly diflenters that are caft out, or cannot joyn in thePariflr 
way of Liturgick Worfhip, muft (till their judgments change) give o- 
Ter all publick worfhip of God, and be forfaken of all Teachers ? 

1 $. Whether he acquainted them, how loud a Call we had to preach 
in London fait by the Plague,& then by the burning of the Churches,the 
people being deferted by the Parifh Minifters in thefe fad extremities ? 

14. Whether he acquainted them with the Kings Licences, and our 
being accufed of Schifm, even when Licenfed ? 

15. Whether he acquainted them with what we have faid for our 
felves lately in divers Books $ or they judg'd us unheard ? 

16. Whether they be lingular? or whether it be the judgment of the 
Proteftant Churches in France, that it is a fin for any to preach or pub- 
Kckly worfhip God, when the King, Bifhops and Law forbid them ? : 
And if fo, How long it hath been their judgment ? and why all their . 
Churches ceafed not when prohibited ? 

If not fo, How to know that our filencing Laws and Bilhops muft I 
be obeyed,, and not theirs ? 

There is no undgrftanding their anfwers, till we know how the cafe 
was ftatod. 

§. 2. Mr. Clodes Letter is moderate, and it's like they took the ; 
cafe to be about proper feparation,and fo fay no more in the main than 
fome Nonconformifts have laid againft the Brownifts. But the Dr. hath 
dealt too unmercifully with Mr. Le Maine in publifhing his Epiftle, 
when it was fo eafie to know how few, if any, would believe his ftory^ c r 
but take it for a confirmation, how incredible our accufers arc ? I meah 
his ftory that [_ five .years ago he heard one of the mofl famous Noncon- 
formifls f reach in a place where were three men, and three or fourfcore wo- 
men : he had chofen a Text about the building up the ruins of Jerufaiem,*^ 
for explication cited fclinny and Vitruvius a hundred times, &c~\ I think 
1 fhall never fpeak with the perfon that will believe him: fure I am, 
ZWwknoweththattheNonconformiftsarefche mofl: averfe to fuch 
kind of Pf eaching. And I know not one of them that I can fey ever 

read 



( 173 ) 

read a quarter of Vitruvim : I confefs I never read a leaf of him. This 
Monfieur would do well to tell us yet the name of the man, that if li- 
ving he may be callM to account : But 1 doubt he feil into fome Taber- 
nacle, of which many are erefted in place of the burnt Churches, ana 
perhaps heard the Conformift who had occafion to talk of archite&ure? 
But yet I will not believe that either Conformift or Nonconformift 
would expofe himfelf .to common fcorn by an hundred or twenty fuch 
citations. 

§. 7,. And his defcription of the mens horrible impudence to excommu- 
nicate without mercy the Churchy &c. imagining that they are the only men 
in England, nayintheChriflian world that are yredsfiinatsd to eternal hap- 
pinefs, &c. and then pronouncing them intolerable, fheweth that k:-> not 
us that he fpeakcth of, nor any company that is known to us, neither 
our Separatifts here, nor Anabaptifts, nor fc much as the very Qua- 
kers holding any fuch thing. 

§. 4. And though he faith [He was not at all edified by the Noncon- 
formift s preaching, it followeth not that no others are: Nor that 
none were edified in England or Scotland, while publick Preachers went 
theNonconformifts way. 

§. 5. But becaufe the Doftor chufeth this way, I will imitate him, 
though with the Apology that St. Paul gloried, and give him notice 
of fome Epiftlesof men that judged otherwife of the Nonconformifts. 



CHAP. 



C 174 ) 

CHAP. XIV. 

Epiftles or Teftimomes compared with the Doffors, 
And notes on Mr. Jofcph Glanvile's Book> called 
The Zealous Impartial Proteftaxit, with a Letter 
of his to the Author heretofore (and a Digreffion of 
Doftor L. Moulin.) 

$. 1. ¥Ngeneral, he that will read the Lives of many of the old Non- 
X conformifts (Hilderfliam, Dod, and many fuch, and Bifhop 
iM's Character of Dr. Reynolds, and the late publifhed Lives of Mr. 
fofeph Allen, John Janeway, Dr. Winter, Mr. Macham> Mr. Wadfaorth^ 
Mr.Stuhbsi #?•) will fee better what to judge of them, than by our 
three French Epiftles. Yea Thuanus giveth a jufter Character of ma- 
ny abroad that were of their mind: And John Fox (one of them) of 
more. 

$. 2. And to our three Frenchmen, I will when it will be of more 
ufe than fetming vanity, return you four French-mens Letters to my 
felf, ( Mr. G aches y Mr. Amy raids, Mr. Le Blanks, and Mr. Teftards, 
(and if you will fome Germans too, Calvinifts and Lutherans,) of a quite 
differing fenfe of us Nonconformifts. But Mr. G aches being already in 
Print (by the Duke of Landerdales means) 1660. and j'oyned with one 
of Mr. V Angles, I leave the Reader that defireth to fee both. 

$. 3. But becaufe Mr. J of. Glanvile was one of themfelves here 
(though an Origeniflja mofl triumphant Conformift, and not the gen- 
tleit contemner of Nonconformifts, and famous for his great wit, I 
will repay the Dr. with the annexing one (among many Cince) of his 
Letters to my (elf ^ which yet indeed 1 do not chiefly to ballancethe 
Drs. but to help the Reader to understand Mr. Glanvile and his poft- 
humous Book, which 1 think not meet to pafs by without fome Anim- 
adverfions. 

Though I have great reafon to hope that dying fo fbon after it and 
his preferment, the experience of the Vanity of a flattering World 
might help to fa ve him from impenitence.- As I have read in divers 
credible writers, it waswithDr.>W<wJ!wy Sntl\ffe\ that on his Death- 
bed 



( 175,; 

bed he repented that he had written fo much againfl: the Reformers 
called Puritans, 

I perceive D.\ StH'wgflcet marvelleth, that m/ own expectations 
of approaching Death do not hinder me from writing what I do for 
the Nonconformifts*, whereas the truth is, had not pain and weaknefs 
kept me from my yoiuh as in the continual profpeet of the Grave and 
the next life, I had never been ; ike to have been fo much again/1 Con- 
formity, and the prefent Difcip! me of this Church (thatis, theirwant 
of Difcipline) as I have been •, For the World might have more flat- 
tered me andbyafTed my judgment, and my Confcience might have 
been bolder and lefs fearful of fin*, And, though I love not to dif- 
pleafethem, I malt fay this great truth, that I had never b:en like 
to have lived in fo convincing fenfible experience of the great diffe- 
rence of the main body of the Conformifts from themoft of the Non- 
conformifts, as to the ferioufnefs of their Chriftian Faith, and hope 
and practice, their vi&ory over the flefh and world, &c. I mean both 
in the Clergy and Laity of mine acquaintance! O how great a diffe- 
rence have 1 found, from my youth to this day? Though I doubt not 
but very many of the Paffive Conformable Minifters f to fay nothing 
of the lmpofersj have been and are worthy pious men *, and fuch 
as would not perfwade their hearers, thit the Jefuits firfl brought in 
fpirituM prayer: And I had the great bleffing of my Education near 
fome fuch, in three or four neighbour Parifhes. 

§. 4. It grieved me to hear of Mr. GlanviWs death, for he was 2 
man of more than ordinary ingeny, and he was about a Collection 
of Hiftories of Apparitions, which is a work of great ufe againfl 
our Sadducees, and to ftabllfh doubters, and the beft mans faith hath 
need of all the helps from fenfe that we can get : And I feared left that 
work had perilhed. with him ; But 1 gladly hear that by the care of Dr. 
//. More (that worthy faithful man of peace, who never fhidied pre- 
ferment) it is both preferred and augmented. 

And as for his Origenifme, as I like itnot T folconfefs in matters 
of that nature, I can better bear with the venturoufnefs of diflenters, 
than hereticators can do. 

But when 1 faw this Rag. called a Letter left behind him, my grief 
for him was doubled: And 1 faw what caufe we have all to fear the 
fnares of a flattering world, and what caufe to pray for Divine pre- 
fervation, and for an unbyafled mind, and a-humble fenfe of our own 
frailty, that we may neither over-value profperity^ nor our own under- 
{landings. I did 



( 17* ) 

I did not think that he that had wrote the Vanity of Dogmatizing could 
fo foon have come toperfwade men in power, that diffenting from 
Our Churches dogmatizing and impofed words, formes and ceremonies was 
worthy of fo ievere a profecution of us, as he defcribeth : and that 
all their danger is from the forbearing fuch profecution of us^ and 
that (though for their own ends be could abate us fome little mat- 
ters,) the only way to fettled peace is vigoroufly to execute the Laws 
againlt us. 

He 1 that can think the filencing, and imprifoning of about 2000 fuch 
Minifters, is the way to bring this Land to Concord, hath fure very 
hard thoughts of them incomparifon of Conformifts. And that you 
may fee how little his judgment againlt fuch fhould weigh with o- 
thers, who is fo lately changed from himfelf, 1 will give you here 
one of feveral Letters which 1 had from him, and leave you to judge 
whether he have proved that he was much wifer at laft than when he 
wrote this? or whether his character of me agree with his motion to 
filence and mine all fuch ? I am fo far from owning his monftrous 
praifes, that 1 fear I offended him with fharply rebuking him 
for them- But left his wit and virulence here do harm, I give it you 
to fhew the unconftancy of his judgment; or if he would have ex- 
cepted me from his feverities, Imuftprofefs that / believe the moft of 
the Tsfonconformable Minifters of my acquaint/wee are better men than my 
/elf; and therefore his excefTive praife of me, is the condemnation ana 
ihame ofhis-perfecuting counfel. 

§. 5. As to his praife of the Bilhops Writings againft Popery, I 
had rather magnifiethan obfeure their deferts: But I am not able to 
believe that the old ones who write to prove the Pope Antichrift, &c 
and the new ones who would bring us to obey him as Patriarch of the 
Weft and principium nnitatis Catholic*, were of one mind, becaufe both 
are called Proteftants, and that fuch asBifliop Bramhall and the reft 
of the defenders of Grotim, were of the fame judgment with Bifhop 
Vfoer, Bifhop Morton, Bifhop Downtime, &c. nor that Grotius, who 
defcribeth a Papift to be one thatfiattereth Topes as if all were right which 
they J aid and did, did difclaim Popery in the fame fenfe as the old 
Church of Englanddid. Two men may cry down Popery, while one 
of them is a Papift or near one in the others fenfe. 

As to the folly of calling that Popery which is not, I have faid 
more againft it in my Cath. Theologie than he hath done. 

And as tc his excufe of an ignorant vicious fort of Minifters be- 
caufe no better will take fmall Liv-ings J It is not true; Xhefilenced 

Noncon- 



( 177 ) 

Nonconformifts would have been glad of them, or to have preached 
there for nothing .- The tolerating of ignorant fcandalous men were 
more excufable, if better were not fhut out that would have taken 
fuch places. But it's notorious that for the intereft of their faction 
and prosperity, they had rather have the ignorant and vicious, than 
the ableft and moft laborious Nonconformift ; Bifhop Morley told me, 
when he forbad me to preach, that It was better for a place to have 
none, than to have me; when I askt him, Whether I might not be Suffered 
in fome place which no one elfe will take-'} Moft of the old Nonconform ifts 
were fuffered by connivance in fmall obfcure places, which was the 
chief reafon why they fet not up other meetings, which Dr. Sul- 
lingfieet thought they avoided as unlawful, becaufe forbidden. 

§.6. And as to his excufe by blaming ill Patrons, I would know then 
by what true obligation all men in England are bound to commit 
the Paltoral conduct of their Souls to fuch men only as our English 
Patrons chufe f 

§. 7. And when he fo blameth the tepidity and irreligioufnefs 
of the Members of their own Church, I would know, 1. Whether all 
men that are more ferioufly religious mult be forfaken by us, and 
ruined by them, if they be not of their mind and form ? 2. And 
whether tfee numbers of the irreligious that are for their way, and 
the numbers of the religious that are againft it, fhould not rather 
breed fome fufpicion in them, than engage them to ruine fo many 
fuch men. 

$. 8. And when page $. he confefTeththattheywW is their Chur- 
ches ftrength and Government, and how contemptible words, paper, ar- 
guments and excommunications are without force *, doth he not fhame their 
whole caufe, and (hew that it is not the fame Government which the 
Church ufed for many hundred years, which they defire ? and that 
their whole power of the Keys which they talk fo much for, feems 
tothemfelvesadeadanduneffectual thing? while we Nonconformifts 
defire no coercive power, but to guide Confenters. 

J. 9. As to his project to fave religion under a Papift King, 
if the Dean and Chapter may but chufe the Bifhop, I leave it to 0- 
ther mens confideration- 
* But I give you his Letter to me, becaufe page 34. He frith, 
{The greatefi part of thofe that now fcatter and run about do it out of 
Humour or Fancy, or Faction, or Interefl, or Animofity, or defire of being 
counted godly, not really out of Confcience and Conviction of duty : and 
theft the penalties duly exacted woula (bring bacl^ (with much more fharp 

A a and 



( i?8 ) 

and cruel,) As if he knew the confciences of the molt .* But fee how 
much otherwife he lately thought of fome. 

Agapetus Diacott. ad Juftiitian. Adhort. cap. j J. {Epifcopls vi & gladio 
invitos regent ibut qnam Regibus magis congrna.'} 

NOmIZe 7m $&7iKivuv a<r$cLk6)(, ontr Wwtw ak<*wh; rff dr&§cl7rzov> &£+ 
Exiftima tunc regnare te tuto, cum volentibus imperas ho minibus. Qued 
enim invito fubjicitury [edit tones molitur , capta occafione* Quod vero 
vinculis benevolentia tenetur, fir mam fervat erga tenentem obfervantiam. 

i Pet. 5. 1,2, 3,4. The Elders which are AMONG you I exhort, 
who amalfo an Elder and awitnefs of the J Offerings of Chrift, and alfo a 
partaker of the Glory that Jhall be revealed. Feed the Flock^of God which 
is among yott y taking the overfight thereof, not by conflraint but willing- 
ly -, Net for FILTHY LVCREy but of a ready mind : Neither as being 
Lords over Gods heritage, but being enf ample s to the Flocks And when the 
chief Shepherd Jhall appear, ye fhaU receive a Crown of Glory that fadetk 
not away. 2 See Dr. Hammond on the Text. 



Ut.Glath 



( ^79 ) 
Mr. Glanviles Letter. 



Reverend and moft 
Honoured S*r, 



c 



I Have often taken my pen in hand with a defign to fignifie to you, 
how much I love and honour fo much learning, piety, and ex- 
emplary goodnefs as you are owner of \ And how paffionately defi- 
4 rous I have been, and am, to be known to a perfon with whom none 
'hatha like place in my higheft efteem and value: But my affecti- 
ons andrefpects dill growing infinitely too big for mine expreffion, 
4 I thought J ihould but difparage them, by going about to reprefent 
4 chem. And when I fate down toconfider, how I might moft advan- 
4 tagioufly fet forth my regards, and high fenfc of your great deferts, I 
4 always found my felf confounded with fubject. And the throng of mine 
4 affections, each of them impatient to be firft upon my paper,hindred 
4 one another's gratification. Great paffions are difficultly fpoken : 
4 And 1 find my felf now fo pained with the fenfe that I cannot write 
4 futeably to the honour I have for you,that I can force forbear throw- 

* ing away my pen *, being near concluding, that 'tis better to fpeak 

* nothing in fuch a fubject, than a little. But when I confider you as 
4 a perfon that have high affections for thofe excellent qualification?, 
4 which in the higheft degree are your poffeflion, and futeably refent 
4 the worth of thofe that own them •, I am incouragM to think that 
'you may conceive how I honour you (though my pen cannot tell it 
4 you) by reflecting upon your own eftimateof thofe, that are of the 
4 higheft form of learning, parts, and exemplary piety \ or, more 
4 compendioufly, fuch in your judgment, as 1 take you for, Incompa- 
rable. And yet I have a jealoufie that that will not reach if, for 
4 though 1 think your judicious efteem of fuch, cannot be furpafTed ^ 
4 yet I am apt to think, that none ever got fuch an intereft, and ho'd 
4 upon your paffions, as hath the object of my admiration, on mine. 
4 Nor yet can 1 rebuke them as extravagant, though at the higheft, fince 
4 they take part with my fevereft judgment, and were indeed inflamed 
4 by it. And Iprofefs I never found my felf fo dearly inclio'd to thofe 
4 of my neareft blood, or fo affectionately concern'd for my moft be- 
4 loved friends and acquaintance, as for you, whom I had never the 
'happinefstoconverfewichbutin your excellent writings, nor ever 

A a 2 4 often 



(i8o ) 

4 often faw, but in the Pulpit. Yea, I fpeak unfeignedly, Ihaveal- 
4 ways interefled my feif more in your vindication when your unrea- 
4 fonable prejudiced enemies have malign' d you , and delighted my 
4 felf more inyourjullpraifes from thofethat know you, than ever 
4 my felf-love or ambition could prompt me to do in any cafe of 
1 mine own. Sir, I hope you believe that I fpeak my moll real fenti- 

* ments, and do not go about to complement you. For I mull: be very 
4 weak and inconfiderate, did I think to recommend my felf to fo much 
4 ferious wifdom, by fuch childifh fooleries. Therefore ifmyexpref- 
4 fions favour any thing above common refpeft, I befeech you to be- 
4 lieve, 'tis for that their caufe is not common ^ but as much above 
4 ordinary, as their ofyeft. I know your humility and remarkable 
4 felf-denyal will not bear to read, what 1 cannot but fpeak, as of- 

* ten as I have occafion to mention your great worth and merits. How- 
4 ever I cannot chufe but here acknowledge, how much I am a debtor 
c toyour incomparable writings. In which, when you deal in pra&i- 
4 cal fubje&s, I admire your affectionate, piercing, heart-affe&ing 
4 quicknefs : And that experimental, fearching, folid, convi&ive way 
4 of fpeaking, which are your peculiars *, for there is a fmartnefs ac- 

* companying your pen that forces what you write into the heart, by 
4 a fweet kind of irrefiflable violence *, which is fo proper to your fe- 
4 rious way, that 1 never met it equal'd in any other writings. And 
c therefore I cannot read them without an elevation, and emotions 
4 which I feldom feel in other perufals. And when you are ingag'd in 
4 do&rinaland controverfal matters, I no lefs apprehend in them your 
4 peculiar excellencies. Ifindaftrength, depth, concinnity, and cohe- 
4 rence in your notions, which are not commonly elfewhere met with- 
4 all. And you have no Jefs power by your triumphant reafon upon 
1 the judgments of capable, free inquirers *, than you have upon their 

* afFe&ions and confeiences in your devotional and practical difcour- 
4 fes. And methinks there is a force in your way .of arguing, which o~ 

* verpowers oppofition. Among your excellent Treatifes of this na- 
ture, your Rational confirmation of that grand principle of our Re- 

* ligion, the Sacred Authority of Scripture *, your folid dependent no- 
tions in the bufinefs of j unification, and your ftriking at the Root of 
4 Antinomianifm in them, which I look on as the canker of Chriftiani- 

* ty, and have always abhorrM as thefhadow of death ; And your ex- 
cellent Catholick, healing indeavours*, Thefe I fay, deferve from 
4 me particular acknowledgments. I profefs theloofe, impertinent,' 
' unfound, cobweb arguings of the moll that I had met with in the 

4 Mat- 



( i8i ) 

4 Matter of the Divine Authority of Scripture, had almoft occafioned 
4 my (tumbling at the threfhold, in my inquiries into the grounds of 
4 my Religion. For I am not apt to rely on an implicit faith in things 
4 of this moment. But your performances in this kind brought relief 
4 to my ftaggering judgment, and triumph' t over my hefitancy. As 
4 they did alfo to an excellent perfon a friend of mine, who was fha- 
4 ken on the fame accountsthat I was. And we are both no lefs ob- 
liged by what you have done in the other things formentioned. V, 
4 Iprofefs 1 judge fo rational, that I cannot but wonder, almoft to 
4 ftupor, to behold the fierce, though feeble onfets of your cankerM 
4 fiery opponents; whofe writings againlt you fmoft of them) feem 
c to me to be indited by nothing but fpleen and choler. Nor have I 
'been able to afcribe the ingaging of fo many virulent pens againft 
4 you, to any other^caufe than the indeavours of Satan to hinder the 

* fuccefs which your powerful pen hath had againft the Dark Kingdom. 
4 And the fpirit that I have perceiv'd to animate fome of their wild 
4 ravings hath confirmed me in that belief, that it was the great Abad- 
' don that infpir'd their undertakings. 1 thought e're this to have gi- 
4 ven you a more pubiick fpecimen of mine affections by indeavour- 

* ingfomewhat in your vindication againfl: the calumnies, and feeble 
4 arguings of fome of thofe fiery Afiailants \ But colhteral occafions, 
- c and other ftudies have hitherto diverted me : Yet I fhall not forget 
*■ my obligations, aflbon as I can be mafter of convenient time and 
c opportunities for the performance. But I fee my paper warns me •, 
4 And though /fhouldpleafe my felf by a larger expreflion of my re- 
4 fpects, and fenfe of your high defervings from every one that hath 

* had the happinefs to be taught by you, either from the Prefs or Pul- 
4 pit ; yet / dare not be fo rude inthisfirft Addrefs, as to betrou- 
' biefome and importunate. / know your occafions are fucb, as that 
4 they cannot bear a long divertifement. I had feveral times defign'd 
4 at London to have taken the boldnefs to have waited on you, but the 
4 confideration, how you were conftantly ingagM inbufinefs, prevent- 
4 ed the execution of thofe intentions. And about three years fince 
4 1 came from Oxford on purpofe to Kederminjler^ to fee you there, 
4 and hear you preach j both which I was happy in. But you were then 
' fo bufie in the company of feveral Minifters that were at your houfe, 
4 that I could not gain an opportunity of making way for a future ac- 
quaintance. If I were fure that you were lefs incumbred now, and 
' that you made any confiderable ftay in the Country, I would make a 
4 journey on purpofe to wait on you. I have with this fent you r. fmall 

'Dif- 



(i8 2 ) 

Difcourfeof mfneown, of which I defire your acceptance. For the 
fubject and defign, I know it will not difpleafe you. And for the 
management, I'me confident you will not quarrel with it, becaufeit 
is not lb popular as it might have been, when you (hall know,that 'twas 
intended for thofe of a Philofophick Genius. I durft not (Sir,) be 
any longer troublefbme, and therefore fhall conclude with this pro- 
feffion, that the freedom of your fpirit, the impartiality of your in- 
quiries, the Catholicknefs of your judgment and affections, the 
peaceablenefs, and moderation of your principles, the generolity 
and publick fpiritednefs of your difpofitton, the exact, uniform bo- 
linefs of your life, and your indefatigable induftry for the good of 
fouls, excellencies which I never knew fo coinbinM in one ; have fo 
endear'd you to me, that there is not that perfon breathing that hath 
fuch a ihare in the affections, and higheft value of, 

Afoft excellent 5/r, 
tne of the meanefl, though tnoft Jim ere •, 
of your a f eft tonate lovers, and admirer s t 
Sept. 1.61. 



Jof GlanvilL 



CHAP. 



CHAP. XV. 

Seme Notes on the Book, called the Lively Pi&ureo/ 
Dr. Lud. Moulin 3 and his Repentance fubferibed 
hy Dr. Simon Patrick, Dean of Peterborough, and 
Dr. Gilb. Burnet. 

§. 1. T Had ta v ken no notice of this Book, had not the Author by 
J. citing my words againft Dr. L. Moulin^ juftifying his Cha- 
ra&er,made me a party. Therefore I (hall impartially fpiak my judg- 
ment of him and the accufation, left I be thought to own all that the 
Waiter fpeaketh of him, andfotobeasguiltyofuncharitablenefsas he 
feemtth to me to be. I honour the name for the fake of his famous 
Father, and his worthy Brother Peter, yet living, who by his Anfwer 
to Philanax Anglicus, &c. hath well deferved of all Proteftants : And 
his worthy Brother Cyrus, and his very worthy Son now dead : And 
1 truly believe that Dr. Lewis was a fincere honeft- hearted man, 
though Dr. Stilling fleet teem to diflike my giving him that title. And 
I will tell you why I think fo. 

§. 2. I ever obferved that his faults lay in his weaknefs, and not 
in wickednefs: 1. He was not a man of an accurate diftinguifhing 
head, and fo was apt to take verbal Controverfies for real. 2. And 
it was no fingular thing in him, that hereby he was led by the authori- 
ties which he moft valued, to think that the differences between the 
RemonftrantsandContra-remonftrants were much greater than they 
are, and Arminianifm as it was called, to be a more heinous thing than 
indeed it is. $. And whenhe thought that God's Caufe fas Bmdxvar- 
dine called it) was fo deeply engaged againft fuch Opinions, who 
can wonder if be was zealous againft them ? 4- And then he had a hafty 
raflmefs in fpeaking what he thought was true and necefTary, when 
fometimesit was not well tryed, and fometime it was in an imprudent 
manner and time : And fo in his haft ran into the temerities and mifc 
takes which Mr. DaiHe and 1 did blame him for. But I never percei- 
ved that he had more jaffion (much his fury) than other ordinary dif- 
puters, but a more rafh and bluftering way of uttering his mind, fome- 
times and in fome Cafes, where he thought Religion much concerned. 
He had fo fervent a love to truth, that he fometime rufht upon miftakes 

that 



f 1*4} 

that wore the vizor of it, and then truth Creator fuppofed) whatever 
it coft him he would fpeak. 5. I ever obferved it was in his too ex- 
treme oppofition to fomereal errour or crime, that he was carried 
into his temerities. 6. And I never found that he was a worldling, 
nor finned by the preference of worldly intereftj Anddoubtlefs the 
love of worldly profits, honours and pleafures* are more dangerouf- 
ly* contrary to the love of God, than fome fafli uncharitable words 
and cenfures in a Caufe which he thought was Gods. 

§. 3. Yea I found him more patient of confutation, contradiction 
and reproof than moft men that ever I difputed with, his Zeal which 
you call fury being far more for God than for himfelf. I began with 
him about 24 years ago, confuting his Latine Book of Juftification a- 
gainft his Brother Cyrus. I wrote a fecond time againft him in the 
Preface cited by his Pitture-drawer, about Univerfal Redemption, 
f and had faid much more in a Book of Univerfal Redemption, going 
to the Prefs, which I caft by becaufe Mr. Dailies came then out, 
which had the fame teftimonial part and more which I intended.) Yet 
I never heard that the Dr. gave me any uncivil or uncharitable word, 
nor did he ever reply to either of thefe Books ^ nor fignified any abate- 
ment of his love. And I think this fhewed a forgiving mind. 

f. 4. But it's intimated, that this was becaufe we agreed in other 
things? I anfwer, we disagreed alfo even about Church-Govern- 
ment, which was the dividing Controverfie of thofe times. The Dr. 
was zealous for the Magiftrates Power in Er*ft*u fenfe, and went ra- 
ther further than Dr. Stillingfreet in his Irenicum : And as I was before 
againft him, fo after this, about 12 years ago, I wrote that Book a- 
gainft him about the Magiftrates Power in Church-matters, in which I 
called him Myfmcere friend, thinking [metre friendly confiftent with 
iuch a difference and an open Confutation. (And if the contrary muft 
be repented of, I hope fuch charity is no crime.) This third Booka- 
gainfthimalfohe took patiently, and without breach of Love. 

And when I laboured to perfwade him to retract his Writings a- 
gainft Excommunication, though he held ftill to his Conclufion, and 
thought that the great work that God called him to in the World, 
was to difcover the Papal and PrelaticalUfurpation of the Magiftrates 
power under the name of Ecclefiaftical, yet I made him coniefs all the 
matter that I pleaded for, and he made me fee that his errour lay 
moft in meer ambiguous words> which he had not accuratenefs enough 
to explicate. Ail this patience fignified not uncharitablenefs, rage or 
fury. And 1 obliged him not by benefits or praife, but ufually chid 

him 



( iBs) 

him for his eagernefs for his own indigefted conceptions \ nor gave 
him any thanks for his indifcreet and exeeffive praifes afterwards given 
me in his Patronusbona ftdei. Upon all this I would put fome quefti- 
ons to the fober thoughts of the Author of his Picture. 

i. Whether there be not as great figns of fmcerhy, humility and 
patience in fuch a behaviour, and in that great love which he had to 
all that he thought Godly men, (though he too hardly judged of o- 
thers for that which he thought great errour and fin) as in thofe than 
cannot bear a juft defence of diflenters agsinft their unjuft accufa- 
tions, nor endure men to tell why they rather naffer than Conform. 

2. Whether he that maketh him fo very 
bad a man * and incredible a lyar for too *P*gttx A win-Writo 
rafh cenforioufhefs of diflenters, and fome am ? ^^T' i{ noz u ma f! 
untruths vented in rafh zeal, do not tempt Z£^% u *£% 
men to give as odious titles to thofe Reverend men , if they be of his mind, 
perfons who go very far beyond him in un- and vilific the beftif they be 
truths and uncharitable cenfures? And w he- of another, p. 27. He hath 
ther they that were for the filencing and ut- SUS3* A Sfc£ 
ter ruining or about 2000 Minilters, and nies: with more fuch. 
call'd to Magiflrates to execute the Laws 

againft them, and that unchurch all the Reformed Churches which 
have not a continued fucceflion of Diocefan B.fhops 7 (hew, not as 
much uncharitablenefs as he did that defcribed fome too hardly ? 
And whether moflofthe Books written againft me by Conformifts, 
(fuch as the Bifhop of Wore eft er^s Letter, the Impleader, Mr. Hinlehy, 
and many morej be not much fuller of untruths in matter of fact 
than the Drs? But yet I think it a fin to give them fuch a" Character 
as this, and render the perfons as incredible lyars, becaufe errour, in- 
tereft and faction made fome fo unadvifed. 

3. If it deferve fuch a Character to cenfure Arminians as dangerouf- 
ly erroneous and befriending Popery ? whether you do not confe- 
quently fo ltigmatize the old Church of England, before Bifhop Laud's 
time? Even Arch-bifhop Whitgift, Bifhop Fletcher, and the reft who 
drew up the Lambeth Articles, Arch bifhop Abbot and the Church in 
his time (except fix Bifhops, &o) King James, and the whole Church 
asconfenting by fix Delegates to the Synod of Dort : And alfo that 
Synod and all the Forein Reformed Churches that conferred to it? 
And is not this more than Dr. Moulin did ? 

4- And are they not then to be accordingly ftigmatized, who on 
the other fide make the Calvinifts as odious, accufing them of Blafphe- 

B b my, 



my, Turcifme, and doing as much againft them as Dr. Heylin in the 
Life of Arch-bifhop Laud tells us was done in England on that 
account. 

5. And if iuch hard thoughts of Arminians as furthering Popery 
deferve your Charadter, whether by confequence you fo brand not all 
thofe Parliaments who voted againft it accordingly, and made it one 
of the dangerous grievances of the Land? And is not that as faulty 
as for Dr. Moulin too much to blame you ? 

6. Yea I doubt you ftigmatize thus fo great a part of Chriftians 
in all the World as I am loth to mention : fo rare is it to hear of any 
Country, where they are not fo much guilty of feds and factions, as 
by education and intereft to run in a ftream of uncharitable cenfures 
of one another, fpeaking evil of more than they underftand, as 1 have 
proved in my Cathol. Theolog. about this fubject. 

7. Seeing it is above 20 years fince I wrote that againft Dr. Moulin 
which you cite, and he never found fault with it, nor juftified his mi- 
ftakes, may 1 not think that he was convinced and repented ? And you 
that praife his death-bed repentance, fhould not Characterize him by 
failings twenty years repented of ? 

8. How do you know that the Dr. repented not of his too hard 
words of you till his death-bed ? You are miftaken? In his health I 
more than once blamed him, 1. For his cenfure of Dr. Stillingfleet and 
the other particular perfons, whofe worth was known, and had de- 
fended well of the Proteftant Churches ^ 2. For his extending thofe 
cenfures to the Conformifts and Church which belong to fome parti-, 
cular perfons, and the molt are not guilty of, And 3. For his Book of 
the fewnefs of the faved, as prefumptuous : And as far as I could 
then difcern he repented of them all, but laid the ill Title-page of the 
lafton the Book-felier : And he ftill thought of Caufes and Parties as 
very different, he owned not his harfh words or cenfures aforefaid. 
I found him not raging nor impenitent. 

9. Doth not your own defcription of his great readinefs to beg for- 
givenefs, andlothnefs to own anything uncharitable, fhewa better 
fpiritthan your pitture doth defcribe ? 

10. Is not he as like to be a fincere man who aaketh forgivenefs of 
his faults fralh cenfures and words) as he that repenteth of his for- 
mer duties, his Pacificatory principles and Writings. Surely to re- 
pent of evil is a better fign than to repent of good- 

1 1. Becaufe you call us to acquit our felves by difowning Dr. Mou- 
lin, may we not difown both his faults and our own, without difown- 
ing 



C i«7 ) 

ing God's grace and mens piety and worth ? would you be fo dif- 
ownedfor your own faults? 2. And how fhouid Idifown hisrafhnefs 
better than to write what I wrote againfthim, and fay what I faid to 
him ? would you have a Synod called to reprove every rafh word ? 

12. Bccaufe you juftly value mens repentance, I will be thankful to 
you to further mine, and give me leave to further yours. Only 1 fore- 
tell you that your words (hall not offend me by their hardnefs t if they 
have but truth, and you call me to repent of my fin and not of ferving 
God. I do not repent of defending Truth and Duty : nor of feeking 
to fave the Reader from the infection of falfe accufation and arguings 
which would deftroy his charity and innocency, by the fulleft mani- 
fefting the faljhood and evil of the words and deeds which are the In- 
ftruments- 1 take it to be a wrong to thofe that I would preferve, 
to extenuate the danger of the fnare or poyfon, on pretence of gen- 
tlenefs to the Writer. But I deal with the Caufe and defire none to hate 
the perfon ; nor would 1 diminifli the honour due to him for his parts 
orvertuesj but rather have all men love and magnifie all the good, 
while they diflike the evil \ and would fave the Reader at as eafie a rate 
to the Writer as I can .• But thathefhould not be related to his falfe 
orfinful words or deeds is not in my power to effe&. But though I 
repent not of neceflary truth, if I any where miftake , or fpeak 
more truth than is profitable, or in language by fharpnefs more apt to 
do hurt than good, of this 1 repent, and ask forgivenefs of God and 
man *, As I do if I fpeak fo fhort of truth, as with Eli to make fin 
feem fmaller than it is. 

And now I hope you will lore your own duty of Repentance better 
than another mans, and will not be angry if 1 feekto help it. 

1. Do you not perceive that while you paint the Dr. as an incredi- 
ble raging diffracted lyar, and praife his repentance for rafo words 
of others, that you commit the fame rafhnefs your felf againft him ? 
If you cannot fee your own face, let any impartial Reader be your 
glafs, and ask him whether you do not that which you are condemn- 
ing? 

2. You feem to vindicate the Book called the Friendly Debate, I 
fhall (hortly further tell you of fomewhat in it to be repented of. And 
if partiality made not repentance a very difficult work you would have 
no need herein of a Monitor. But you may think me partial, though 
I acknowledg your civilities tome.* I can (hew you a Manufcript of 
one both impartial an j truly judicious, even the late Judge Hale, cx- 
prefling fo great diflike of that Debate and theEccl. Policy, as tend- 

Bb 2 ing 



C 188 ; 

mg to the injury of Religion it felf, that he wifheth the Authors 
would openly profefs that they write for themfelves, and no more fo 
abufively pretend it is for Religion. 

3. You fay in this Picture that [IfL. du Moulin had that honefl zeal 
inhhnto which he pretends, he would have handled Mr. Baxter a* fmart- 
ly, &c. 

Anfw. There may be other reafons than want of honefl zeal: But do 
you not here (hew that it is the perfons more than his aft that offended 
you in his reproof? Could you judge it honefl zeal had it been too- 
thers? pag. 16. 

4. You fay, p. 17. He hath fomething of the Nonconformifts in 
him, andfor that reafon he fpareth him : 

Anfw* Do not Nonconformifts differ from Eraflians ? Did not I write 
againft his opinion of Church-Government I- And did he not bear 22 
years ago when Conformity was not in our Controverfies. 

5. You fay of [the party that come nearefl the dottrine of Calvinifts and 
Puritans, (chough you fay you mean fuch as D. M. your Reader muft 
iuppofe you mean the Nonconformifts^ that [they are the true Caufes 
of all our prefent evils. — For the late War was raifed, — by the very befl of 
you, &c.~] If you mean, as you feem, it's fomewhat extraordinary to 
perfwade men to believe this in the fame Land and Age that the War 
was raifed in ; And for one to do this that had the firft General of the 
Horfe in the Earl of Effex Army, his Patron a few doors from him,and 
the Lord Hollis a Colonel nearer him till lately, and the Lord Prefident 
of his Majefties Privy-Council a Colonel not far off him,and many more . 
known Conformifts, who could ail quickly have fatisfied him how few 
Nonconformifts were Members of Parliament or Commanders in the 
Army when the War began, and that it was betwnen two parties of 
Conformifts that the Wars began, as I have proved againft Mr.Hink- 
ley, and can fullier do when there is need. Which party is rrioft obli- 
ged to repentance you may difpute with thofe that are fit for it.* But 
if vour intimation be untrue, it is of another nature, and degree than 
any of Dr. Moulins- I confefs one party did in many Parliaments be- 
fore, and in that, accufe Bifhop Laud and his new followers, 1. Of 
Innovations, 2. Of Arminianifm, *. Of promoting abfolute arbitra- 
ry Government againft the Subjects Property and Liberty, 4. And of 
promoting Popery. But if this party were not Conformifts of the 
Church of England, the Bifhops, Clergy and Gentry were not the 
Church in Arch-bifhop Abbots days before Bifhop Laud. 

As 



(i*9) 

As to the Reafons of their accufations, and the publifhing the Ar- 
ticles for Toleration in order to the Sp. and Fr. Match, &c. I pais 
them by. Butbecaufe you may fay fome fuch think of me as you do 
of D. M for what I fay in my fearchfor the Schifmaticki, I only add, 
i. That I hope we may tranfcribe mens own words, 2. And may judge 
that there is fome difference between the Bifhops that judged the Pope 
Antichrift, &c. and thofe that would have us as the way to unity, to 
obey him as Patriarch of the Weft> and principium unitatis, and the firft 
6 or 8 General Councils, and that fay our concord muft be in obey- 
ing HnHmCollegiHrnTafiorum, ruling the whole Church p er liter as for ma- 
tiu, and that fay the Roman Church is a true Church, but fo are none 
of the Reformed that have not Bifhops, and a continued fucceflive Or- 
dination by fuch- 



A Copy 



t *?o ) 



A Copy of a Letter written by Mr. Lewis Du Moulin 
to the Worthy Dr. Tho. Coxe } With the Drs. An- 
fwer occafioned by fome Reports that concern- 
ed Dr. Lewis Du Moulin. 



Worthy Sir, 

KNowing the natural inclination you have to oblige all men and the fer- 
ticular experience 1 have of your unwearied goodnefs to my per f on 
and family did incourage me to write both before and now ^ The occafion 
of both was the Reports fpread abroad of my Father , being informed you 
had made him the objeel of your Care during his ficknefs, 1 rejoyced that 
Pr evidence had ordered it fo that a P erf on of your approved worth and In- 
tegrity was concerned about him- J {hall not trouble you with the Relations 
Fame has brought into this Country, but (liallonly defire to tyowhowhedied'. 
Was there any advantage taken of his weahnefs of body or mind ; How far 
did his Reported Recantation extend? Reach* d it to any material thing of his 
Tenets, or only in reference to perfonal Reflections *, This is what is hum- 
bly defired by } 

Honoured Sir y 

Tour moft Humble and obliged Servant, 

. Lewis Du Moulin. 

From my Houfe at Malton 
in Torkjhirc, Otlober 
the 7^. 1680. 



The 






( i9i ) 
The Drs. Anfwcr to Mr. Lew's Du Moulin. 



Sir, 

I Had not delayed to return an Anfwer to your fir fl Letter, had I known 
how to direct mine to you, which indeed 1 had forgotten how to do '-, 
This is therefore to' let- yon know that your Father (my honoured Friend) 
Dr. Du Moulin, Dyed as he had Livedo a truly pons man, agreeX hater 
of the Romifh Superjfition, and of fo much of the Englifh Ceremonies as 
he thought approached thofe of Rome ', He loved all good men of what per- 
fwafion [oever, agreeing in the Fundamentals of the Proteftant Religion. 
When feme worthy and Learned men did on his Death bed intimate to him 
that he had fain too heavy upon many Pious and Learned men of the Church 
of England : He profeffed himfelf never to have born any mdice in hit 
heart againft the P erf on of any of them, but that his intention was only to 
blame them for having too much gratified the Enemies of the true Proteftant 
Religion, by their condefcentitns to them, and their too great compliances 
with them : He never recanted nor retraced ahy thing material that he had 
Profeffed and Printed of late years ; if he had ufed any fharp expreffions, 
or by any reflections given any offence to any truly pious man, he heartily 
prayed their pardon, and as heartily forgave all men, as he de fired them 
to forgive him. And this heh ad often before expreffed to me both in pub* 
lick^ at my Houfe, and in private between himfelf and me, and alfo after 
that fome worthy men had been with him, which gave occafion to this dtf- 
courfe. This for your fatisfattion is with truth and fmcerity attefted bf 

Tour Affectionate Friend 

Tho. Coxa 

London, Ottob. 29. 



POST- 




POSTSCRIPT. 

Five Additional Notices to the Reader. ' 

THere are fome things of which I thought meet to add this no- 
tice to the Reader. 

I. That I am more alienated from Conformity in the point of 
^ffent 9 Confent and Vfe , in denying Chriftendom to all Children 
who have no Godfathers and Godmothers, and excluding the Pa- 
rents from that Office, by fome late Observations which ray re- 
tirednefs kept me unacquainted with : I am requefted by fome 
poor People to Baptize their Children : I tell them the ParifhMi- 
jiifters muft do it. They anfwer me, That they cannot have them 
Baptized by the Parifh Minifters, becaufe they are poor; and can 
neither pay the Curate nor the Godfathers : Task them, Cannot yen get 
Godfathers without money : They fay, No: No body will be Godfather 
to their Children for nothing? Whereupon enquiring into the cafe, 
1 am informed, that among the poor it is become a trade, to be 
hired perfons to be Godfathers and Godmothers ; and fome that 
have not money mud leave their Children unbaptized, and till 
lately, Popifh Priefts Baptized many. I am not willing to aggra- 
vate this Hiring, nor the caufes of it, nor that the fame men that 
think Baptifm neceflary to Salvation, ( or as Mr. Dodwell fpeaks, 
to a Covenant right to Salvation) fhould yet fhut out all that have 
not money to hire fuch Covenanters j But I am not Conformable 
to fuch Church-Orders. 

II. Whereas there is a great ftrefs laid on Mr. Rathband's Book 
of the old Nonconforming Doctrine againft the Brorvmfls y as if they 
thought' that meer obedience to the Law required them to forbear 
Preaching when they were filenced, when indeed they only thought, 
i. That it bound them to give up the Temples and Tithes and 
publick maintenance (which are at the Magiftrates difpofe,J 2. And 
to forbear that mmner and thofe circitmftances of their Miniftry as 
no Law of God in Nature or Scripture do oblige them to, but 

will 



( l 93 ) 

will do more hurt than good •, I have now for fuller fatisfa&ion, 
here added the Teftimony of his Son concerning his judgment snd 
practice : who nineteen years had his liberty in Lancashire to Preach . 
publickly, in a Chappel, and after that in Northumberland* and 
no wonder if the diforders of Brovpnifm that would have deprived 
them of all fuch liberty were oppofed. I have perufed Mr. Rath- 
band's Book (written by fome others,) and I find nothing in it that 
I confent not to 7 but defire him that would underltand it to read 
the Book it felf. 

Mr. Rathband's Letter to me is as followeth. 

- Reverend 5#V, 

WHereas Doftor Stillingfleet in a late Book of his hath 
alledged a Book publijhed by my Father, to prove that 
Preaching contrary to our Eftablifhed Laws is contrary to the 
Dottrine of all the Nonconformifts in former times y I aJfureyou f 
Sir, that my Father is not to be reckoned in that number ; for 
he exercifed his Miniftry, though contrary, to the Law, for 
many years at a Chappel in Lancalhire , and after he was fi- 
lenced he Preached in private, as he had opportunity and the 
times would bear ; of which I my felf was fometime a witnefs. 
Afterward, upon the invitation of a Gentleman, he exercifed 
his Miniftry at Belfliam in Northumberland, for about a year, 
and from thence he removed to Owingham in the fame Coun- 
ty, where he Preached alfo about a year, till being filenced 
there, he retired into private as formerly. This I thought ex- 
pedient to fignifie to you, and you may make what ufe of it you 
fleafe, for what is written here fha/l be owned by 

SIR, Tours in all Chriftian refpefts, 

William Rathband. 



London, April 2. 
1681. 



Cc (Vk 



( *94r ) 

(He is a Grave and worthy Nonconforming eje&ed Minifter, li- 
ving ufually in High-gate.) His Father read part of the Common- 
Prayer, and kept in as aforefaid. 

And I thank Do&or Stillingfleet for fo full a Vindication of 
fuch old Nonconformifts againlt the Accufations of their Profe- 
cutors. 

III. When my Book was almoft Printed, I received the Manu- 
fcript.of a faithful Learned ejedted Minifter, in which, he mani- 
fefteth the fallacy of Do&or Stilling fleets Allegations of Hiftory 
for the Antiquity of Diocefan Bifhops, and fully proveth that for 
the firft three hundred years the Biihops were Congregational and 
Parochial, and that with fo'full evidence, as that out of Strabo and o- 
ther Geographers hefheweth that many of their Seats were but about 
four Miles from one another, as our Parifh Churches are ^ and he 
tonfuteth what is faid againft it. And he (heweth the Doctors 
grofs abufe of Hiftory, to prove thatBifhops needed not the Peo- 
ples confent, and proveth that the Peoples choice or confent was 
neceflary by the conftant judgment of the Churches. 

But this Book is of fo great worth, that I will not difhonour it 
by making it an Appendix to mine, but intend to make To bold 
with the Author,* as to publifh it by it felf. 

i. As a fuller Confutation to Do&or Stillingfleet. 

2. As a full Anfwer to Mr. DodwPs Letters on that fubjeft •, 

And $. As a Confirmation of my full proof of the famethings* 
in my Treatife of Epifcopacy. 

IV. And if any will receive that from a Conformift, which he 
will not receive from fuch a one as I, he may read, 

i. Our full and faithful Vindication by a Beneficed Minifter, and 
a Regular fon of the Church, Called A Companionate Confideration of 
the Cafe of the Nonconformifts : I am not fo happy as to know the 
Author, but he confirmeth my former Judgment, that a great part 
of the PafTive Conformifts are moderate worthy men, with whom 
we fliould earneftly endeavour as near and fait a coalition as is polfible 
to be had by lawful means* 

2. And either the fame hand, or fuch another Conformift, hath 
written Reflections on Dottor Stillingfleet, in which the like candor 
and charity appear eth, though with fome excefs of kindnefs to me* 

Vo With 



"II 



V 



95 ) 



V. With this Defence agamlt Doftor SiitUngfleit, I zt oiice pub* 
blifh in another Volume, An Apology fir the Nonconformist Preach- 
ing, with an Anfwer to a multitude of their Accufers, and Reafons 
to prove that it is the Bifhops and Conformifts great Duty andln- 
terefi to feek their Reftoration. Which is the molt material part 
of the Confutation of Do&or Stillingfleet, who would perfuade us 
that our Preaching is a fin, and make us guilty of filencing our 
felves. 



FINIS. 






Be ! JatelyPinrteJ r ?^vil Simmons, at the 
1 CoS at the Weft-end of St. Pauls.. 



Three 



i. v^Hurch-Hiftory of the Government of Bifhops and their 
V^-/ Councils abbreviated ? Including the Chief part of 
the Government of Chriftian Princes and Popes, and a true account 
of the moft troubling Controverfies and Herefies til! the Reforma- 
tien. Written for the ufe efpecially of them ^ i. Who are igno- 
rant or mifinformed of the ftate of the Ancient Churches. 2. Who 
cannot read many and great Volumes. $. Who think that 
the Univerfal Church muft have one vifible Soveraign, Perfonal 
or Collective, Pope or General Councils. 4. Who would know 
whether Patriarchs, Diocefans, and their Councils, have been, or 
muft: be the Cure of Herefies andSchifms., 5. Who would know the 
truth about the great Herefies which liave divided the Chriftian 
World, efpecially the Donatifts, Ncvatiaw, Ariam, Macedonians > Ne- 
Jlorians y Entychians, Monothelites> &c. 

2. A Treatiie of Epifcopacy ; Confuting by Scripture, Reafon, 
and the Churches Teftimony, that fort*>f Diocefan Churches, Prela- 
cy, and Government, which cafteth out the Primitive Church Spe- 
cies, Epifcopacy, Miniftry and Discipline, and confoundeth the Chri- 
ftian World by Corruption, Ufurpation , Schifm, and Perfection. 
Meditated in the Year, 1640, when the Et-catera Oath was impofed. 
Written 1671. and call by. Publifhed 1680. by the importunity of 
our Superiours, who demand the Reafons of our Nonconformity. 

3. A Moral Prognostication, 1. What fhall befall the Church on 
Earth, till their Concord, by the Reftitution of their Primitive pu- 
rity, fimplicity, and Charity. 2. How that Restitution is like to be 
made, (if ever) and what (hall befall them thenceforth unto the End, 
in that Golden Age of Love. All three by Rich. Baxter. 

4. Memorabilia: or, The moft Remarkable PafTages and Counfels, 
Colle&ed out ofthefeveral Declarations and Speeches that have beenj 




2 ' ^ n ^*nt, "1680. Reduced under four Heads-, i 
"ligu 
-nis. By Edward Cooke y of the Middlc.T*mplt> Efqi 



his 

laft 

Of the Prote- 



wntten Riigica, 2. Of Popery. 3. Of Liberty and Property, &c. 4. Of 
and charit v - «-~i. *- » -e +*— ,.1,, «. , r^